Celtics PLAYOFF NET PER and Adjusted +/-

[Jammer]

************************ PER ********* On Court/Off Court **** Roland
Player Minutes Own Opp ** Net ******* On ** Off * Net ***** Rating
Garnett 79% *** 24.7 13.8 +10.9 ***** +9.0 -8.8 +17.8 **** +12.4
Pierce * 79% ** 18.6 *14.0 +4.6 ****** +6.6 +0.2 *+6.4 **** +5.0
Perkins *51% ** 13.9 13.4 +0.5 ******* +9.4 +1.0 +8.4 **** +4.4
R.Allen *79% ** 16.0 13.9 +2.0 ******** +7.3 -2.6 +9.9 **** +3.7
House * 13% ** 11.6 10.6 +1.0 ****** +13.4 +4.0 +9.4 **** +2.1
Cassell * 21% *** 7.0 8.6 -1.6 ********* +7.8 +4.5 +3.3 **** -0.6
Rondo * 67% * 17.0 15.6 +1.3 ******** +3.6 +8.5 -4.9 **** -0.8
Powe ** 22% * 15.5 18.8 -3.3 ******** +0.5 +6.5 -6.0 **** -3.9
Posey * 46% ** 15.3 17.0 -1.7 ******* +1.1 +8.8 -7.7 **** -4.5
T.Allen * 5% ** 11.4 19.6 -8.1 ******* +5.1 +5.2 -0.1 **** -7.7
Davis ** 11% *** 8.9 18.4 -9.5 ****** -10.8 +7.2 -18.0 * -10.5
Brown 27% **** 8.8 20.7 -11.9 ****** -7.8 +10.1 -17.9 **-13.5

The above is an interesting summary from 82games.com of the Celtics "stats" for their 26 playoff games.

This is significant because most players stats are worse than the regulation season,
since teams are better offensively and defensively, and trying to win till the very end.

The columns are player, minutes played in %,
Your PER, Your Man's PER, NET PER,
Adjusted +/- when on and off the court, NET adjusted +/-,
and a Roland Rating which is a 40%/60% waiting of NET PER/Adjusted plus/minus.

The interesting thing for the Celtics is that Garnett is head and shoulders above everyone else on the team;
Pierce, Perkins, Ray Allen and House in his limited minutes were solid;
Rondo and Casell were a wash (although in Sam's case Doc pulled him none too soon);
and Powe, Posey, Tony Allen, Davis and Brown were being carried by the rest of the team.

Looking at this,

I can see why Danny is hesitant to give Posey a 4th year

(although I wonder why House may not get a second year),

and that Perk really stepped up in the playoffs.

The really odd thing about these numbers is that while

Powe, Posey, Tony Allen, Glen Davis and PJ Brown were basically outplayed badly by whoever they were guarding,

Sam Cassell, although he didn't contribute much, didn't seem to get burned by whoever Doc matched him up against. Maybe Sam just drew the other team's bench.

From an adjusted plus/minus point of view PJ Brown and Glen Davis were hammered.

[humblebum]

Well to be fair to PJ, he was almost always matched up against the other team's toughest post player... Horford, Ilgauskaus, Sheed, or Gasol. He had a really tough assignment almost everytime he stepped on the court. Glen Davis never even really got a shot at making a positive contribution, his minutes were limited and sporadic. Same for Tony Allen.

I'd say that Posey may have been subject to the same kind of effect that PJ was... he drew a lot of tough matchups... JJ, Lebron, Tayshaun, Kobe.

[Rocky5000]

Compare to the regular season stats, Posey was the 10th best player on our team. Statistically TA was actually a more valuable player.

Production On Court/Off Court Roland
Player Min Own Opp Net On Off Net Rating
Garnett 59% 28.7 12.7 +16.0 +15.2 +3.1 +12.1 +14.5
Pierce 73% 22.4 12.1 +10.2 +13.1 +2.5 +10.7 +10.4
R.Allen 65% 18.5 12.7 +5.9 +11.4 +8.0 +3.4 +4.9
Rondo 58% 17.7 16.3 +1.4 +12.9 +6.5 +6.3 +3.4
Perkins 48% 14.9 16.5 -1.6 +12.6 +8.0 +4.5 +0.9
Powe 20% 23.6 19.6 +4.0 +6.0 +11.3 -5.3 +0.3
House 37% 14.9 13.3 +1.6 +9.0 +10.9 -1.9 +0.2
T.Allen 36% 12.7 11.2 +1.5 +7.6 +11.7 -4.1 -0.7
Davis 24% 12.8 15.8 -3.0 +5.3 +11.8 -6.4 -4.4
Posey 46% 13.9 16.8 -3.0 +5.0 +14.7 -9.7 -5.6
Cassell 8% 12.9 19.0 -6.1 +1.9 +10.9 -9.0 -7.2
Scalabrine 13% 6.0 13.8 -7.8 +4.4 +11.1 -6.7 -7.4
Brown 5% 11.6 17.6 -6.0 -0.7 +10.8 -11.5 -8.2
Pruitt 2% 9.9 12.1 -2.2 -6.6 +10.6 -17.2 -8.2
Pollard 4% 9.8 22.6 -12.8 +3.9 +10.5 -6.6 -10.3

[EJay33]

If anything, this really makes me question PER. This isn't even close to a reflection of what I saw on the floor.

