Closing Games out without James Posey, PJ and Eddie

[Jammer]

With PJ Brown likely to sit out until at least February (and possibly retire for good),

and James Posey possibly signing with another team like the Lakers, Houston, Detroit or New Orleans, and even Eddie House's return not a sure thing;

I think that it is wise to forget stats for a minute and look at the possible game closeout lineups that the Celtics used in the playoffs, and the implications that they face
if Posey/Brown/House are not there.

Game Closeout Lineup 1 (Mobile with 3 to 4 Three Point Shooters):

C: Garnett
PF: Posey
SF: Pierce
SG: Ray
PG: Rajon or Eddie

Depending how Rajon is playing (and whether Eddie was hitting) usually determined which got time at the end of the game. One is a penetrator/defender while the other is a shooter.

Eddie gave the Celtics 5 shooters on the floor, with 2 slashers (Pierce and Allen).
Rajon gave 4 shooters, and 3 slashers with better defense.

The candidates offered a minimum one year contract who might replace Eddie who have yet to be resolved are Jason Williams of Miami and Tyronn Lue (who sounds like he would come, which means Williams might have first crack).

Williams doesn't give you another shooter at the end of the game, but is able to run an offense and push the break well. Lue is more of an Eddie House clone, but has been better paid over the years.

I don't see a mobile PF for situations that it is called for that would be as good as it as Posey. Asking Maggette or Pierce to step up at the end of the game, versus using Powe or Scalabrine, is making sacrifices in other areas. If the Celtics put Maggette out there with Pierce and Ray Allen, it's definately going small. And I would still want Eddie House around in case a shooter was called for and other guys were off (like Rajon or Williams), unless the Celtics sign Lue instead of Williams, but I'd still prefer House.
______________________________________________________________________________________________
Game Closeout Lineup 2 (Big)

C: PJ Brown
PF: Garnett
SF: Pierce
SG: Ray
PG: Rajon or Eddie

Here, with the Celtics Big game closeout lineup, they had size (PJ is 6' 10" w/o shoes, with long arms) alongside Garnett. PJ offered post D and a pick and pop jump shot, especially useful on screens and rolls.

The Celtics, if they were able to add someone like Alonzo Mourning (Alonzo is 4 months younger than PJ, on one kidney) for minimum, would still have a center who can hit a shot.

But, as I see it, I see that the Celtics can potentially lose out the GREAT closing lineups that they had:

The mobile lineup (with Posey at PF), and
the Big lineup (with PJ Brown at center).

The ability to pick and choose between Rajon and Eddie would also be nice, even though I would still want to add one of Jason Williams or Lue for minimum if they would come.

[TheCelticTruth]

heres the thing. i dont think were overestimating what our FAs have done for the team this year. i do think were underestimating the ability of other players to contribute around a core of KG/PP/Allen.

and im going to continue on my campaign to discourage the signing of lue anwhere his name is mentioned. an eddie house clone? hes not the shooter, which takes away a lot of the value. lets not forget the kinf of player house was in college. he had some exploits, and played for a lesser program in ASU but had a salim stoudamire/jj reddick impact. lue...not quite...at all

[threrf23]

I trust Perk @ the C position, personally.

And yes, Eddie House was the man at ASU. Wasn't blessed with the greatest offensive options alongside him, but went off bigtime against quality PAC-10 opponents. He might not be a pure shooter, but he is a scorer.

Lue may be more of a PG than House...but objective I don't think he brings enough to the table to justify letting House walk, and subjectively he just tends to annoy me for some odd reason.

[TheCelticTruth]

...I don't think he brings enough to the table to justify letting House walk... subjectively he just tends to annoy me

hahaha, full agreement on both points

[Fencer reregistered]

I think Perk can be the default close-out big. Indeed, I think he'll have a short jumper next year, although maybe not yet to the range of Brown's.

Still, we need a backup big, as was shown many times. Leon has to grow a lot on defense -- more than in physical stature -- to be that guy. Ditto Davis in general reliability (TOs, fouls, etc.).

