The C's lost two games because its the player's fault
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The C's lost two games because its the player's fault
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GonzoLays
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The C's lost two games because its the player's fault
I'm 99% sure that am I am 100% right about this. Discuss.
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sam_I_am
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I think Doc blew game 4 with inferior in game coaching. He deserves all the credit in the world for being a smart man, a great guy and for building chemistry on this excellent team.
But he did not proactively coach while the team let a 10 point lead slip away.
Sure the players win and lose games. But having a coach who does the right things all the time during a game is a huge asset that helps San Antonio, for example, win games they might otherwise lose.
Does that mean we are doomed? No. But you can chalk 1 loss already to Doc. If that happens in the next round against Cleveland when it will already be 8 on 5 it could cost us a series.
But he did not proactively coach while the team let a 10 point lead slip away.
Sure the players win and lose games. But having a coach who does the right things all the time during a game is a huge asset that helps San Antonio, for example, win games they might otherwise lose.
Does that mean we are doomed? No. But you can chalk 1 loss already to Doc. If that happens in the next round against Cleveland when it will already be 8 on 5 it could cost us a series.
"I think the criticism's stupid," Stevens said. "So I don't care. I'm with Jaylen (Brown) on that. Those two had achieved more than most 25 and 26 year olds ever had. I'd rather be in the mix and have my guts ripped out than suck."
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JMillott
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This hate for Doc Rivers is just (Please Use More Appropriate Word), the guy has done a great job with this team and not just this season but in past seasons.
This guy saved Paul Pierce's career here in Boston by getting him to play team basketball with a bunch of kids around him instead of just jacking up a ton of threes like he did under Obie ball.
If not for saving Paul Pierce from the awful coaching he had received here prior to Doc coming here he'd have been traded away and this season and overall contending window never happens.
If he hadn't developed all the youth we wouldn't have been able to pull off the trades to get Garnett and Allen. If he hadn't had his deep rotations we'd have had no idea what we had in Leon Powe and would've likely thrown him into one of the trades.
If he hadn't had the faith in Rondo he'd have gone to Eddie House as the starting PG when Rondo started to struggle with his shot after the first month of the season or would've turned the team over to Sam Cassell when he signed here.
The players did piss away the two games we lost in this series by not playing Celtics basketball and taking the Hawks for granted not working our offense for good shots and letting leads fall apart.
Could he have micro-managed those games a bit more to ensure wins? I'm sure he could've but i'm glad he let them hang themselves and learn these lessons against the Hawks instead of doing this crap vs a Cavs team who can beat anybody if LeBron gets going.
This guy saved Paul Pierce's career here in Boston by getting him to play team basketball with a bunch of kids around him instead of just jacking up a ton of threes like he did under Obie ball.
If not for saving Paul Pierce from the awful coaching he had received here prior to Doc coming here he'd have been traded away and this season and overall contending window never happens.
If he hadn't developed all the youth we wouldn't have been able to pull off the trades to get Garnett and Allen. If he hadn't had his deep rotations we'd have had no idea what we had in Leon Powe and would've likely thrown him into one of the trades.
If he hadn't had the faith in Rondo he'd have gone to Eddie House as the starting PG when Rondo started to struggle with his shot after the first month of the season or would've turned the team over to Sam Cassell when he signed here.
The players did piss away the two games we lost in this series by not playing Celtics basketball and taking the Hawks for granted not working our offense for good shots and letting leads fall apart.
Could he have micro-managed those games a bit more to ensure wins? I'm sure he could've but i'm glad he let them hang themselves and learn these lessons against the Hawks instead of doing this crap vs a Cavs team who can beat anybody if LeBron gets going.
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3pt %
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The players shanked the game, but Rivers **** the in-game management.
Ray Allen plays where and when Doc tells him to. Anytime a player gets 20 points in a quarter (let alone the 4th) and the opposition coach doesn't make an adjustment...
Well there is your 1% mistake Gonz.
Ray Allen plays where and when Doc tells him to. Anytime a player gets 20 points in a quarter (let alone the 4th) and the opposition coach doesn't make an adjustment...
Well there is your 1% mistake Gonz.
Captain_Caveman wrote:Probably couldn't spell "cat" if you spotted him the C and the A.
Doc doesnt make any adjustments
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Vincent Burnett
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Doc doesnt make any adjustments
Is it me or do others see the same thing? Doc just doesnt call any timeouts when the hawks are making a run.
I am back and bashing doc again!
Vincenzo
I am back and bashing doc again!
Vincenzo
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tlee324
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Gonzo likes Doc. There's really nothing wrong with that. When he first started defending Doc, he tried to use the absurd technique of saying it's a player's league, and coaching doesn't matter. Then he modified it to coaching doesn't matter that much, just a small portion.
