ImageImageImage

Spanish National team makin some friends

Moderators: bisme37, Froob, Darthlukey, Shak_Celts, Parliament10, canman1971, shackles10, snowman

Should this picture be perceived, in your opinion, the least bit offensive/racist?

Yes
24
62%
No
15
38%
 
Total votes: 39

PPAW4Life
Banned User
Posts: 1,546
And1: 1
Joined: Nov 23, 2007

Re: Spanish National team makin some friends 

Post#121 » by PPAW4Life » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:11 pm

GuyClinch wrote:
Ok ok. I give up. Yes, we should kill citizens of every country that doesn't bow down to the US. Happy now? People like you really need to experience war to see how horrible it is. It's pathetic that you cry for some dogs Michael Vick made to fight each other, while you feel like these people deserve to have their families killed, limbs blown off, cities destroyed, etc. All because they are "brown terrorists."


Way to dance around point. You give up because your support a position that no thinking person would. A country demands 50% of our countries gross profits - and you would give it to them. Because <g> War is only an option when we are being "invaded" because its so terrible.

People fly planes into the US killing 3000 - and OMG war isn't an option. Why? becaues they didn't invade us.

The Germans kill off millions of jews in concentration camps and march into the countries of our allies and war isn't an option for you because we weren't invaded.

LMAO. Your lame attempt to turn any oppostion to your ridiculous view into the idea that we should blow up any country that doesn't bow down to us is some weak sauce. I never said that and of course no thinking person would.

I personally don't think the Iraq war was justified. That doesn't mean the ONLY reason to go to war is an invasion of our soil.

As I said before this country was started with a war because of taxation without representation. Essentially the British were robbing us. Do you think the revolutionary war was unjust? There are some thing worth fighting for.

Pete


Well to be fair terrorists did invade our country and posed as "normal citizens" duping us into training them and "arming them". The 9/11 attacks do not happen if the terrorists do not enter our country and intel suggests that the plans of 9/11 were known well before the time it occurred without any action by our administration.

Our own Revolutionary War may have been started because of "taxation without representation" but the ignition of the war was over the Intolerable Acts most notably the closing of the port of Boston and the Quartering Act which allowed British troops to occupy the colonies and take whatever housing they saw fit if it was not provided for them. A previous Quartering Act had the colonies providing the stationed British troops during the French and Indian War but the troops remained even after the French was defeated and the war was over! In essence the British troops invaded not only our land but our homes as well to enforce unjustified and unconstitutional laws which we had no say in ourselves.

Most of these Acts were passed even after the Boston Massacre where British troops slayed "a mob" of Bostonian citizens who were not armed with guns. These killings do not happen if the British troops were allowed to remain in the colonies AFTER the French and Indian War was over!

And yes you can say the "bad guys" during the World Wars and even the global conflicts in recent times never had a direct "invasion" on to U.S. soil....but they did attack and invaded our allies soil and it's obvious that if you attack our friends we would come to aid....yet in most cases the U.S. were slow in direct aid and reluctant to get directly involved because they knew war meant death and they were not going to send boys over to die unless it was the last resort.

War on Iraq does not seem like a last resort. There was no invasion of another country and no hiding of weapons of mass destruction. Their leader is defeated and dead (reportedly) and now we are still over there for what?
User avatar
tombattor
General Manager
Posts: 8,662
And1: 807
Joined: Nov 11, 2003
       

Re: Spanish National team makin some friends 

Post#122 » by tombattor » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:34 pm

GuyClinch wrote:Way to dance around point. You give up because your support a position that no thinking person would. A country demands 50% of our countries gross profits - and you would give it to them. Because <g> War is only an option when we are being "invaded" because its so terrible.

People fly planes into the US killing 3000 - and OMG war isn't an option. Why? becaues they didn't invade us.

The Germans kill off millions of jews in concentration camps and march into the countries of our allies and war isn't an option for you because we weren't invaded.

LMAO. Your lame attempt to turn any oppostion to your ridiculous view into the idea that we should blow up any country that doesn't bow down to us is some weak sauce. I never said that and of course no thinking person would.

I personally don't think the Iraq war was justified. That doesn't mean the ONLY reason to go to war is an invasion of our soil.

As I said before this country was started with a war because of taxation without representation. Essentially the British were robbing us. Do you think the revolutionary war was unjust? There are some thing worth fighting for.

