OT:the NBA needs it's own Hall of Fame...

[wigglestrue]

Whether or not Cheryl Miller or Drazen Petrovic or Dick Vitale were in the HOF, Adrian Dantley would not have made it in any sooner, and Dennis Johnson would still not be inducted. Having women, internationals, and contributors of all kinds hasn't kept borderline NBA players out of the HOF. Their own borderlineness and the good/bad judgement of the voters has kept them out.

[MyInsatiableOne]

-= original quote snipped =-


Not really. I think Peter Gammons deserves to be in the hall. But I also think Dicky V deserves to be in there because they have both done a lot for their respective sport.

I don't have any gripe about DJ not being in there because I don't think he's a definite HOFer. If it was McHale that's not in it, then it would be another story. One guy, I think is screwed by the voters is Jim Rice. He absolutely deserves to be in there because during his years, he was one of the most feared hitters in baseball. I don't think DJ was ever that.

I do agree with you Rice should absolutely be in the baseball HOF. I also don't have a burning rage that DJ isn't in the hall...COULD he be? Sure. SHOULD he be? I dunno. But I do think if you're going to lower the bar to include Joe Dumars, then DJ absolutely has to be in based on the fact that he was a much better player!

[GuyClinch]

I would imagine that every woman in the Hall is renown in the world of women's basketball. Gauss and Rieman are famous mathematicians, but I wouldn't wager most people on this board know who they are. Should they be kept out of the math hall of fame (if it existed) because math is unpopular?

But it's not called the woman's basketball HOF - its called the basketball HOF. You have to weigh the popularity of the various niche with regards to entry.

Should we give equal weight to the Chinese basketball leagues in the Basketball HOF? Or how bout junior high basketball - maybe we should let some of those kids in. <g>

You can't just place a relatively unpopular sport like Women's basketball on equal footing with mens and they give each "branch" of basketball equal HOF entries.

Why? Because those female HOF players are often NOT FAMOUS in the world of basketball.

The NCAA final this year in woman's basketball scored a 3.0 share - that's around 3 million viewers. The NCAA men's final had 41 million viewers. So like I said we shouldn't be squeezing out NBA players for niche branches of the sport. Men's basketball is more popular - and thus the players in it are more famous. That's just how it is.

When I went to the Tennis HOF in Newport I didn't half the exhibit dedicated to paddle tennis players. Why? Because hardly anyone watches paddle tennis. The reigning 10x paddle tennis championing might be great and all but he sure isn't famous.

Again the OP is right, IMHO. A dedicated NBA HOF is a good idea especially with the dumb title IXing of the basketball HOF.

Pete

[RoyHobbs]

I think the "women in the Hall of Fame" argument is a bit misguided. For all the arguments being presented about how women are keeping deserving male players out of the Hall, that's just not the case. Of the 134 players enshrined, fewer than 10 of them are women (I didn't feel like counting). It's not like the reason DJ isn't in there is because the voters felt they needed to put a woman in in his place.

My bigger problem (as mentioned earlier) is that there are as many coaches (80) and contributors (54) as there are players (134), and certainly more than there are NBA players. That just doesn't feel right to me. Games are won on the court, by players, and they are the ones who deserve the overwhelming majority of the recognition.

[wigglestrue]

My bigger problem (as mentioned earlier) is that there are as many coaches (80) and contributors (54) as there are players (134), and certainly more than there are NBA players. That just doesn't feel right to me. Games are won on the court, by players, and they are the ones who deserve the overwhelming majority of the recognition.

If you feel like doing some counting, figure out what the breakdown is for coaches, i.e., how many are NBA coaches, how many are NCAA men's coaches, how many are NCAA women's coaches, how many are international coaches, how many of the NBA coaches were double inductees as players (not many I'd assume, handful at most, but still).

[floyd]

I would imagine that every woman in the Hall is renown in the world of women's basketball. Gauss and Rieman are famous mathematicians, but I wouldn't wager most people on this board know who they are. Should they be kept out of the math hall of fame (if it existed) because math is unpopular?

But it's not called the woman's basketball HOF - its called the basketball HOF. You have to weigh the popularity of the various niche with regards to entry.

Should we give equal weight to the Chinese basketball leagues in the Basketball HOF? Or how bout junior high basketball - maybe we should let some of those kids in. <g>

You can't just place a relatively unpopular sport like Women's basketball on equal footing with mens and they give each "branch" of basketball equal HOF entries.

Why? Because those female HOF players are often NOT FAMOUS in the world of basketball.

The NCAA final this year in woman's basketball scored a 3.0 share - that's around 3 million viewers. The NCAA men's final had 41 million viewers. So like I said we shouldn't be squeezing out NBA players for niche branches of the sport. Men's basketball is more popular - and thus the players in it are more famous. That's just how it is.

When I went to the Tennis HOF in Newport I didn't half the exhibit dedicated to paddle tennis players. Why? Because hardly anyone watches paddle tennis. The reigning 10x paddle tennis championing might be great and all but he sure isn't famous.

Again the OP is right, IMHO. A dedicated NBA HOF is a good idea especially with the dumb title IXing of the basketball HOF.

Pete

How many times will people have to make the argument that no male player has been squeezed out of the HOF by female players before you stop using it? It makes absolutley no sense. They don't have quotas.