[Celtics_85]

You can really see differently when someone is being hyped instead of being questioned. Power of suggestion is real and when a guy like Posey is hyped it makes you see all the little things he does. TA wasn't hyped and I saw him do a lot of little things that went unoticed because he was in other peoples doghouse except for mine. TA has limitations, but so does Posey, but you never hear someone talk about all his shortcomings. Take your short glasses off and you can see where guys like TA, House,Powe, and Davis can be just as important but go unoticed because they aren't being hyped by the announcers. I don't exactly agree with all the plus and minuses thing, but I see TA make as many defensive plays as Posey, but the problem was that TA didn't get his just due because of his injuries and two years ago people were raving about what he could do. That is still TA and he can still do those same things now. We need to bring him and Posey back as both are important to this team. The only problem being Posey wants a big payday and TA can be had for cheaper, but he can do just as much for this team if Posey leaves for the money. We need to get on the re-sign TA wagon as much as we are on the re-sign Posey wagon.

[3pt %]

Watching the game, Posey was a key contributor.

Stats suck without context.

lies, damn lies and statistics

[Jammer]

Watching the game, Posey was a key contributor.

Stats suck without context.

lies, damn lies and statistics

When I said that the Celts should have given Posey 4 years for $5 million last summer, with a two year LLE deal to House, last summer (in anticipation of Posey not exercising his player option, since for the price he got last year, it was obvious he'd only take a one year deal)

the majority of the board here say visuals be damned, Danny and Wyc did the right thing pinching pennies last year. Anyone who watched Posey throughout his career, and I watched him a lot, knew he had improved as a 3 point shooter and could spread the floor, and more importantly, guard guys like LeBron James, Ron Artest and the like.

The interesting thing here, though, is that:

Perk came along in the playoffs (actually improved greatly over the course of the season)

Garnett carried the team ALL year long, though Pierce was also a major contributor during the regular season

Davis, Powe and PJ Brown are jello on defense, Davis and Powe because they're not long enough;
PJ because he's lost a step or two.

House is much more effective than people realize, even though his minutes have to parsed out for situations where he can succeed.

Rondo is coming along, next year he may be even more of a force.

[PPAW4Life]

Posey isn't a stat player so he is going to do things that doesn't help personal stats and whoever he is guarding is going to outscore him or out-produce him.

On top of that he is a bench player....when you go to your bench the opposite team is going to make a run (cause if they don't make a run then when are they going to make it....with KG, RA, and PP on the floor? I think not) so these stats don't accurately reflect what Posey brings to the table.

Posey along with Eddie House and PJ Brown make TIMELY plays. Whether its a huge clutch shot, a deflection, or a momentum increasing defensive stop via block or charge taken....these guys get the job done.

I don't need stats to tell me Posey is a critical part of our team or any team going for a Championship. Why? Because I've seen him make plays.

This is a guy who can hit 6 three's and score 18 points off the bench in 22 minutes....no he's not going to do that every game or he'd be God but he fact he CAN do it and play solid defense and rebound is just cake!

This is a guy who will take 4 or 5 charges in a game and make a direct impact on the game without even touching the ball!

This is a guy who will do his damndest to not let great scorers feel comfortable because he has long arms, wants to play defense, moves his feet, takes charges, and gets after the boards.

Posey is a TEAM guy....a glue guy....a veteran and he is looking to make fair market value when his value could not be higher. He's getting up there in age so this will probably be his only shot at making a nice package deal for himself and after helping the C's in Banner #17.....I don't see what the big deal is for holding off one freaking year at the max Mid-level....just pay the guy and keep this team as close to whole as possible.

We are already losing too many "brothers of war" here....PJ Brown is probably not coming back....Tony Allen is most likely not back, Sam Cassell isn't going to be back, Eddie House isn't signed, and Posey wants to come back but it's one freaking year that is holding the deal up? Come on!

I know we have great confidence in Powe and Big Baby but they are still young and unproven. Do we want to give them the responsibility to make a huge play in the playoffs while KG, PP, and Allen are sitting watching on the bench?

That's a lot of pressure for young guys and I know Perkins and Rondo stepped up but they played WITH the Big 3 for the majority of their minutes and could hide in their greatness just enough to be able to step out of it and show their own greatness.

That is very hard to do coming off the bench....Posey is a guy who can do that on his own.