Time to Run Some ISO for Ray?

billfromBoston · Post #1 » by **billfromBoston** » Sun May 11, 2008 4:10 am

By now everybody is probably starting to get a bit antsy about Ray Allen and his involvement in the team's offense during this series...many of us thought he had a huge match-up advantage against Cleveland due to his regular season dominance against the club and the fact that he'd be going head-up against Wally Z....

After 3 games, its clear that Cleveland's defense is limiting his ability to come off screens and receive the ball in a good position to attack....

..so...

I pose the question...should the Celtics start running some good old fashion ISO for Ray Allen against Wally and force Wally to stop him straight up?

Its clear that Paul Pierce is not going to dominate LeBron James offensive by running the team's traditional stuff...but there is a wing option who could do so...

Ray Allen has spent the bulk of his career being a focal point offensively with the ball in his hands...with the team struggling offensively, isn't it time to go away from the exact same offensive strategy and let Ray set up a bit more and see what type of damage he can do?

I say yes...let's give Ray some ISO posessions and see if he can't force Cleveland to adjust....Pierce's ISO plays have not worked...a subtle shift could really shake things loose...

celticfan42487 · Post #2 » by **celticfan42487** » Sun May 11, 2008 4:12 am

Yeah lets see what sucks more. Wally's D or Ray's ability to penetrate one on one.

cavsfan_osiris · Post #3 » by **cavsfan_osiris** » Sun May 11, 2008 4:17 am

Time to divide his minutes more evenly with Posey. In fact Posey might need to play more minutes than Ray. I'm a big believer in accountability. Doc can't keep prancing him out there for 35+ minutes as if everything's all good when it's not.

dinoz · Post #4 » by **dinoz** » Sun May 11, 2008 4:25 am

Jerry Sloan was asked about what he could do as coach to get Boozer going. Sloan's response: "Hey, this is the NBA. Boozer needs to get thimself going." Ray needs to do the same.

Post #5 » by **ParticleMan** » Sun May 11, 2008 4:25 am

I thought they tried that quite a bit in this game. Not much luck, obviously. Ray can beat Wally but as soon as help comes he gets swallowed up.

Joselo16 · Post #6 » by **Joselo16** » Sun May 11, 2008 4:38 am

I really wish they would focus more on KG on the post, but I also like bill's idea to ISO Ray and expose Wally and his fake @$$ toughness (anyone see him try to tussle with KG at the end of the 3rd).

I just don't know why Doc can't make that adjustment since everyone knows that Paul is not going to get the same calls he usually gets against other players and won't be able to take over games in this series.

When this team was put together I really though this offense was going to be ran like the Patriots in which the game plan changes from game to game utilizing a players strength against the opponents weakness, but the adjustments haven't been made either by the players or the coaches. But if the players don't listen who fault is it?

Post #7 » by **UGA Hayes** » Sun May 11, 2008 6:10 pm

Yeah I think I would goto KG in the post more. Ray isos seems good in theory but there were plays where Ray couldn't even turn the corner on Big Z, so I'm wary of putting him into situations where he dribbles at all anymore.

CHryptic · Post #8 » by **CHryptic** » Sun May 11, 2008 6:13 pm

The Cleveland bigs are eating us when we drive into the lane. I'd have to pass on the Ray ISO idea.

However, KG NEEDS to get the ball in the post more. Nobody has defended him thus far in the series. Last game we went away from him and it killed me. KG should be our bread and butter offensively this series.

Banks2Pierce · Post #9 » by **Banks2Pierce** » Sun May 11, 2008 6:51 pm

I was also thinking this. Ray just has no room to operate in the pick and rolls. The lane is always cluttered when he has the ball. There was one play where he had room to work with on Wally and he took him to the hole. CLEAR IT OUT AND LET RAY GO TO WORK.

The Corey's · Post #10 » by **The Corey's** » Sun May 11, 2008 7:18 pm

we should run some plays for him only when he starts knocking down shots. not in hope that it will help him knock down some shots.

MVP16 · Post #11 » by **MVP16** » Sun May 11, 2008 7:21 pm

I think we need to do more isolation plays with Rondo. The last 2 games, Rondo has rarely had the ball in his hands in the half court and instead the big 3 + Cassell have been dominating the ball. This has forced Rondo to be a jump shooter and allowed West to help off Rondo. Rondo showed in game 1 that he can easily get by West into the paint and create opportunities. I would rather make Rondo the creator and Ray Allen the shooter then have Ray as the creator and Rondo the shooter.

