NBA playoffs cut to feature the pope

[tombattor]

Psshaw. If you are a student of history it's neither idotic nor foolish to attribute corruption or power tripping to religion. At it's root religion encourages people to suspend their disbelief and trust in something that there is no evidence for.

This kind of thinking is just ripe for abuse. Once your willing to supsend logic for "god" there is no telling what you can get a man or woman to do.

Yes ideas like communism and patriotism have been similiarily abused but none of these concepts even holds a candle to the kind of damage that has been done in the name of religion. It's easily the single most destructive force the world has ever seen..

Look no farther then the simple manipulations used by those folks in Texas if you need a reminder on how its done.

Pete

How short-sighted and bitter can you be? Religion is what it is. You can't attribute everything that's good to it nor can you attribute only the bad parts to it. So because there is something going on in Texas, which you don't agree with, you are ready to dismiss religion as "easily the single most destructive force the world has ever seen"? So is religion killing all those people in Iraq or greed for money? Or maybe you believe that those people in Iraq deserve what they are getting because they are all terrorists and responsible for 911.

How about all those religious groups that help the homeless and orphans? Have you ever done anything like that? In most cases, people who are involved in religion are not the people at the top who are able to abuse the power. Probably over 99% of those people are just believers, who go to church/temple/whatever attend services and go on with their lives.

Maybe you've had a bad experience at church or maybe you are ignorant and these absurd stories make for easy excuse as to why you are not more involved in religion. Either way, it's pretty pathetic.

Just like it's (Please Use More Appropriate Word) to attribute killing and destruction in the name of God, it's just as (Please Use More Appropriate Word) to attribute these human imperfections to religion.

And tell me where you saw all this God loving in NYC because I certainly didn't see it.

[nightstarstolen]

Let me explain myself further:

By relating religion to a state like structure you view it more as the man-made construct that it is. As previous posters stated people will believe blind-folded, opening up possibility of corruption and greed from the herders.

Example 1: The Church takes care of its members. I went to Christian school. There, a priest i know, lived in a 750,000+ house. For that kind of money and stability i would give up my job in a second, and preach to some fools. In fact i debated it on several occasions.

Fact 1: Over the course of human kind so much blood has been spilled in the name of religion, from the Holy Crusades, to the 9/11 attacks.

Fact 2: Lets go back to days of Egyptians, who believed in the gods who provided sunlight, harvest, sea storms, war, love, etc. We now laugh at some of their beliefs and ideals. We now provide nutrients for plants to grow. Science will provide further answers.

The world is evolving, and we are at the dawn of a new technological era. Religion will disappear in the next 1000 years. Choose to be part of the: Shepherds or Flock.

[GuyClinch]

How short-sighted and bitter can you be? Religion is what it is. You can't attribute everything that's good to it nor can you attribute only the bad parts to it. So because there is something going on in Texas, which you don't agree with, you are ready to dismiss religion as "easily the single most destructive force the world has ever seen"? So is religion killing all those people in Iraq or greed for money? Or maybe you believe that those people in Iraq deserve what they are getting because they are all terrorists and responsible for 911.

The problem with religion from a larger scale is that's its a divisive force. From a more abstract point of view what you have in the vast majority of world wide conflicts are different groups of believers who are fighting about the variations of their beliefs.

Some of the basic ones of course were the Crusades (still waging in the minds of the Muslims and some Christians). The Muslim religion properly understood is an aggressive prophletizing religion which seeks both to grow and dominate. In fairness the Christian religion is not really much different. Thus their is a clash. The Muslim religion was created after Christanity as a direct foil of it - so this is not surprising.

I could go into the concepts of Sharia, and so on. But suffice to say MOST of the major conflicts today are directly associated with different religious factions warring. This is why of course empires like the Russians and the current Chinese fought so hard to surpress religion.

Again its not so much the direct teaching of the religions themselves but the uncessary differences they create. It's divisive. The recent conflicts in Africa (which caused UNTOLD deaths - I mean the numbers are STAGGERING). The Arab Sudanese government effectively wiping out the ethnic african groups.. The Dafur problems also are tied up in religion but the case is a little messier.

But religions need not be particularly different to cause conflicts - look at the problems between the the Catholics and the Church of England in Ireland. This religious war has the source of much terrorisim.

The conflicts between the seemingly identical (from the outside) Sunni's and ****. And then of course we have the classic Jewish vs. Muslim conflicts.