Pete

Ok, you are right. That was my mistake in saying that only time you should go to war is when your country is being invaded. There are other reasons for war than invasion of our soil. We can justify war, when we go into help weaker countries, etc. Such examples in our recent history are as you said, we had to go to war against Germans as they were trying to wipe out Jews and as they invaded Poland, which I think caused us to enter the fray. Same thing for the Korean War. We had to go because North Korea aided by Russia and China, invaded South Korea.

At least when the father Bush started the Gulf War, Iraq invaded Kuwait, so the war was somewhat justified. However, this war in Iraq was triggered by nothing but our desire to steal their oil.
User avatar
chakdaddy
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,378
And1: 1,420
Joined: Nov 24, 2006

Re: Spanish National team makin some friends 

Post#123 » by chakdaddy » Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:53 am

bruno sundov wrote:
The war on rerrorism is essentially a religious war. You have people, muslim terrorist who hat us and freedoms of religions and choice. So they try and cripple us. Once they do that we have every right to go in there and just crush them. That is what we are doing now and it is working. Ask any soldier they will tell you the Irais people like us and we ahve given them true independence.


That's just xenophobic garbage. Terrorism is not a religion. Terrorism is terrorism. And by the way, which are we trying to do, "go in there and crush them", or liberate them and "give them true independence.?" And why don't we go to war and crush them when Christian terrorists bomb abortion clinics?

So anyway, who do you mean when you say crush "them"? Terrorists? Terrorists' neighbors? People that you think look like terrorists? Look, garbage like this with completely imprecise language equating individual criminals and criminal groups with entire cultures, and equating the criminals/terrorists to some sort of monolithic sovereign entity that is possible to go to war with, is exactly what makes people look at us as some sort of crusader out to get them and drives more people to become terrorists and participate in crime. So if you want work against terrorism, develop some accuracy about who you call terrorists and try not to alienate the people you need on your side if you want to effectively combat terrorism.

bruno sundov wrote:that is what 911 was. A battle on US soil.


Garbage. It was a terrorist attack on US soil. Not a battle.

bruno sundov wrote:[b]yes it is a war . it is a war on terrorism.


How can you have a war against a concept? Are you Don Quixote? When we defeat "terrorism" in this war, can we draw up a treaty with "the terrorists" and then abandon all our counter-terrorism measures since the war is over? Can the police all retire when we finally win the "war on drugs."???
User avatar
CeltsfanSinceBirth
RealGM
Posts: 23,818
And1: 34,893
Joined: Jul 29, 2003
     

Re: Spanish National team makin some friends 

Post#124 » by CeltsfanSinceBirth » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:06 am

bruno sundov wrote:

Gun control? We couldn't have anymore laws on guns. What are you talking about? How else would you protect yourself? Throwing stones and whatever else you get your hands on. It is a constitutional right to bear arms. You should be proud that you have this choice of freedom.



:lol: When was the last time you heard of a citizen stopping a terrorist attack through the use of a licensed firearm?
bruno sundov
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,777
And1: 13
Joined: Jan 03, 2007
Location: Leftcoast of the USA

Re: Spanish National team makin some friends 

Post#125 » by bruno sundov » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:59 am

CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
bruno sundov wrote:

Gun control? We couldn't have anymore laws on guns. What are you talking about? How else would you protect yourself? Throwing stones and whatever else you get your hands on. It is a constitutional right to bear arms. You should be proud that you have this choice of freedom.



:lol: When was the last time you heard of a citizen stopping a terrorist attack through the use of a licensed firearm?


OK. It is well documented there haven't been many terrorist attacks on US soil. Think of how many home invasions or robberies of business it stops. The criminal are going to get the guns anyways that is the need for a level playing field. Anyways you guys are obviously at the opposite end of the spectrum than I am. So in saying that, what the Spanish team did was racist. Or are we to busy bashing the americans now?
User avatar
tombattor
General Manager
Posts: 8,662
And1: 807
Joined: Nov 11, 2003
       

Re: Spanish National team makin some friends 

Post#126 » by tombattor » Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:40 pm

IMO, lack of gun control creates a lot more gun-related violence than the citizens with licensed guns preventing crime.
User avatar
MyInsatiableOne
General Manager
Posts: 9,319
And1: 180
Joined: Mar 25, 2005
Location: Midwest via New England
Contact:
     

Re: Spanish National team makin some friends 

Post#127 » by MyInsatiableOne » Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:52 pm

tombattor wrote:
GuyClinch wrote:Way to dance around point. You give up because your support a position that no thinking person would. A country demands 50% of our countries gross profits - and you would give it to them. Because <g> War is only an option when we are being "invaded" because its so terrible.

