The good news about Ray Allen

elrod enchilada · Post #1 » by **elrod enchilada** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 8:26 pm

Apparently he has not aged overnight and gone from being a superstar to a merely adequate starter.

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/sports/x939366007

He has been hurt much more than he let on.

Key question: can he actually recover?

Memo to Doc: give Ray the same love you are giving to KG. We need Ray playing like the Ray of last year and years gone by to win the NBA title. Let him sit for however long it takes to get him as close to 100 perecent as he can get. It is more important to have Ray on top of his game in April then to have the home court advantage, if that is what it comes down to.

Hemingway · Post #2 » by **Hemingway** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 9:21 pm

elrod enchilada wrote:Apparently he has not aged overnight and gone from being a superstar to a merely adequate starter.

Come on. Is that really what you think? Hurt or not the guy is a star. He is not putting the team on his shoulders, but come on. The guy is having 20 point games left and right and on the best team in the league.

RoyHobbs · Post #3 » by **RoyHobbs** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 9:24 pm

Anybody remember the thread back around July where some poster advanced a theory that Ray Allen was at greater risk for continued problems with his ankles after his off-season ankle surgery? And the general response on that thread was to attack the poster, insult his intelligence, claim he wasn't a doctor, and generally act like a buffoon towards him?

Well, it looks like that poster was right. Ray isn't himself, and that's largely due to continued problems with his ankles, which haven't healed 100%, even after 10 months. Let's hope this gets better with some rest, but it would certainly seem that any prognostication that Ray was at heightened risk for further ankle problems was dead on.

Post #4 » by **ParticleMan** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 9:24 pm

Hemingway wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Come on. Is that really what you think? Hurt or not the guy is a star. He is not putting the team on his shoulders, but come on. The guy is having 20 point games left and right and on the best team in the league.

i think he was sarcastically referring to what some other people have been saying on this board.

i don't think ray has lost any ability when healthy. i'm just worried he's lost the ability to STAY healthy.

elrod enchilada · Post #5 » by **elrod enchilada** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 10:14 pm

I think Ray's play has been dramatically below his career standard. He is no all-star this year. I don't really care how it is characterized; star, average starter, whatever. I want Ray back to his career standard. I think our chances of winning 17 probably depend upon it.

campybatman · Post #6 » by **campybatman** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 10:46 pm

I'm of the opinion that Ray maybe should come off the bench and have Tony start instead at shooting guard. This doesn't mean his [Ray] minutes have to dip and he should feel removed from the Big Three. Tony has improved on his outside range and is one of the few players on the roster who can create his own shot and penetrate. He isn't a bad free throw shooter and is a better defender than Ray. You prefer to see your best players and highest paid players start for that matter. And I'm a Ray Allen fan. But, perhaps I see differently than others here. I see a player that doesn't seem to play well or as good when he and Kevin and Paul are all playing together on the floor. I mean he can't get into a rhythm nor can he find consistency with his attempts. He looks like he attacks more when he's alone on the floor or playing with the second unit. Whereas, Garnett and Pierce seem to function a lot better as a tandem regardless if Ray's present or absent. If Kevin is absent, then Paul and Ray look like a see-saw when scoring but not like Paul and Antoine.

Then again, Ray could just have struggled during the first half of this season. I don't know. I might be alone in believing Ray just looks like a different player this season. It could be age or an adjustment period to a new team. But, if you're an elite player in this league. It shouldn't matter that much. Ray looked like he should be in that Dallas game but the offense ran initially through him for the game which lends support for my earlier point about how better effective in a game Ray can be on the Celtics. His touches have to come in succession and he must be more determined or aggressive with his points and not be only an outside threat. Become the fierce Thunder Dan Majerle and not the older and one dimensional Majerle who stayed on the perimeter.

Jammer · Post #7 » by **Jammer** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 10:57 pm

Madness.

Ray Allen is one of the top four shooting guards in the Eastern Conference.

If he doesn't take 6.6 less shots per game than last season, which also nets him 1.8 more free throws per game, guess what, he's the best shooting guard in the East.

