OT:Chris Wallace is the worst GM ever: Revisited

Collinto · Post #1 » by **Collinto** » Fri Aug 8, 2008 8:42 pm

Since our old friend Chris Wallace has gone to Memphis, there have been numerous threads bashing him. The Gasol trade was insane, no doubt. But the financial pressures/needs that forced that deal may have put Wallace in a bad spot and taking too much heat.

If, big IF, he lands Josh Smith, color me impressed. Memphis will have gone from one of the most unwatchable teams in the league to one of the most interesting, IMHO. Connelly, Mayo, Gay, Smith and Milicic is a pretty exciting young team. With Lowery, Warrick, Jaric, Marc Gasol, Crittenton off the bench...and Darrell Arthur (the didn't get drafted in the lottery because of a bogus kidney rumor guy). Love the athletes and am interested to see them play.

In basically a year, Wallace has put his stamp on this franchise, with highly athletic players. The West is tough and that is not a finished product, but I like the make up and there seems to be a base of talent there. I may move my rating of Chris Wallace back to neutral, pending future moves.

chakdaddy · Post #2 » by **chakdaddy** » Fri Aug 8, 2008 11:06 pm

If they did that they basically traded Gasol for Josh Smith which is a lateral move at best, I'd say...but Atlanta will match anyway.

The best that can come out of this is if they are able to use cap space to sign someone as good as Gasol, which is highly unlikely IMO.

Post #3 » by **ParticleMan** » Fri Aug 8, 2008 11:18 pm

But they won't get Smith. Atlanta will match. They have to after the disaster of an offseason they've had. I mean, they have to, right?

Oh wait, it's Atlanta.

MVP16 · Post #4 » by **MVP16** » Fri Aug 8, 2008 11:24 pm

chakdaddy wrote:If they did that they basically traded Gasol for Josh Smith which is a lateral move at best, I'd say...but Atlanta will match anyway.

The best that can come out of this is if they are able to use cap space to sign someone as good as Gasol, which is highly unlikely IMO.

If they get Smith, then the trade was Gasol for Smith, Crittenton, Marc Gasol, Darrell Arthur and a 1st rounder in 2010. That would turn out into actually a fairly good deal for a team looking to rebuild, but Atlanta will probably match.

francishsu · Post #5 » by **francishsu** » Sat Aug 9, 2008 2:52 am

Wow, the Hawks didn't even bother to wait before smacking down Wallace's offer. :lol:

So the revisiting is now over and Chris Wallace does remain the worst GM.

billfromBoston · Post #6 » by **billfromBoston** » Sat Aug 9, 2008 3:17 am

....S&T still possible...

Collinto · Post #7 » by **Collinto** » Sat Aug 9, 2008 3:21 am

Still a great offer by Wallace. He took a shot and lost nothing. Actually it gained the franchise some PR points if nothing else. And after the Gasol mess, atleast they're showing some commitment to improve the team. Smith would have been a great fit, imho.

Scalamental · Post #8 » by **Scalamental** » Sat Aug 9, 2008 3:42 am

Collinto wrote:Still a great offer by Wallace. He took a shot and lost nothing. Actually it gained the franchise some PR points if nothing else. And after the Gasol mess, atleast they're showing some commitment to improve the team. Smith would have been a great fit, imho.

Your giving wallace too much credit for nothin.

Jimmy103 · Post #9 » by **Jimmy103** » Sat Aug 9, 2008 7:17 am

Why not something around Lowry/Warrick/future picks in a S&T

Wallace will have done a pretty nice job if he could spin this into a S&T

Pretty good deal for the Hawks whether he stays or goes

Post #10 » by **Tommy Udo 6** » Sat Aug 9, 2008 2:25 pm

billfromBoston wrote:....S&T still possible...

No it isnt. Once an offer sheet is signed, it can only be matched or not matched. No other option.

Atlanta can later trade Smith if it wishes, but that can not happen until after season starts - and he can NOT be traded to memphis for 12 months.

ryaningf · Post #11 » by **ryaningf** » Sat Aug 9, 2008 9:25 pm

The offer sheet to Josh Smith was just another in the long line of stupid moves by Chris Wallace. Like the Hawks weren't going to match that offer. Don't talk to me about PR moves; this was just a stupid waste of time and only stupid MEM fans are going to take this as any indication that their team intends to win anytime soon. The only statement move would have been to overpay for Smith and force ATL into not matching. That was a possibility, but they blew it.