I feel coaching has a strong part, and some games it's stronger than others. It's a puzzle that all pieces need to be in, not just one over the other. The talent on this team is enormous, and Doc has done a good job not messing things up so far. For games 4 and 5, I felt he needed to get Pierce (the team's best offensive player) involved more-- not COMPLETELY isolate him-- but get him some opportunities to make things happen offensively. That's what happened in game 5, where he went early and often to get him involved.... that's the coaching side of it... now it's up to Pierce to perform and he did just that. He didn't settle for 3's or take it to the basket with the expectation of a ref bailing him out. He was really and honestly aggressive, and it opened the game up early. Things were going fine in game 1 and 2, and it looked like a cruise job... but ATL made adjustments and I don't think the Celtics were prepared for them. Game 4 was an abomination due to refs, but the C's were passive and let things occur rather than being aggressive and making things happen. That falls on both parties, coach and players, IMO.
But Doc said it in the courtside interview of game 5 that it was on him that Pierce and others weren't aggressive looking for their shots, and it's because of the style of play the team has grown accustomed to, in not letting one man dominate the ball. This made Gonzo defend Doc again, acting as if Pierce lost his ability to create his own shot. I'm pretty sure Gonzo knew Pierce didn't lose his ability due to being as he put it "overweight"... In reality, it's the offense that takes away the incentive for an individual to dominate the ball.. not the ability--or lack thereof--of the player to actually be able to create his own shot.
Kudos to Doc for actually making a positive adjustment in game 5 and getting Pierce the ball and letting him create his own offense several times in the game. KG also was aggressive taking the ball to the basket. This forced double teams, and players like Ray Allen really took advantage, helping KG and Pierce accumulate above their average in assist totals. Again, Doc made the adjustment, and the players performed to their abilities. Just like with the double-teaming of JJ early and often. It was the right coaching move, and the players had to actually perform and execute. Had Doc kept with the same strategies offensively and defensively, it would have fallen on him in not making the right adjustments.
I've felt all along that while talent matters, coaching matters too. It's pointless to say which matters more, because both need to do their jobs in order for the team to play to its full potential. So far in the playoffs, I think it's being shown that both the players and the coach must be on point if they're to go far in the playoffs.
I feel coaching has a strong part, and some games it's stronger than others. It's a puzzle that all pieces need to be in, not just one over the other. The talent on this team is enormous, and Doc has done a good job not messing things up so far. For games 4 and 5, I felt he needed to get Pierce (the team's best offensive player) involved more-- not COMPLETELY isolate him-- but get him some opportunities to make things happen offensively. That's what happened in game 5, where he went early and often to get him involved.... that's the coaching side of it... now it's up to Pierce to perform and he did just that. He didn't settle for 3's or take it to the basket with the expectation of a ref bailing him out. He was really and honestly aggressive, and it opened the game up early. Things were going fine in game 1 and 2, and it looked like a cruise job... but ATL made adjustments and I don't think the Celtics were prepared for them. Game 4 was an abomination due to refs, but the C's were passive and let things occur rather than being aggressive and making things happen. That falls on both parties, coach and players, IMO.
But Doc said it in the courtside interview of game 5 that it was on him that Pierce and others weren't aggressive looking for their shots, and it's because of the style of play the team has grown accustomed to, in not letting one man dominate the ball. This made Gonzo defend Doc again, acting as if Pierce lost his ability to create his own shot. I'm pretty sure Gonzo knew Pierce didn't lose his ability due to being as he put it "overweight"... In reality, it's the offense that takes away the incentive for an individual to dominate the ball.. not the ability--or lack thereof--of the player to actually be able to create his own shot.
Kudos to Doc for actually making a positive adjustment in game 5 and getting Pierce the ball and letting him create his own offense several times in the game. KG also was aggressive taking the ball to the basket. This forced double teams, and players like Ray Allen really took advantage, helping KG and Pierce accumulate above their average in assist totals. Again, Doc made the adjustment, and the players performed to their abilities. Just like with the double-teaming of JJ early and often. It was the right coaching move, and the players had to actually perform and execute. Had Doc kept with the same strategies offensively and defensively, it would have fallen on him in not making the right adjustments.
I've felt all along that while talent matters, coaching matters too. It's pointless to say which matters more, because both need to do their jobs in order for the team to play to its full potential. So far in the playoffs, I think it's being shown that both the players and the coach must be on point if they're to go far in the playoffs.
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GuyClinch
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The players have to perform certainly.. I wasn't a huge Doc fan but he didn't deserve the blame for last year he had a team that consisted of guys like Gerald Green and Delonte West. You just not going to win alot with those guys as your starters.
It's just like Sam Vincent. Despite what Jordan says I just don't think he had alot to work with. Even Larry Brown couldn't make the Knicks good.
Bad coaching can screw up good teams but it can't save bad ones..
Pete
It's just like Sam Vincent. Despite what Jordan says I just don't think he had alot to work with. Even Larry Brown couldn't make the Knicks good.
Bad coaching can screw up good teams but it can't save bad ones..
Pete
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MyInsatiableOne
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JMillott wrote:This hate for Doc Rivers is just (Please Use More Appropriate Word), the guy has done a great job with this team and not just this season but in past seasons.
This guy saved Paul Pierce's career here in Boston by getting him to play team basketball with a bunch of kids around him instead of just jacking up a ton of threes like he did under Obie ball.
