Big 3 look tired;bench needs to play more

Red2 · Post #1 » by **Red2** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:51 pm

at the end of the raptors game there was one play where Bosh drove baseline and easily dunked. Garnett sort of waved at him as he went by but he was out of position and never made a move to cut off the baseline. When I saw that I thought" wow, KG must be really tired". In addition to missing Posey and Rondo not being able to contain anyone, Doc now has the additional problem of wearing down the big 3. I think we need to be willing to lose some games to develop our bench. tony allen is coming along and I would love to see pruitt get some minutes- Ditto for Leon and Big baby. Even scal brought something to the party against the raptors. If Doc doesn't rest the big 3 we will get wiped out in the playoffs . OUr defense focuses on Garnett. If he can't play with high energy then we're in real trouble defensively

Celtics_85 · Post #2 » by **Celtics_85** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:08 pm

I remember a point in the game where the bench was playing well and building on their lead, and Doc takes them out and brings in the starters who lose the lead that the bench was building on. I was kind of annoyed when this happened and even more when they lost the lead they had. If your bench is hot and pulling away, why would you pull them out? :nonono:

DorfonCeltics · Post #3 » by **DorfonCeltics** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:14 pm

Well KG is playing exactly 3 minutes less per game than his career average so I'm not sure if he's tired exactly. Paul and Ray are both playing around .5 minutes more than their career averages so you might be able to make a case for them but even there it's a stretch.

I think Doc has been managing their minutes pretty well this year. Does everyone remember how many minutes the Big 3 played in November. It's going to take the whole season to average out but I'm willing to be all three of the Big 3 end up playing less minutes per game then their career average.

tombattor · Post #4 » by **tombattor** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:37 pm

Celtics_85 wrote:I remember a point in the game where the bench was playing well and building on their lead, and Doc takes them out and brings in the starters who lose the lead that the bench was building on. I was kind of annoyed when this happened and even more when they lost the lead they had. If your bench is hot and pulling away, why would you pull them out?

Well that's because every player can only play so many minutes straight. If a player like Big Baby plays 12~15 minutes straight, he won't be as effective. That's why they don't just play the starters the first 35 minutes and see where you are then put the subs in, depending on the score.

Celtics_85 · Post #5 » by **Celtics_85** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:48 pm

No it was more that Doc thought it was time to bring back the starters and disrupted the flow of the game. The bench was not in that long to get tired, so it was a bad move. If the bench stopped this momentum then you take them out. You don't disrupt the flow of the game in any way until that momentum stops. Just like in the last quarter of the Sixers game, Doc didn't stop the flow by bringing back the starters.

Datruth345 · Post #6 » by **Datruth345** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:50 pm

the minutes are fine.....

MaxwellSmart · Post #7 » by **MaxwellSmart** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:14 pm

Celtics_85 wrote:I remember a point in the game where the bench was playing well and building on their lead, and Doc takes them out and brings in the starters who lose the lead that the bench was building on. I was kind of annoyed when this happened and even more when they lost the lead they had. If your bench is hot and pulling away, why would you pull them out?

You are exactly right about this....he did the same thing in the 2nd Washington game....He felt he had to bring in Ray Allen at a certain point-and the starters got blown away 25-6 to end the game...if he had just left the bench in for say 2 more minutes,that game was over!

Post #8 » by **darrendaye** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:18 pm

I think KG's minutes are fine. If anything, perhaps KG has been revving his engines a bit too high in recent games in response to the team's lackluster play.

I'm presently of the mind that Pierce's minutes are too high. I think of the Big 3, Pierce's role is the most critical and requires, perhaps, the greatest expense of energy. IMO, he has to be the second best defender on the court. And he has been playing good defense. He also is the team's most dependable and efficient half-court scorer, when he is slashing and getting to the free throw line. And that surely takes a toll.

Ray Allen is what he is. He seems to be commiting to the defensive side, but it's never going to be a strength. His offense is predicated, primarily, from moving without the ball to open spots along the perimeter. Outside of normal wear and tear, I don't consider Ray Allen's playing time to be overly taxing on him.

cisco · Post #9 » by **cisco** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:24 pm

Celtics_85 wrote:No it was more that Doc thought it was time to bring back the starters and disrupted the flow of the game. The bench was not in that long to get tired, so it was a bad move. If the bench stopped this momentum then you take them out. You don't disrupt the flow of the game in any way until that momentum stops. Just like in the last quarter of the Sixers game, Doc didn't stop the flow by bringing back the starters.

Agreed. Doc does this a lot, unfortunately. :banghead:

Edit: I forgot to mention that I don't think the whole bench should be playing. I don't want to see Scal in the game unless it is a blowout or every big man is in foul trouble. Big Baby should be playing 20+ minutes a game, at the expense of some of Perk's minutes, some of Posey's minutes at the 4 (especially at the end of games) and all of any minutes Scal might get.

return2glory · Post #10 » by **return2glory** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:56 pm

Red2, I agree. KG looked tired on that play. But I think their minutes are ok. Doc seems to be trying to get KG's minutes down. Pierce played too many minutes though.

IMO, we lost that game because the game strategy was bad. He tried to match up with Toronto, instead of playing our game. I can' remember the last time Pierce played 40+ minutes and didn't go to the line. That shows we weren't aggressive.

The defesne was bad and the execusion down the game was bad. We had a 4 point lead and the ball with about 1:30 left. We were on a fast break and Pierce pulled up for a 3, instead of taking hard to the basket or throwing it down to the post where KG was guarded by Delfino. Pierce made a bad play, shot a 3 with a hand in his face. Instead of having a 6 point lead, The Raptors came back and hit a 3 and cut the lead to 1. Game over. Pierce made a bad play. But it happens.