For The Love of God...No Posey at PF!!!!

[reggielewis]

I strongly dislike a Posey/PP/Ray/House lineup, regardless of the C[/quote
how can that be judged since pj hasnt played one game for us? If Pj is half the player he was last yr or the yr before, tha I want him in the game because he ets great position

[UGA Hayes]

I'd like to see less Posey altogether. I think it has been underreported that he really hasn't been playing very well with the exception of a few games

[jfs1000d]

The key is getting KG some more postups and also having Pierce post up more. Probably with Sam CAssell here that is a better option.

I hate POsey at the 4. We get killed on the boards and KG is ineffective at center. We get no offensive rebounding with POsey at the 4 and the defensive rebounding is subpar. Play Davis at Center and KG at the PF. That would work.

[joneb]

I agree that Posey at the 4 is a liability in many ways. Not just the fact that the team becomes more perimeter-oriented with that lineup, but they also get hammered on the boards. Against certain opponents, it might be advisable to use Posey at the 4 depending on defensive matchups, but for the most part I agree that it's not to our advantage.

And if I could make another constructive criticism about Doc's lineups without going OT too much, it would be his practice of resting Perkins and KG at the same time. I guess with PJ Brown coming aboard it won't be as much of a problem going forward, but the Powe/Davis frontcourt was often too short to effectively patrol the paint. This tandem, though fierce as warriors, were often overmatched due to their lack of length. I would like to see a rotation that allows for either Perk or KG to be in there at all times, barring foul problems.

[celticpride17]

horrible coaching by doc rivers he took out perkins with 2 minutes to go in 3rd quarter after playing one of his best games of the year at that point he had 17 points 8 rebounds and 4 blocked shots. we had built up a17 point lead early in the 4th quarter,then the bobcats started to play catch up,even tom heinson said we cant keep doing one and done (hint: doc bring perkins back in because we need someone to get some rebounds!) well doc waits until there are 2 minutes to go in the game to bring back perk,as soon as he comes in perkins knocks the ball loose from the bobcats kg picks up the ball and starts a fastbreak for a layup! theni beleive the next time the bobcats came down perkins got the REBOUND . sometimes i think doc forgets the players on the bench. he did this in another game ehere he took out garnett with 2 minues to go and a12 point lead?in the 3rd quarter then didnt bring back until the other team tied te game with 7 minutes to go in the game.

[celticfan42487]

" Red would of brought a guy like him in for the final four minutes soley because he gets after rebounds. That would be the only reason."

A Tommy quote about the importance Red put on rebounding at the end of the game.

And we all well know about the attack philosophy of get to the free throw line at the end of the game.

The average free throw goes in 75% of the time. Therefore getting to the free throw is like shooting a jumper at a 56% rate. And that's just random let alone doing it with someone like Pierce or Ray Allen or even Tony Allen.

It's just stupid to not have Perk/Powe/Baby at PF instead of Posey with a lead on the board agaisnt the worst offensive team in the league. And that's what CHAR is without Crash like they are now for the rest of the season.

[threrf23]

To say a condensed version of what I said previously in this thread, I don't think the problem is Posey @ the 4 for X amount of minutes, but more just that the players on the floor have to complement one another well. The idea is to put forth a good combination of shooting/slashing/passing/size/toughness/defense/etc.

Posey is a respectable defender, a decent shooter, but lacks size and toughness which affects team defense, and doesn't slash much or create for others. If you combine him with TA's slashing/defensive grit/playmaking at times and/or Perk's size/toughness and/or Rondo's slashing/passing/grit, Posey @ the 4 can work. If you put him alongside PP/Ray/House our lineup won't defend so well and everything Posey brings to the tble offensively won't really matter because it will have already been brought to the table without him.

[leper-con]

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I don't think we need a pure post scorer per-say, because both Powe and Davis are such effective rebounders. They also are good finishers, so they keep interior defenses honest. Plus with KG being such a phenomenal passer at the high post, interior passes to Powe, Baby, and Perk make for high percentage shots on their own, without the need for much creating.