Ray is not a bench player.

He leads the Celtics in minutes per game, who at 36-8, have one of the best records in history at this point.

grantlongforpresident · Post #8 » by **grantlongforpresident** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 3:22 am

madness is right.

by the way, the fact that he is injured is not good news... although i know what you are trying to say.

Rocky5000 · Post #9 » by **Rocky5000** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 4:48 am

Haha. Well if what we've seen is the Celtics with Ray Allen battling injuries, the rest of the league better be ready for an even more formidable Celtics team. I will say that so far this year, KG and Pierce have been more consistent than Ray, but I thought most of his problems were due to making adjustments to playing with a new team. Hopefully he is truly getting back to 100% health for the second half push. If he needs more time he should take it and let Tony and Eddie gain some experience while he heals.

billfromBoston · Post #10 » by **billfromBoston** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 5:02 am

RoyHobbs wrote:Anybody remember the thread back around July where some poster advanced a theory that Ray Allen was at greater risk for continued problems with his ankles after his off-season ankle surgery? And the general response on that thread was to attack the poster, insult his intelligence, claim he wasn't a doctor, and generally act like a buffoon towards him?

Well, it looks like that poster was right. Ray isn't himself, and that's largely due to continued problems with his ankles, which haven't healed 100%, even after 10 months. Let's hope this gets better with some rest, but it would certainly seem that any prognostication that Ray was at heightened risk for further ankle problems was dead on.

...I'd say that's a gross overstatement based off the content in the article...Ray HAD ankle surgery and was told that it WOULD take a certain period of time to get back up to speed...when he was traded to the Celtics he decided that he'd bury the "slow-and-steady" approach for the sake of riding the hype and expectations of the team...

..."continued problems" insinuates that Allen has some type of chronic rehabilitating condition...the context of the article was that Allen was on a projected recovery timetable and didn't divulge that for the sake of the team and its expectations...

...also, I'd like to CONTINUALLY point out that Ray Allen is shooting the same from 3pt range as his career average and is shooting a HIGHER percentage of his 2-point FGs this year...his shooting "woes" have been a byproduct of the RATIO of 3's/2's...combined with the decrease in overall shots pretty much tells the story of his season...

Ray Allen will be fine...people are inventing issues...

floyd · Post #11 » by **floyd** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 2:47 pm

RoyHobbs wrote:Anybody remember the thread back around July where some poster advanced a theory that Ray Allen was at greater risk for continued problems with his ankles after his off-season ankle surgery? And the general response on that thread was to attack the poster, insult his intelligence, claim he wasn't a doctor, and generally act like a buffoon towards him?

Well, it looks like that poster was right. Ray isn't himself, and that's largely due to continued problems with his ankles, which haven't healed 100%, even after 10 months. Let's hope this gets better with some rest, but it would certainly seem that any prognostication that Ray was at heightened risk for further ankle problems was dead on.

You called it man - you're awesome. Don't hurt your arm patting yourself on the back.

RoyHobbs · Post #12 » by **RoyHobbs** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 2:58 pm

floyd wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

You called it man - you're awesome. Don't hurt your arm patting yourself on the back.

I take no pleasure in Ray's continued injury problems, which may or may not be over now. However, based upon the constant flames, insults, and all-around buffoonery exhibited regarding this particular issue, yeah, I've got no problem saying I was right. None of that is to say the Allen trade was a bad one; Danny did the right thing in surrounding he and Paul with veteran talent to win now. However, I would not be surprised in the least to see these issues continue to spring up for the rest of the season, and perhaps beyond.

DorfonCeltics · Post #13 » by **DorfonCeltics** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 3:47 pm

floyd wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

You called it man - you're awesome. Don't hurt your arm patting yourself on the back.

I wouldn't even know Roy Hobbs was alive if it weren't for you guys quoting him. Ah the ignore button is a lovely thing.