No one said there should be equal representation, but to say since women's basketball isn't particularly popular amongst couch potato sports fans they can't be recognized at all is just chauvinistic.

The NBA wasn't that popular in past decades either. So by your asinine logic of representing by level of fame we should be letting in any mediocre star in the league since clearly they are as famous to the public as Bill Russell was in his day. Get ready for Corey Maggette and Delonte West in the HOF.

As I said earlier, it should not be some popularity contest amongst the general public, but instead as it is, based on an individual's contributions to the sport. Contirbutions can extend beyond ratings.

[7seventynine9]

Yao Ming would eventually make the HOF even if he never plays again. If you do something that alters the basketball world, you get in.

[GuyClinch]

No one said there should be equal representation, but to say since women's basketball isn't particularly popular amongst couch potato sports fans they can't be recognized at all is just chauvinistic.

Oh so NBA fans are 'couch potatoes" are they? LMAO. Way to slide lame attacks onto your weak sauce posts. Women's basketball and it's coaches have been getting in at far to great a pace compared to their popularity.

It's the HALL OF FAME.

Here is the class of 2007..

Phil Jackson
Van Chancellor
Pedro Ferrandiz
Mirko Novosel
Marvin "Mendy" Rudolph
Roy Williams.

Okay so we have guys like Van Chancellor the WNBA Houston Comets coach making the HOF but we can't let in a friggin Finals MVP and 5 times all-star?

Umm okay. Come on how many of those guys did you know off the top of your head?!

What's wrong with electing NBA stars?

How about Artis Gilmore - the guy won an NCAA championship. He averaged 23.2 points in the ABA with 17.1 rebounds. He averaged 20 rebounds and 20 points in his NCAA career!

No it's not friggin Delonte West they will be keeping out of the HOF. It's legit stars in their day like Artis Gimore and Dennis Johnson so we can let in Mirko Novosel...

I don't want to hear about "chauvinism." Women's basketball isn't popular and basketball coaches aren't more important then star players. Any decent coach can tell you that much.

So there we have class of 2007 - no players - a bunch of coaches including a women's coach. That really worth the "hall of fame"? We all know what's really going on here. It's political correctness run amok as usual.

It's not "trendy" enough to let in good players who made good money. We have to let the "little guy" in that no one has heard of. Swell.. That's great if your interested in seeing something else besides the HOF.

Political correctness is dandy if your trying to build a diverse student body for your college. But this is the Hall of Fame..

BTW I'd be willing to pit a group of NBA season ticket holders against a WNBA group any day of the week. Most NBA fans "shock" like to PLAY basketball. That's why so many can't stand the WNBA. Their are rec. league players with more talent..

Pete

[tombattor]

Pete, calm down.

So do you feel like DJ was an absolute HOFer? He's not. Was he ever considered one of the best players of his time? Not at all. He was considered as one of the better players, but not a dominant one and HOF is for dominant players. Yes, I'd like to see DJ in there as well, but it's not an outrage that he's not in. If the player in question is Larry Bird or Bill Russell, then we have a legitimate gripe here. But we're not. We're talking about a player whose career that is borderline HOF. So like most borderline guys, some make it and some don't.

And women's induction into HOF does not hinder an NBA player's chances of getting in, if he were good enough.

So in your mind, who's done more for the game of basketball? Pat Summitt or Dennis Johnson? If you have even a half of a brain, you know the answer.

[GuyClinch]

So do you feel like DJ was an absolute HOFer? He's not. Was he ever considered one of the best players of his time? Not at all.

"Not at all"?

Larry Bird, who was not known for lightly tossing around compliments, called Johnson "the best I've ever played with."

Soo hmm internet fan boy or Larry Bird. Let me think whose basketball judgement I am going with...

He was considered as one of the better players, but not a dominant one and HOF is for dominant players. Yes, I'd like to see DJ in there as well, but it's not an outrage that he's not in. If the player in question is Larry Bird or Bill Russell, then we have a legitimate gripe here. But we're not. We're talking about a player whose career that is borderline HOF. So like most borderline guys, some make it and some don't.

If you want to argue that say DJ or Artis Gilmore wasn't statistically good enough to make the HOF - that's one thing. It seems fairly arbitrary because DJ in his prime WAS considered a great player. By the time he got the C's he wasn't at full speed anymore you know.. He made it to nine straight all-defensive teams. That's just not an easy thing to do in the NBA.

I love Pierce but he has made it to what zero so far? But all this is besides the point.

If you can look at that list of names from the 2007 inductees and HONESTLY in your heart of hearts tell me they had more of an impact on the game of basketball and were more famous then Dennis Johnson or Artis Gilmore then so be it..

But you know damn well you never heard of most those guys. You have to read the little blurb to see who the heck they are.. As has been pointed out the HOF has more coaches and "contributors" then players.

It's the players that play the game - they are the famous ones (at least the men's ones) It's the hall of fame. I say we either let it more of the famous players or we start our own NBA one.

Your welcome to disagree but I don't really follow your argument (if there is one). Your honestly saying DJ isn't a good enough player but Von Chancellor is deserving for leading the Houston Comets?

Pete

[MyInsatiableOne]

Pete, I agree with these points you've made, but it seems like a losing battle, here and at the HOF