People fly planes into the US killing 3000 - and OMG war isn't an option. Why? becaues they didn't invade us.

The Germans kill off millions of jews in concentration camps and march into the countries of our allies and war isn't an option for you because we weren't invaded.

LMAO. Your lame attempt to turn any oppostion to your ridiculous view into the idea that we should blow up any country that doesn't bow down to us is some weak sauce. I never said that and of course no thinking person would.

I personally don't think the Iraq war was justified. That doesn't mean the ONLY reason to go to war is an invasion of our soil.

As I said before this country was started with a war because of taxation without representation. Essentially the British were robbing us. Do you think the revolutionary war was unjust? There are some thing worth fighting for.

Pete

Ok, you are right. That was my mistake in saying that only time you should go to war is when your country is being invaded. There are other reasons for war than invasion of our soil. We can justify war, when we go into help weaker countries, etc. Such examples in our recent history are as you said, we had to go to war against Germans as they were trying to wipe out Jews and as they invaded Poland, which I think caused us to enter the fray. Same thing for the Korean War. We had to go because North Korea aided by Russia and China, invaded South Korea.

At least when the father Bush started the Gulf War, Iraq invaded Kuwait, so the war was somewhat justified. However, this war in Iraq was triggered by nothing but our desire to steal their oil.



tombattor, you know you're my guy, but I'm so tired of hearing this old tired liberal bromide...if this were true, and we now own a huge vast reserve of oil in the middle east (Iraq), then tell me again why we are paying $4/gallon for gas??
It's still 17 to 11!!!!
User avatar
MyInsatiableOne
General Manager
Posts: 9,319
And1: 180
Joined: Mar 25, 2005
Location: Midwest via New England
Contact:
     

Re: Spanish National team makin some friends 

Post#128 » by MyInsatiableOne » Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:57 pm

tombattor wrote:IMO, lack of gun control creates a lot more gun-related violence than the citizens with licensed guns preventing crime.


Again, I respectfully disagree. The crooks will find a way to get guns no matter what. It's the threat of random civilians with guns that keeps most crooks from robbing homes, mugging people, etc...they never know when they'll be shot.

Look at England...handgun ban for citizens since the 1990s and SKYROCKETING numbers of home robberies, murders, muggings, rapes, etc. Same thing in Washington, DC...one of the highest crime rates in the nation.

I know it's cheesy but it's true, that old saying "if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns"...this is 100% true. Bad people will find a way to circumvent the laws no matter what (see: drugs, hookers, etc)

Also, the right to bear arms was put into the Constitution to protect the citizens from the governments! And with the increasing intrusion into our private lives by the slow socialization of America, this is a good thing and a right I fully intend to exercise (again, no handguns for private citizens, see: USSR, China, Cuba, North Korea, etc). Again, an oldie but goodie, "fear a government that doesn't fear its citizens"...
It's still 17 to 11!!!!
User avatar
tombattor
General Manager
Posts: 8,662
And1: 807
Joined: Nov 11, 2003
       

Re: Spanish National team makin some friends 

Post#129 » by tombattor » Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:16 pm

MyInsatiableOne, we usually agree on Celtics matters, but as you said, I'll have to disagree with you here also...

My take is that if there were stricter gun control laws, there will be less guns around and less gun-related violence. Yes, some crooks will be able to still get them, if they have good connections. However, even for them, it'll be much more difficult and less available.

Japan, for example, is the 2nd richest country in the world by a huge margin. And we know they have a huge organize crime in Yakuza. So there is money and there are criminals with some great connections. However, because of their strict gun control, they still can't just go around shooting up places because it's just that much harder for them to pull it off. So if Yakuza's unable to do that, the small time criminals will have even tougher time getting them. In turn, when someone is murdered, it has to be done using a non-firearm which is a lot tougher than just pulling a trigger. The difficulty alone would reduce the number of violent crimes. Maybe more people will get beat up or stabbed, but those you have a much better chance at surviving those than a gun shot.

If the kid in Virginia Tech had to get guns through his illegal connections, I'm not sure if the situation would have been as bad. For one thing, the kid didn't seem like someone who can make friends/connections that easily and who knows if he would have been able to get as many bullets or even the type of guns that can fire so many bullets in short time. Maybe he could have, but it would have been much much more difficult to pull off.