Post #14 » by **sully00** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 7:52 pm

...also, I'd like to CONTINUALLY point out that Ray Allen is shooting the same from 3pt range as his career average and is shooting a HIGHER percentage of his 2-point FGs this year...his shooting "woes" have been a byproduct of the RATIO of 3's/2's...combined with the decrease in overall shots pretty much tells the story of his season...

This is a big part of things and another is the lack of another ball handler. I really thought Ray would excel as a primary ball handler but he really struggles when Rondo goes out of the game. He just flat out dribbles too much trying to create his own offense.

Obviously there is some doubt whether this team will add another ball handler prior to the post season, but if they do not they have got do something to get Ray some looks coming off screens and kick start his midrange game. His 3pt shooting opens things up for everyone else but there is no reason it has to be at the expense of his total game. I also think Ray has a little more hop in him on the defensive end when the offense is clicking.

As far as the injury issue I can't possibly see how Ray being able to play effectively through essentially the last 3 months of his rehab would be make you feel he is now more likely to be injured.

billfromBoston · Post #15 » by **billfromBoston** » Tue Feb 5, 2008 7:26 am

sully00 wrote:
...also, I'd like to CONTINUALLY point out that Ray Allen is shooting the same from 3pt range as his career average and is shooting a HIGHER percentage of his 2-point FGs this year...his shooting "woes" have been a byproduct of the RATIO of 3's/2's...combined with the decrease in overall shots pretty much tells the story of his season...

This is a big part of things and another is the lack of another ball handler. I really thought Ray would excel as a primary ball handler but he really struggles when Rondo goes out of the game. He just flat out dribbles too much trying to create his own offense.

Obviously there is some doubt whether this team will add another ball handler prior to the post season, but if they do not they have got do something to get Ray some looks coming off screens and kick start his midrange game. His 3pt shooting opens things up for everyone else but there is no reason it has to be at the expense of his total game. I also think Ray has a little more hop in him on the defensive end when the offense is clicking.

As far as the injury issue I can't possibly see how Ray being able to play effectively through essentially the last 3 months of his rehab would be make you feel he is now more likely to be injured.

...I couldn't agree more with what you said...

Allen has really sacrafices a lot of his game for the sake of ball-handling and the team needs to add a PG not just for spelling Rondo but for allowing Allen to move without the ball full-time...the playmaking elements of his game are limiting his most dangerous weapon, mid-range scoring...you don't see Rip Hamilton breaking it down from the perimeter very often, he is ranging around the court as a designated assassin...

...good news is that the team knows this now and is working on it....

bruno sundov · Post #16 » by **bruno sundov** » Tue Feb 5, 2008 2:39 pm

This is exactly what I was fighting with Greg Dickerson the morning after they traded for him on WEEI. I was concerened about his anckles and how far he had to come to contribute.

The bigger point is why didn't DA know about this? That baffles me. They just leave it up to the player to say hey I'm hurting. Don't they have Dr.'S and medical records for that... :crazy:

billfromBoston · Post #17 » by **billfromBoston** » Tue Feb 5, 2008 3:08 pm

bruno sundov wrote:This is exactly what I was fighting with Greg Dickerson the morning after they traded for him on WEEI. I was concerened about his anckles and how far he had to come to contribute.

The bigger point is why didn't DA know about this? That baffles me. They just leave it up to the player to say hey I'm hurting. Don't they have Dr.'S and medical records for that...

...do you think the President of the United States tells the country that the end of the world is coming? That's about the equivalent of Boston sports with fans of this team...Ainge knew, but there was no benefit to divulging it to an over-reactionary public who would nit-pick the entire situation to death without having any of the intimate details themselves....

A decision makers job is to decide what the best course of action is, not to have complete transparency with the constituents of the fan-base...

bruno sundov · Post #18 » by **bruno sundov** » Tue Feb 5, 2008 4:06 pm

So what you are saying is that, DA knew about how bad Ray's anckles were and traded for him anyway. In doing so giving up one of his greatest chips to possibly get KG? That makes no sense at all.

He also didn't know how hurting Wally and Raef were when he traded for them. So there is a (habit),can't think of a better word now, of him doing this. Do you see why I think he had no idea how hurting Ray truly was?