Like I said I don't want to get into "blaming" specific religions. As they all have their so called "good parts" or at least "good ideas" intermixed in them. But the overall effect is that people are divided.

It becomes far easier to dehumanize the enemy when you are going after someone 'different." And everyone is different based on WHOLLY ABRITRARY designations. Basically people for the most part believe whatever their parents 'taught' them at a very young age. And then carry these differences forward throughout life defending them to death..

If instead of lifting this idea of "oh it's religious - it's great" people examined the nature of religion and realized it's inherent likelyhood of both harm and abuse in blindly following myths we would be alot better off.

Like I said nationalism has been a huge source of death and tragedy - but religion far outstrips its death toll..

I am not even going to get into how all the major religions prohibit birth control in an era of incredible overpopulation.. That right there will probably cause more deaths (via food shortage) then any dictator ever did.

Maybe ten years ago I used to think like you. But mythology as a world wide political force is a real problem in the world. When guys like George Bush or the president of Iran make decisons based on "faith" disaster follows.

Pete

[tombattor]

Pete, you are right in that there have been many wars, lost lives, and destructions in the name of religion. However, I tend to believe that those are the people that would have fought each other anyways. In Europe, as you know, there have been countless wars, fights, etc. over power and land. But for the most part, they all believe in the same religion and the proximity to each other forces them to interact and humans being violent and greedy creatures, those interactions often led to wars.

Another example, in Asia, before the introduction of Christianity, most countries were either Buddhist or some derivative of it. However, there have been countless wars, invasions and corruptions. They could have called those wars Holy Wars, as the Westerners conveniently used as their excuses, but what they were was simply wars over land and power. It doesn't matter if you use religion as an excuse or not, the bottom line is, it is what it is.

You gave the conflict between Jewish and Muslims in the middle east as an example of religion causing conflicts, which has now escalated to Muslim countries disliking the US and Israel. However, those hatred/conflicts didn't start because the US some how prefers Jewish belief over Muslim belief. It's because of the rich and powerful Jewish lobbists in the US forces the US to stand behind Israel 100% in middle east conflict, not some crusade or whatever. Same goes for Iraq war. We're in there for oil/money, not to free Iraqis, for democracy or to avenge 911. Religion is just another excuse used for the destruction caused by greed and hatred.

Same goes for whatever is going on in Texas. If what it appears is true, then it's the people who are running the compound that want to hoard all the women, power, etc., not because any of them actually spoke to God or their bible told them to do. Religion was an easy and convenient way for them to create the environment.

[nightstarstolen]

You gave the conflict between Jewish and Muslims in the middle east as an example of religion causing conflicts, which has now escalated to Muslim countries disliking the US and Israel. However, those hatred/conflicts didn't start because the US some how prefers Jewish belief over Muslim belief. It's because of the rich and powerful Jewish lobbists in the US forces the US to stand behind Israel 100% in middle east conflict, not some crusade or whatever. Same goes for Iraq war. We're in there for oil/money, not to free Iraqis, for democracy or to avenge 911. Religion is just another excuse used for the destruction caused by greed and hatred.

The only part of that paragraph, that is accurate is the last sentence.

All the Muslim countries in middle east are stuck in a third-world state, waging wars, committing terror, and living very poor and uncivilized lives. I wont even mention how the Muslim religion treats women.

The Muslim religion at its root, is very aggressive and believes that all Jewish people should be killed, and all Christians converted. Extremism is often taught to children 6-9 years old, so they grow up believing crashing into towers will give them eternal bliss.

Israel is the complete opposite. Very highly technological advance, as well as intellectually. Beautiful adaptation to the harsh lands, and people that just want to be left alone, and not blown up.

Thats why the US supports Israel, not the lobbyist idea you put out.

[tombattor]

Thats why the US supports Israel, not the lobbyist idea you put out.

This really shows how little you know.

I don't want to get into all the politics in Middle East for obvious reasons, but you are so misinformed, it's not even funny. Yes, you are right in that Israelis have values closer to us, the Westerners. However, to say that a Western (Christianity-based) belief is more right than Muslim belief is being ignorant and short-sighted. Which is what I've been saying about you from the beginning.

Please don't think for a second that the US is backing Israel for Muslim women's rights or anything like that because you can't be more wrong. That's just US media trying to justify their actions to the public.

[tombattor]

All the Muslim countries in middle east are stuck in a third-world state, waging wars, committing terror, and living very poor and uncivilized lives. I wont even mention how the Muslim religion treats women.