Bottom line is, I'm not saying that stricter gun control will eliminate all violent crimes, but it'll definitely make it more difficult to commit one.
sam_I_am
RealGM
Posts: 16,718
And1: 9,498
Joined: Jul 10, 2004

Re: Spanish National team makin some friends 

Post#130 » by sam_I_am » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:19 pm

tombattor wrote:
GuyClinch wrote:Way to dance around point. You give up because your support a position that no thinking person would. A country demands 50% of our countries gross profits - and you would give it to them. Because <g> War is only an option when we are being "invaded" because its so terrible.

People fly planes into the US killing 3000 - and OMG war isn't an option. Why? becaues they didn't invade us.

The Germans kill off millions of jews in concentration camps and march into the countries of our allies and war isn't an option for you because we weren't invaded.

LMAO. Your lame attempt to turn any oppostion to your ridiculous view into the idea that we should blow up any country that doesn't bow down to us is some weak sauce. I never said that and of course no thinking person would.

I personally don't think the Iraq war was justified. That doesn't mean the ONLY reason to go to war is an invasion of our soil.

As I said before this country was started with a war because of taxation without representation. Essentially the British were robbing us. Do you think the revolutionary war was unjust? There are some thing worth fighting for.

Pete

Ok, you are right. That was my mistake in saying that only time you should go to war is when your country is being invaded. There are other reasons for war than invasion of our soil. We can justify war, when we go into help weaker countries, etc. Such examples in our recent history are as you said, we had to go to war against Germans as they were trying to wipe out Jews and as they invaded Poland, which I think caused us to enter the fray. Same thing for the Korean War. We had to go because North Korea aided by Russia and China, invaded South Korea.

At least when the father Bush started the Gulf War, Iraq invaded Kuwait, so the war was somewhat justified. However, this war in Iraq was triggered by nothing but our desire to steal their oil.



We did go to war with Germany in WWII but saving the victims of concentration camps was never one of the reasons. And Germany invaded Poland we did nothing to stop them. When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor that pretty much meant that we were at war with Japan and all of their allies. We already knew about the camps for years before Pearl Harbor.

I cannot recall a single major war in our history where we pretty much started a war when no actual fighting was already underway before this Iraq war. Taliban pretty much declared war on the US by training Al Qaeda. Gulf War we entered after invasion of Kuwait. Vietnam and Korea were already at war. WW2, WW1 the same. I could be wrong but I believe that George W. Bush is the very first president to actually start a war without provocation.
"I think the criticism's stupid," Stevens said. "So I don't care. I'm with Jaylen (Brown) on that. Those two had achieved more than most 25 and 26 year olds ever had. I'd rather be in the mix and have my guts ripped out than suck."
Big Baby
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,336
And1: 656
Joined: Feb 09, 2006

Re: Spanish National team makin some friends 

Post#131 » by Big Baby » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:00 pm

MyInsatiableOne wrote:
tombattor wrote:
GuyClinch wrote:Way to dance around point. You give up because your support a position that no thinking person would. A country demands 50% of our countries gross profits - and you would give it to them. Because <g> War is only an option when we are being "invaded" because its so terrible.

People fly planes into the US killing 3000 - and OMG war isn't an option. Why? becaues they didn't invade us.

The Germans kill off millions of jews in concentration camps and march into the countries of our allies and war isn't an option for you because we weren't invaded.

LMAO. Your lame attempt to turn any oppostion to your ridiculous view into the idea that we should blow up any country that doesn't bow down to us is some weak sauce. I never said that and of course no thinking person would.

I personally don't think the Iraq war was justified. That doesn't mean the ONLY reason to go to war is an invasion of our soil.

As I said before this country was started with a war because of taxation without representation. Essentially the British were robbing us. Do you think the revolutionary war was unjust? There are some thing worth fighting for.

Pete

Ok, you are right. That was my mistake in saying that only time you should go to war is when your country is being invaded. There are other reasons for war than invasion of our soil. We can justify war, when we go into help weaker countries, etc. Such examples in our recent history are as you said, we had to go to war against Germans as they were trying to wipe out Jews and as they invaded Poland, which I think caused us to enter the fray. Same thing for the Korean War. We had to go because North Korea aided by Russia and China, invaded South Korea.

At least when the father Bush started the Gulf War, Iraq invaded Kuwait, so the war was somewhat justified. However, this war in Iraq was triggered by nothing but our desire to steal their oil.



tombattor, you know you're my guy, but I'm so tired of hearing this old tired liberal bromide...if this were true, and we now own a huge vast reserve of oil in the middle east (Iraq), then tell me again why we are paying $4/gallon for gas??