Pogue Mahone · Post #12 » by **Pogue Mahone** » Sun May 11, 2008 9:02 pm

MVP16 wrote:I think we need to do more isolation plays with Rondo. The last 2 games, Rondo has rarely had the ball in his hands in the half court and instead the big 3 + Cassell have been dominating the ball. This has forced Rondo to be a jump shooter and allowed West to help off Rondo. Rondo showed in game 1 that he can easily get by West into the paint and create opportunities. I would rather make Rondo the creator and Ray Allen the shooter then have Ray as the creator and Rondo the shooter.

QFT

cavsfan_osiris · Post #13 » by **cavsfan_osiris** » Sun May 11, 2008 9:44 pm

MVP16 wrote:I think we need to do more isolation plays with Rondo. The last 2 games, Rondo has rarely had the ball in his hands in the half court and instead the big 3 + Cassell have been dominating the ball. This has forced Rondo to be a jump shooter and allowed West to help off Rondo. Rondo showed in game 1 that he can easily get by West into the paint and create opportunities. I would rather make Rondo the creator and Ray Allen the shooter then have Ray as the creator and Rondo the shooter.

again qft

ermocrate · Post #14 » by **ermocrate** » Sun May 11, 2008 9:55 pm

MVP16 wrote:I think we need to do more isolation plays with Rondo. The last 2 games, Rondo has rarely had the ball in his hands in the half court and instead the big 3 + Cassell have been dominating the ball. This has forced Rondo to be a jump shooter and allowed West to help off Rondo. Rondo showed in game 1 that he can easily get by West into the paint and create opportunities. I would rather make Rondo the creator and Ray Allen the shooter then have Ray as the creator and Rondo the shooter.

Rondo can easily pass trough West and be blocked or loose the ball with an insane abitily... :lol:

leper-con · Post #15 » by **leper-con** » Sun May 11, 2008 10:50 pm

I vote we bring PP off he bench for road games. this would make Ray the primary offensive weapon with the first unit and force him to get going and PP could be the clear leader of the bench and each would have a clear designated role to full fill and they wouldn't defir to anyone.

Rocky5000 · Post #16 » by **Rocky5000** » Sun May 11, 2008 11:14 pm

Ray can't get by anyone this year, it's kinda pathetic. They blitz him on the pick and he can't even get around Ilgaukas. I don't know if it's his ankles or what, but I've noticed it all year. I still think we should try Tony Allen for some minutes against Wally. We did play him significant minutes for the first 82 games and that seemed to work pretty well.....

ermocrate · Post #17 » by **ermocrate** » Sun May 11, 2008 11:18 pm

Rocky5000 wrote:Ray can't get by anyone this year, it's kinda pathetic. They blitz him on the pick and he can't even get around Ilgaukas. I don't know if it's his ankles or what, but I've noticed it all year. I still think we should try Tony Allen for some minutes against Wally. We did play him significant minutes for the first 82 games and that seemed to work pretty well.....

The same goes for LeBron, we blitz him all the time and he can get past KG or Perk, it's kinda pathethic like some Celtics fans.

billfromBoston · Post #18 » by **billfromBoston** » Mon May 12, 2008 3:55 am

Guys, ISOs are different that pick-and-roll set ups from beyond the perimeter...I'd like to see Ray getting the ball at about 15-18 feet on the left or right baseline to the elbow...stack the other players on the other side of the court and let him operate...

Ray's always been a good passer and he can pull-up and shoot on anyone...the looks he's been getting have been in pick-and-roll and off screens....the Cleveland defense is stacking itself on the perimeter against Allen and neutralizing his catch-and-shoot as well as his pick-and-roll attack ops...

I'd like to see Pierce move a bit more off-ball and sort of pull a roll reversal with he and Allen...make Lebron and the Cavs chase Pierce around and let Allen set up with some touches that more closely reflect his role from the past 5 years of his career...

Celtics_History_Lesson · Post #19 » by **Celtics_History_Lesson** » Mon May 12, 2008 5:37 am

Some of the most foolish ideas of all time. All the other team does is take the defender from Rondo, who is standing around the arc, and he helps defend R Allen.

If Perkins and Rondo are standing on the other side of the floor, it won't be too good if Allen passes it to them as even if they are wide open they can't shoot.

Ray Allen might have retired in his mind a few years ago but is still in the NBA for the money. Either play him at the point guard spot, or sit him and put Posey in who is defending and shooting better than R Allen.

If both West and Szczerbiak are playing better than Ray Allen, not even mentioning Jeff Green, Ray Allen is a big disappointment.

rambo_ortega · Post #20 » by **rambo_ortega** » Mon May 12, 2008 6:08 am

kg on the post is just perfect. no one has been able to stop him.

with ray, i also believe that he needs the ball in his hands instead of rondo most of the time in the half court set. he can create his own shots against wally while rondo cuts to the basket. we were effective at this during the season.