The Muslim religion at its root, is very aggressive and believes that all Jewish people should be killed, and all Christians converted. Extremism is often taught to children 6-9 years old, so they grow up believing crashing into towers will give them eternal bliss.

From this, I can tell that you don't live near a big city, but probably a remote area surrounded only by white people. Because no one that lives in a big city can be this ignorant and (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

Yes, all Muslims want to do is kill Jewish people.

[nightstarstolen]

-= original quote snipped =-


From this, I can tell that you don't live near a big city, but probably a remote area surrounded only by white people. Because no one that lives in a big city can be this ignorant and (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

Yes, all Muslims want to do is kill Jewish people.

Yes, and other groups too. Not just jews.

Several Recent Cases

Recently, month ago maybe, muslim man runs inside a jewish school full of kids, and starts shooting up the place for Ala. In his home country they celebrate openly on the streets the death of innocent children.

A soldier walks by a family, 2 kids playing in the street, he turns around and that 7 year old is holding a automatic rifle. Kills him.

After Israeli air strikes, that killed maybe 3-4 people they bring in dead bodies of women and children, so that when cameras show up there are 30+ bodies lying in graves. They do this to change the worlds opinion and make them hate Israel.

You are blind if you dont see the hate muslim extremism produces. How they treat women is only an example of the barbarism, and brutality that these foes poses.

[tombattor]

nightstar, you are so disgusting, I don't know what to say. It's people like you that support Iraq war because it's easy for people like you to dismiss Iraqi civilians as barbaric Muslims and justify their lives being destroyed.

In fact, you are using racism and religion to do exactly what you said you said you hate people doing in the name of religion. Just like it was easy for people to pillage in the name of Jesus, you are justifying doing so in the name of anti-Muslim.

[nightstarstolen]

tombattor, for all the numerous insults you've attacked me with, you have not made your case very well, just tried to diminish my 'opinion'.

further, i never applied this opinion to all muslims, but to the aggresiveness of it opening up doors for extremism.

your original statement of rich Jewish lobbyist affecting US government policy, is 100% untrue. I gave you plenty of evidence why US supports Israel.

However, i do agree with you that the root may come not from religion but from greed, and hate of people in general

[GuyClinch]

Pete, you are right in that there have been many wars, lost lives, and destructions in the name of religion. However, I tend to believe that those are the people that would have fought each other anyways. In Europe, as you know, there have been countless wars, fights, etc. over power and land. But for the most part, they all believe in the same religion and the proximity to each other forces them to interact and humans being violent and greedy creatures, those interactions often led to wars.

Oh sure humans are inherently violent. Nonetheless Religion is a key tool in excerbating such violence. I talked about how it's divisive. But what I neglected to mention is that a major tenet of modern religions is the devaluation of human life.

That basic idea of course and this is part of all the "big" religions is that when you die in this world your immortal soul lives on in paradise. This cascades downwards devaluing human life.

That terrorist, that crusader, even George Bush might think twice about sending people to die IF they believed that their one and only chance at a life is at stake.

Instead when people die - it's for something larger and they have moved onto a "higher" place. This idea is so destructive to OUR existence as it becomes INCREDIBLY easy to motivate and justify violate acts.

Another example, in Asia, before the introduction of Christianity, most countries were either Buddhist or some derivative of it. However, there have been countless wars, invasions and corruptions. They could have called those wars Holy Wars, as the Westerners conveniently used as their excuses, but what they were was simply wars over land and power. It doesn't matter if you use religion as an excuse or not, the bottom line is, it is what it is.

I don't believe that Asia was once all buddhist - nor is it much like the other religions (that's why I said "major"). Buddhism is about acheiving enlightment here on earth. Buddhish is agnostic. They do not worship a god nor prepare for an afterlife. China is relatively non-religious (except for the buddhists) and has had a 5000 year civilizaton.

Now even if you disagree with all that - you have to admit that the major religions encourage immoral reproduction principles which result in the births of BILLIONS of children who will lack proper nutrition and education. It's often the poorest people who can least provide who reject the use of condoms because of the Catholic Church and the Muslim faith..

Also lets not forget to mention AIDS - something which is also encouraged by organized religion.

No the case for organized religion being incredibly destructive is very strong, IMHO. The so called "good acts" are more then counterbalanced by a legacy of misguided wars and deaths.

Pete