Doc got his handed to him....

sprash9802 · Post #1 » by **sprash9802** » Fri May 23, 2008 3:51 am

... by Flip.. Detroit was crisp on both ends... and kudos to Flip for developing Stuckey. We have NO options off the bench like they do. Their D was equally impressive and it looks like we made no adjustments on the defensive end.

The Rondo Show · Post #2 » by **The Rondo Show** » Fri May 23, 2008 3:54 am

I'm curious as to why Thibodeau gets all the credit for the defense when it is dominant yet Doc is blamed for it when the defense underperforms.

If you are going to give Thibodeau all the credit for the D when it is playing great, doesn't he have to shoulder the blame for it playing terrible tonight? I think so.

leper-con · Post #3 » by **leper-con** » Fri May 23, 2008 3:55 am

DOc needs to learn how to use the timeouts to help rest his players. He also needs to never not leave one of the big 3 on the court. I thought itnoght was agame SAm could have played well in. His dusty old bones will be used in Detroit. BOOK IT>

Post #4 » by **sully00** » Fri May 23, 2008 4:01 am

Tom Thibodeau got smoked tonight, his defense didn't show up. He is a choker, how can he not show up in a big game like this. He wants to be a head coach and he can't even bring his defense to an Eastern Conference finals game. He is a regular season assistant coach the Rockets could never win in the posteason either.

doctaJ_92 · Post #5 » by **doctaJ_92** » Fri May 23, 2008 4:18 am

Its not the coaches fault the guards kept biting for pump fakes over and over again and blatantly grabbing off the ball. I get as pissed as anyone when the refs make bad calls but the Celtics guards played with the least bball IQ I've seen since I watched the Raptors last game. Stay on your **** feet and just put your arms straight up and at least then Hamilton has to take a tough shot instead of getting gifted FT's.

Post #6 » by **sully00** » Fri May 23, 2008 4:27 am

Don't take this the wrong way doctaJ but I am not sure your reasonable well thought out persepctive will be welcome in this thread. We lost it has to be Doc's fault especially since Pierce balled, Ray got off, and Sam didn't play. Haters got to hate.

cisco · Post #7 » by **cisco** » Fri May 23, 2008 12:13 pm

I'm not a big Doc fan, but I wouldn't blame him for the loss. He made two mistakes I thought (neither of which cost the game, imo)... not playing Cassell when Rondo was passing up shots causing turnovers and Eddie was ineffective was one mistake and the other was starting the 4th quarter with the bench when you were already down by 9.

But there were 3 reasons this game was lost,

1. Lack of bench production
2. Poor defense, especially in the 4th quarter
3. Rondo passing up open shots, leading to some turnovers (the reason Sam should have played).

spf211 · Post #8 » by **spf211** » Fri May 23, 2008 12:17 pm

I wouldn't blame Doc for the loss last night -- I blame Doc for the inability to coach his team to win on the road in the playoffs, therefore making a game like last night a "must win" because we can't afford to lose a single game at home.

MyInsatiableOne · Post #9 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Fri May 23, 2008 12:57 pm

The Rondo Show wrote:I'm curious as to why Thibodeau gets all the credit for the defense when it is dominant yet Doc is blamed for it when the defense underperforms.

If you are going to give Thibodeau all the credit for the D when it is playing great, doesn't he have to shoulder the blame for it playing terrible tonight? I think so.

Thank You. I've been saying this exact thing in threads for **** MONTHS.

Thibs D sucked badly last night. End of story.

MyInsatiableOne · Post #10 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Fri May 23, 2008 12:58 pm

spf211 wrote:I wouldn't blame Doc for the loss last night -- I blame Doc for the inability to coach his team to win on the road in the playoffs, therefore making a game like last night a "must win" because we can't afford to lose a single game at home.

Right, because again, we only have AT LEAST 2 MORE CHANCES to win a road game in the next few days.

Why was it so "unthinkable" for "fans" like you to think we'd ever lose a home game, but you expect the worst on the road. With "fans" like this the C's would be better off with none!

Red2 · Post #11 » by **Red2** » Fri May 23, 2008 1:02 pm

I don't blame DOc for last night except for that lineup he trotted out there in the 2nd period that didn't have any flow to it. He finally played Tony Allen but tony allen like the rest of our bench is clueless. I think what little confidence tony had is long gone. the one guy I thought doc should have tried last night was cassell. I know Doc feels we needed to play better D and he;s right but at a certain point if you'r enot playing D then you better play O. Our one shot last night was to outscore them. once we fell behind in the 2nd qtr it took a lot of energy to catch up. right now our bench is horrible

MyInsatiableOne · Post #12 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Fri May 23, 2008 1:03 pm

doctaJ_92 wrote:Its not the coaches fault the guards kept biting for pump fakes over and over again and blatantly grabbing off the ball. I get as pissed as anyone when the refs make bad calls but the Celtics guards played with the least bball IQ I've seen since I watched the Raptors last game. Stay on your **** feet and just put your arms straight up and at least then Hamilton has to take a tough shot instead of getting gifted FT's.