Actually, signing him probably wouldn't have helped anything anyway. Josh Smith is a weak-minded player in the mold of Lamar Odom; he can only thrive as maybe the 3rd best player on a team. Wallace's smart move may have been signing Smith to an easily matchable offer sheet. That way he won't be 'forced' to sell him off for 25 cents on the dollar in three years or so when it's clear that he's not going to carry them anywhere.

And like they couldn't have gotten a better deal for Gasol. There is just no rational way to defend Chris Wallace's track record. Wallace needs to go back to scouting, where he actually has some bit of talent.

Collinto · Post #12 » by **Collinto** » Sat Aug 9, 2008 10:54 pm

ryaningf wrote:The offer sheet to Josh Smith was just another in the long line of stupid moves by Chris Wallace. Like the Hawks weren't going to match that offer. Don't talk to me about PR moves; this was just a stupid waste of time and only stupid MEM fans are going to take this as any indication that their team intends to win anytime soon. The only statement move would have been to overpay for Smith and force ATL into not matching. That was a possibility, but they blew it.

Actually, signing him probably wouldn't have helped anything anyway. Josh Smith is a weak-minded player in the mold of Lamar Odom; he can only thrive as maybe the 3rd best player on a team. Wallace's smart move may have been signing Smith to an easily matchable offer sheet. That way he won't be 'forced' to sell him off for 25 cents on the dollar in three years or so when it's clear that he's not going to carry them anywhere.

And like they couldn't have gotten a better deal for Gasol. There is just no rational way to defend Chris Wallace's track record. Wallace needs to go back to scouting, where he actually has some bit of talent.

I couldn't disagree more. Josh Smith has a chance of being a very special player, imho. He is an uber-athlete who has continued to increase his skill set every year. You are right, he isn't a guy who carries a team, but he has an impact on the game without needing the ball, which is special in its own right. His obvious risk is maturity and mentality...but he's 22 and continues to develop his game, so I think he is worth the risk. And if you were going to take a flyer on a RFA, Atlanta has a pretty high "unpredictably stupid" rating...

As far as not having an impact on Memphis, again, I couldn't disagree more. Rudy Gay turned the corner and is a legit 20pt scorer from the wing. I think Mayo could be the class of the 08 draft. Connelly will make a huge leap this year, ala Rondo last year. Add Smith to that group of scorers/offensive/ball in their hands types and his athleticism and his ability to "thrive as the 3rd best player" and I think it would have been a great fit.

I'd go as far as saying that Memphis would have had the best young talent in the league...

Post #13 » by **ParticleMan** » Sat Aug 9, 2008 11:25 pm

You can tell how dumb a move it was by how quickly Atlanta matched it. At least Wallace could have made an offer that Atlanta would have to think twice about matching.

DelMonte West · Post #14 » by **DelMonte West** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:59 am

I don't really blame Wallace for the Gasol trade. Numerous writers and NBA analysts (Bob Ryan, JVG to name a couple) have inferred it was pushed on him by Micheal Heisley, the team's owner.

Rocky5000 · Post #15 » by **Rocky5000** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 2:54 am

ParticleMan wrote:You can tell how dumb a move it was by how quickly Atlanta matched it. At least Wallace could have made an offer that Atlanta would have to think twice about matching.

Yeah, it seems like by signing Smith to a relatively low offer sheet, he ended up doing Atlanta a favor.

Collinto · Post #16 » by **Collinto** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:43 am

Rocky5000 wrote:
ParticleMan wrote:You can tell how dumb a move it was by how quickly Atlanta matched it. At least Wallace could have made an offer that Atlanta would have to think twice about matching.

Yeah, it seems like by signing Smith to a relatively low offer sheet, he ended up doing Atlanta a favor.

That makes no sense. Are you suggesting that Josh Smith and his agent signed a lower amount with Memphis than Atlanta was offering?

Edit: Found this one ESPN:

Smith was desperately trying to get out of Atlanta and the Hawks weren't budging from a lowball offer of $45 million over five years.

So Wallace upped the anti by 13 million or 28%, FWIW.

sam_I_am · Post #17 » by **sam_I_am** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:26 pm

Rocky5000 wrote:
ParticleMan wrote:You can tell how dumb a move it was by how quickly Atlanta matched it. At least Wallace could have made an offer that Atlanta would have to think twice about matching.

Yeah, it seems like by signing Smith to a relatively low offer sheet, he ended up doing Atlanta a favor.

He has proven once again that he is really unmatched when he comes to doing teams favors. Add Josh Smith to his impressive resume of Joe Johnson, Vin Baker, and Pao Gasol in a mere 3 seasons in charge.