If not for saving Paul Pierce from the awful coaching he had received here prior to Doc coming here he'd have been traded away and this season and overall contending window never happens.
If he hadn't developed all the youth we wouldn't have been able to pull off the trades to get Garnett and Allen. If he hadn't had his deep rotations we'd have had no idea what we had in Leon Powe and would've likely thrown him into one of the trades.
If he hadn't had the faith in Rondo he'd have gone to Eddie House as the starting PG when Rondo started to struggle with his shot after the first month of the season or would've turned the team over to Sam Cassell when he signed here.
The players did piss away the two games we lost in this series by not playing Celtics basketball and taking the Hawks for granted not working our offense for good shots and letting leads fall apart.
Could he have micro-managed those games a bit more to ensure wins? I'm sure he could've but i'm glad he let them hang themselves and learn these lessons against the Hawks instead of doing this crap vs a Cavs team who can beat anybody if LeBron gets going.
It's still 17 to 11!!!!
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UGA Hayes
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Look I think you can make the argument that coaching doesn't really matter over an 82 game season but I think you would be nuts to think it doesn't affect a one game situation. To take an extreme if a coach substituted Scalabrine for KG for a long time that would certainly effeect a game. Well house for Rondo was arguably that bad a sub during game 4.
A similar scenario talkerd about by Hollinger is when coaches sit guys with 2 fouls before a half even though the likelihood of picking up another foul isn't high. Those minutes where you substit. An inferior player is every bit as crucial so why sit the guy in foul trouble.
Coaching, at least substitution patterns absolutely matter and it is ignorant to argue otherwise.
A similar scenario talkerd about by Hollinger is when coaches sit guys with 2 fouls before a half even though the likelihood of picking up another foul isn't high. Those minutes where you substit. An inferior player is every bit as crucial so why sit the guy in foul trouble.
Coaching, at least substitution patterns absolutely matter and it is ignorant to argue otherwise.
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Kids Are Alright
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I guess I'm alone in missing the season rotation that we had...I think the big three are going to be worn down if we get to the ECF and the 2nd squad will be too rusty to get it done.
I miss the rotations to House and Posey. It's probably good coaching going against Bibby and Childress, but I thought Doc had a real good thing going with the rotations, and that has changed.
I miss the rotations to House and Posey. It's probably good coaching going against Bibby and Childress, but I thought Doc had a real good thing going with the rotations, and that has changed.
Tanking 
Live for the day 
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SeizeCoup
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I think this team (especially the coaching staff) has shown a good ability to adjust between games. But during the game, I wish they would be more aware of mismatches.
That's my only major gripe.
I thought the game-plan (and the execution) during game 5 was great. I also like how they controlled match-ups on both ends of the court.
I still fear the Pop-lead Spurs...
That's my only major gripe.
I thought the game-plan (and the execution) during game 5 was great. I also like how they controlled match-ups on both ends of the court.
I still fear the Pop-lead Spurs...
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CeltsfaninDC
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Doc is a mental midget when it comes to making adjustments in game. Compare a Belichek led Patriots team who can come back after halftime and completely transform a gameplan to Doc. They had every opportunity to make changes in Gm 4 and did nothing but watch it go down in flames.
The reason why they even have to play tonite is a direct result of his incompetence in Gm 4.
The reason why they even have to play tonite is a direct result of his incompetence in Gm 4.
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sam_I_am
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1. Eddie House - a huge spark plug off the bench all season. Inexplicably benched during this series to play a guy whose play last night killed us.
2. Twice during game we have leads and lethargic coaching allows them to slip away without adjustment.
3. Josh Smith goes to bench with 4 fouls and we have 8 pt. lead. That lead slips to 1 without any sense of urgency. Coaches like Rick Carlysle would have called 4 time outs screaming at his players. It was the crucial stretch of the game and instead of recognizing the opportunity to put the game away.... there was no sense of urgency.
When I find myself screaming at the TV, ripping the lack of effort and 8 minutes goes by without a timeout, without an adjustment, without any evidence of active coaching..... I get upset.
Like I told Gonzo before this series started. Don't rub my nose in any anti-Doc statements I made before the season until he coaches a team out of the first round.
2. Twice during game we have leads and lethargic coaching allows them to slip away without adjustment.
3. Josh Smith goes to bench with 4 fouls and we have 8 pt. lead. That lead slips to 1 without any sense of urgency. Coaches like Rick Carlysle would have called 4 time outs screaming at his players. It was the crucial stretch of the game and instead of recognizing the opportunity to put the game away.... there was no sense of urgency.
When I find myself screaming at the TV, ripping the lack of effort and 8 minutes goes by without a timeout, without an adjustment, without any evidence of active coaching..... I get upset.
Like I told Gonzo before this series started. Don't rub my nose in any anti-Doc statements I made before the season until he coaches a team out of the first round.
"I think the criticism's stupid," Stevens said. "So I don't care. I'm with Jaylen (Brown) on that. Those two had achieved more than most 25 and 26 year olds ever had. I'd rather be in the mix and have my guts ripped out than suck."