Besides all that though ... who exactly was the low block scorer available that you'd hoped the C's would pick up?

This team is still incomplete but as far as one year turn arounds go it is probably the best I've ever seen. Danny will address this weakness in the off season. We need a long athletic defender whom has a little post game to help this team get some easy hoops. The problem with Baby and Powe is they are undersized. They are great finds but they bring second round draft pick issues.

[leper-con]

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garnett could finally start playing down low more and using his quickness to his advantage. that is what i would like to see. his fadeway out of the post is far and way the most reliable way for this team to get a bucket in the post.

I think come play off time KG will work closer tot he basket and we will see much more isolation plays taking advantage of PP and R Allen.

[billy242]

...I thought we were past this with the emergence of Powe/Davis as consistent contributors...

When Posey is at the 4 spot this team turns into an entirely perimeter oriented attack...when the 17-25 foot shots aren't falling the team becomes offensively (Please Use More Appropriate Word) and basically has to prevent the other team from scoring at all in order to win the game...

The team went about 6-7 minutes in the 4th completely lacking any type of offensive aptitude...it turned an easy game into a nail-biter because the team had ZERO offense...

While this lineup has has limited success in the past it has been an offensive failure far more often than its been a success and that is consistent with the shooting averages that come with perimeter attacks...

No easy baskets, not cuts to the hoop or pick-and-roll and absolutely no 2nd chance points or offensive rebounds to speak of...

Doc takes a lot of criticism, but he usually gets it right eventually...I just thought we were past this little experiment...if he wants to try it for 2-3 minutes to see if its working that's fine, but for the love of god, don't piss away the bulk of the 4th quarter waiting for it to happen...

THIS IS NOT AN EFFECTIVE LINEUP!!!

i'm not crazy about sweeping assessments.

sometimes spreading the floor with Posey at th 4 works.

i remember just as one example that first ORL game where we were down by something like 20 pts and it was only when we went to that lineup that we got back into that game....

it's all about matchups IMO....

it's not my favorite lineup and i really like what Powe and BBD are doing, but sometimes it's the right call.

maybe Doc uses it too much, but i think that has to do with the fact that Posey usually plays good D and maybe Doc likes to lean on the vets a little too often.

[humblebum]

I'd like to see less Posey altogether. I think it has been underreported that he really hasn't been playing very well with the exception of a few games

I disagree here but to a certain extent I DO believe that Posey gets hyped up a bit, especially defensively where he isn't a spectacular on the ball defender. Off the ball though, Posey is really good.

I think that Bill is right and I think that your sentiment really has a lot to do with the fact that Posey is being played OUT OF POSITION. That's the problem with Posey at the 4, he is simply not a 4 in the NBA.

Plus, and I don't think this has been mentioned, Pierce is playing TOO MANY MINUTES! By trusting Davis, Powe, and Perk (and Brown soon potentially) it allows Posey to sub for Pierce which will help to get Pierce down to around 35 minutes a game vs. the 38 or so he's playing now.

The problem is that Doc is in love with "spacing" and "ball movement", two things that the Rondo/Allen/Pierce/Posey/KG group excel at. So Doc tends to fall in love with that group despite the fact it is usually ineffective, inconsistent and soft as heck in the middle. What I don't understand is that KG at the 4 ALREADY creates great spacing when you have Ray and Paul in the game. The starting line up is the Celtics most BALANCED and EFFECTIVE group (Powe and Davis for Perk are also good lineups) and they need to start and FINISH games.

[Fencer reregistered]

The average free throw goes in 75% of the time. Therefore getting to the free throw is like shooting a jumper at a 56% rate. And that's just random let alone doing it with someone like Pierce or Ray Allen or even Tony Allen.

Not your finest arithmetical moment.