Post #18 » by **ParticleMan** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 5:48 pm

sam_I_am wrote:
Rocky5000 wrote:
ParticleMan wrote:You can tell how dumb a move it was by how quickly Atlanta matched it. At least Wallace could have made an offer that Atlanta would have to think twice about matching.

Yeah, it seems like by signing Smith to a relatively low offer sheet, he ended up doing Atlanta a favor.

He has proven once again that he is really unmatched when he comes to doing teams favors. Add Josh Smith to his impressive resume of Joe Johnson, Vin Baker, and Pao Gasol in a mere 3 seasons in charge.

LOL exactly. I bet other GMs love this guy. He's like that guy who you love to invite to poker because they have no clue but are willing to put their money down.

ryaningf · Post #19 » by **ryaningf** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:38 pm

Collinto wrote:
ryaningf wrote:The offer sheet to Josh Smith was just another in the long line of stupid moves by Chris Wallace. Like the Hawks weren't going to match that offer. Don't talk to me about PR moves; this was just a stupid waste of time and only stupid MEM fans are going to take this as any indication that their team intends to win anytime soon. The only statement move would have been to overpay for Smith and force ATL into not matching. That was a possibility, but they blew it.

Actually, signing him probably wouldn't have helped anything anyway. Josh Smith is a weak-minded player in the mold of Lamar Odom; he can only thrive as maybe the 3rd best player on a team. Wallace's smart move may have been signing Smith to an easily matchable offer sheet. That way he won't be 'forced' to sell him off for 25 cents on the dollar in three years or so when it's clear that he's not going to carry them anywhere.

And like they couldn't have gotten a better deal for Gasol. There is just no rational way to defend Chris Wallace's track record. Wallace needs to go back to scouting, where he actually has some bit of talent.

I couldn't disagree more. Josh Smith has a chance of being a very special player, imho. He is an uber-athlete who has continued to increase his skill set every year. You are right, he isn't a guy who carries a team, but he has an impact on the game without needing the ball, which is special in its own right. His obvious risk is maturity and mentality...but he's 22 and continues to develop his game, so I think he is worth the risk. And if you were going to take a flyer on a RFA, Atlanta has a pretty high "unpredictably stupid" rating...

As far as not having an impact on Memphis, again, I couldn't disagree more. Rudy Gay turned the corner and is a legit 20pt scorer from the wing. I think Mayo could be the class of the 08 draft. Connelly will make a huge leap this year, ala Rondo last year. Add Smith to that group of scorers/offensive/ball in their hands types and his athleticism and his ability to "thrive as the 3rd best player" and I think it would have been a great fit.

I'd go as far as saying that Memphis would have had the best young talent in the league...

I couldn't disagree more with your disagreement

Josh Smith has very special talent, especially in shot blocking. But his heart and his mind are not strong enough to even come close to fulfilling his very special talent. He's a waste along the lines of Lamar Odom: like Odom he does many good or great things during the course of a game. And also like Odom, you cannot count on him. And even if he's your 3rd best player, he's probably going to cost you in the end. If you can, just re-watch game 7 in the first round. Smith pulled one of the greatest no-shows in recent memory, failing to compete or even care as the Hawks got utterly demolished and you could see it in his eyes from the very tip. Sure, it's one game and he's young; but a complete lack of effort and intensity in a game of that magnitude is usually a sign of a deeper and uncorrectable personality flaw. Simply put, he does not compete every night and the Hawks would be better off going to war with players that do, like Horford or Joe Johnson.

As for Memphis, I don't give a hoot about young talent. We might have had the best young talent in the league in 2006-2007, but all it got us was the 2nd worst record in the league. Until Memphis shows that it's willing and able to transform that talent into a winning team, they'll just be a big pile of nothing, regardless of what Conley, Gay, Mayo, or Arthur may or may not become. And what are the chances that Memphis will transform these pieces into a championship team? Even if Wallace had the ability to pull off a trade similar to Danny's trades for Ray and KG (and that's a huge huge if), would the ownership being willing to pay for it? Nope.

Gomes3PC · Post #20 » by **Gomes3PC** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:28 am

The problem with Wallace is that despite the fact that he has a great eye for talent (he has been known to write tons of pages for scouting reports preparing for the draft) and an excellent repoire with the other coaches/media, he just has no ability to build a TEAM. He makes crazy trades, builds up talent at the expense of massive imbalances on his roster, and never seems to settle on a plan for his team. Granted, he has been saddled with some terrible ownerships that have told him to cut salaries at all costs, but there have been much better jobs are rebuilding than the ones that Wallace has constructed.