As for smallball -- yeah, we should have at least four outside shooters available, so counting backups that should be at least 5. However, if Posey goes we don't HAVE to have another small guy who can cover 4s; Pierce can do it.

[celticfan42487]

I think House will be back. He's always signed with contenders and I don't think that's going to change now.

We really do need another Center though. I love Perk but you can't count on him for 35mpg in the playoffs. In the regular season sure.. but for some reason in the playoffs he regressed back to foul prone man just like Rondo regressed to no shot/ all gamble defense. These two have a lot of growing up to do in order to replicate what they did in the regular season at a playoff intensity and I don't want to need to rely on that.

I hope we get Posey back.. I never like him playing at the 4 though, I think we're overstating how much of a fit he was there and it was mostly just because he was our best bench player by far that lineup worked. Also don't forget KG hates playing Center for very good reasons... he's a SF/PF

[sully00]

Lue is actually a better shooter than House. He can also shoot off the dribble and get his own shot. Lue is the quintessential league average pg, House is a streaky shooter. That is the thing with Eddie if he makes his first chances are he will make the next 3 but if he misses the first chances are he will miss the next 8. With all of the swingmen Ainge has drafted and looking at guys like Kirk Snyder, who I like as well, I think that Lue is offers this team a lot more than House does.

[mr_sunshine]

Lue is actually a better shooter than House. He can also shoot off the dribble and get his own shot. Lue is the quintessential league average pg, House is a streaky shooter. That is the thing with Eddie if he makes his first chances are he will make the next 3 but if he misses the first chances are he will miss the next 8. With all of the swingmen Ainge has drafted and looking at guys like Kirk Snyder, who I like as well, I think that Lue is offers this team a lot more than House does.

How dare you suggest that Lue is better than the splendiforous Eddie House! Anyone who was on the team last year that is a FA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any other free agent we might possibly sign, for no reason at all.

[buckner1976]

Lue is actually a better shooter than House. He can also shoot off the dribble and get his own shot. Lue is the quintessential league average pg, House is a streaky shooter. That is the thing with Eddie if he makes his first chances are he will make the next 3 but if he misses the first chances are he will miss the next 8. With all of the swingmen Ainge has drafted and looking at guys like Kirk Snyder, who I like as well, I think that Lue is offers this team a lot more than House does.

i think these are the 2 names were gonna end up with when all is said and done. i think we whiff on both posey and maggette and snyder is the fallback. im a huge house fan but i know doc is gonna be more comfortable with a guy like lue off the bench behind rondo. the kg thing doesnt hurt either.

[DelMonte West]

Lue is actually a better shooter than House. He can also shoot off the dribble and get his own shot. Lue is the quintessential league average pg, House is a streaky shooter. That is the thing with Eddie if he makes his first chances are he will make the next 3 but if he misses the first chances are he will miss the next 8. With all of the swingmen Ainge has drafted and looking at guys like Kirk Snyder, who I like as well, I think that Lue is offers this team a lot more than House does.

How dare you suggest that Lue is better than the splendiforous Eddie House! Anyone who was on the team last year that is a FA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any other free agent we might possibly sign, for no reason at all.

Utter nonsense! Why, right now CelticsBlog has a poll asking who you'd prefer out of Maggette and Posey! Surely a no-brainer if there ever was one! I just looked at the poll results and....

Waitaminute...

Seriously, some of the stuff I've read is turning me -against- our players with the way they're being overrated.

[GuyClinch]

Lue over House could well be an upgrade. But I am not at all convinced though he is actually a better shooter. What you have to understand is Eddie House basically does one thing - shoot threes. Not only that the defense knows that he is going to - shoot threes. But they still can't stop him.

Lue OTOH has a more varied offensive game - and will slash and shoot off the dribble and such. But this means his relatively RARE 3 point shot is somewhat ignored. If we had any kind of three point contest I would put alot of money on House. Percentages can be misleading..

Pete