Absolutely, we bit on EVERY **** FAKE they threw. And how absolutely horrendous and awful did Tony Allen look in there?

Plus we are VERY MUCH hurt when Perk is in there. Our starting lineup is basically playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end.

Post #13 » by **UGA Hayes** » Fri May 23, 2008 4:22 pm

Hard to blame doc for this one. I suppose there were some different subs he could have made in the first half but nothing glaringly obvious. He benched House pretty quickly in the second as well as brough some starters in so he didn't let things get too far way from him. Ultimately our players made a lot of dumb plays yesterday that put us in a position where we couldn't catch up.

celticfan42487 · Post #14 » by **celticfan42487** » Fri May 23, 2008 5:12 pm

Yeah so Flip changed.. nothing. And DET didn't show up for Game 1 yet they did for game 2 while BOS played great in both games..

Oh and yes Flip developed the rookie Stuckey into the player he is today.

I hate Doc but last night was about players executing. DET's been doing this for over a half decade and executed. We didn't. If we had the big 3.. three years ago we'd be glad saying the role players are learning how to play in these situations this is a great learning experience.

I think Doc did fine last night with his rotations. DET's defense picked up and didn't let themselfs get abused by the Pierce/KG pick and role.

And the only major diffrence was Pierce didn't bring the ball up all the time like he did before.. but we seemed to break the press with the same lack of ease while not using Pierce as often.

captain_cheapseats · Post #15 » by **captain_cheapseats** » Fri May 23, 2008 7:27 pm

I think Doc did fine last night with his rotations

I disagree. I think he did a terrible job with the rotation, just like he has all year. There's no reason for more than one of the big three to ever be on the bench at once for any significant period of time -- particularly when down 7 in the 3rd quarter of an ECF game -- and there's no reason you need to use 11 players in the playoffs. Also, as Mark Jackson has pointed out many times, when you use guys off the bench in completely random patterns like Doc does, it makes it tougher for the bench guys to play consistently.

Though with that said, you can't put all (or even most) of the blame on Doc. We also got a couple bad calls, and had a couple guys off the bench fail to step up when they normally would.

bru87tr · Post #16 » by **bru87tr** » Fri May 23, 2008 10:10 pm

bring back jim o'brien!

ermocrate · Post #17 » by **ermocrate** » Sat May 24, 2008 12:59 am

celticfan42487 wrote:I think Doc did fine last night with his rotations. DET's defense picked up and didn't let themselfs get abused by the Pierce/KG pick and role.

PICK AND ROLL!

spf211 · Post #18 » by **spf211** » Sat May 24, 2008 1:42 am

MyInsatiableOne wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Why was it so "unthinkable" for "fans" like you to think we'd ever lose a home game, but you expect the worst on the road. With "fans" like this the C's would be better off with none!

With fans like you, why does RealGM even exist? Why do they even bother to play basketball games?

Ra ra! Celtics No. 1! World Champs because I say so! This one's for you, Red!

For the record, I've been saying since the Atlanta series that the Celtics were bound to lose at home sometime in the playoffs this year -- and then I said if Chauncey Billups played hurt as he did in Game 1 the Pistons would not be able to beat the Celtics at home. So I have no idea where this is coming from to begin with -- but it's easy to misrepresent an opinion you don't fully understand to begin with.

intheknow · Post #19 » by **intheknow** » Sat May 24, 2008 4:03 am

Red2 wrote:I don't blame DOc for last night except for that lineup he trotted out there in the 2nd period that didn't have any flow to it. He finally played Tony Allen but tony allen like the rest of our bench is clueless. I think what little confidence tony had is long gone. the one guy I thought doc should have tried last night was cassell. I know Doc feels we needed to play better D and he;s right but at a certain point if you'r enot playing D then you better play O. Our one shot last night was to outscore them. once we fell behind in the 2nd qtr it took a lot of energy to catch up. right now our bench is horrible

Doc and his rotations are the problem. How can you sit Tony Allen for almost two 7 game playoff series and then expect him to come in and play great? The playoffs are where you better have your player rotation working for you and Doc is clueless in that area. Everyone is playing harder in the playoffs, the "old timers" need some rest and you need a consistent combination of rotations that don't hurt you (at the least). It seems to me that all Doc is doing (every game) is shooting from the hip. It's not that the bench is so horrible - it's the use of the bench that's hurting....