There are many reasons why gas prices have been on the rise: The rise in production costs, rising costs of crude oil and other fuel additives like ethanol, the falling value of our dollar against other currencies, the growing demand for oil around the world as China and India (2.5 billion people) continue to grow...But the bottom line is while gas prices jumped almost 400% in less than 4 years which is unheard of in any industry, oil companies have been posting record breaking profits every year since they started raising prices.

Bush and Cheney didn't take us to Iraq so that YOU can pay less for gas. They went into Iraq so that they and their friends can secure the resources that will continue to net them record profits AROUND THE WORLD for years to come. And this is why Bush and the republicans are busy antagonizing Russia over their conflict with Georgia. No matter what you hear in the corporate American media, the fact is it was Georgia that attacked and tried to invade Ossetia the way Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990. Russia simply came to the aid of their friendly neighbor where many Russians live. But Bush and the republicans will have you believe that Russia is the evildoer because there's an oil pipeline that goes right through Georgia and they do not want it under the Russian control. But they won't tell us that because too many of us don't know or care about what's really going on in that part of the world.

In the end, Bush and the republican party don't give a s**t about you. They don't care about this country or its future. They only care about themselves no matter who they end up screwing. In fact, they make a living out of screwing Americans because it's so easy to blind us with diversions, wedge issues and dumbed-down dialogues.

If you believe that actions speak louder than words, then these aren't liberal bromides. These are facts.
Big Baby
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,336
And1: 656
Joined: Feb 09, 2006

Re: Spanish National team makin some friends 

Post#132 » by Big Baby » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:06 pm

sam_I_am wrote:I cannot recall a single major war in our history where we pretty much started a war when no actual fighting was already underway before this Iraq war. Taliban pretty much declared war on the US by training Al Qaeda. Gulf War we entered after invasion of Kuwait. Vietnam and Korea were already at war. WW2, WW1 the same. I could be wrong but I believe that George W. Bush is the very first president to actually start a war without provocation.

And without the declaration of war from the congress, which means this war is illegal.
Rocky5000
Analyst
Posts: 3,386
And1: 0
Joined: Jan 15, 2008

Re: Spanish National team makin some friends 

Post#133 » by Rocky5000 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:16 pm

The reason people kill, rob, and generally break the law, isn't because they have guns. : Everyone can agree to this point I think

Guns are just a tool that can either be used for protection, or for committing crimes, it is up to the individual to decide what they use it for. The real question to answer is why are these types of crime being committed? Why does England have teenagers kicking defenseless pedestrians to death on street corners, and why does Japan have a low rate of violence, when they have similar laws? The reason is that the law just isn't a solution to the problem, because the violence problem isn't a weaponry problem, it's a social problem.

Coincidentally with a surge in crimes, the UK has seen a surge in unemployment and families adopting a lifestyle where they live off from state run programs. At the same time, the English culture has weakened from being the epitome of sophistication, that most Americans still associate with England, to being bratty and rude. Obesity rates have sky rocketed, and schools are failing. So in England, the surge in violence has come from a weakening of culture, poorly raised youth, and a declining quality of life. In my opinion, it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not they have guns.

Japan, is the opposite case. The Japanese culture is strong where respect, honor, conservation, and health are all still strong tenements of Japanese life. The economy of Japan is relatively healthy, and is still in it's industrial and technological boom. Murders and robberies aren't prevalent because the culture is opposed to such violence, and life for most is generally happy, giving nobody a reason to commit a crime in the first place.

If America wants to fix it's violence problem, we have to fix our school system, make sure anyone can attend college, improve the economy with jobs for skilled workers of all types, and the most difficult part of all, address the moral void. The only way to accomplish the last part, IMO, is to have great parents, who are paid enough to be home for their kids, and who genuinely believe in doing the right thing.
bruno sundov
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,777
And1: 13
Joined: Jan 03, 2007
Location: Leftcoast of the USA

Re: Spanish National team makin some friends 

Post#134 » by bruno sundov » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:08 am

Rocky 5000,

You can't use common sense in this discussion it is an unfair tool.
User avatar
chakdaddy
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,378
And1: 1,420
Joined: Nov 24, 2006

Re: Spanish National team makin some friends 

Post#135 » by chakdaddy » Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:28 am

Common sense says that guns are pretty darned useful for committing crimes;

common sense says that guns are a tool for shooting people and that on the whole, shooting of people should be discouraged. (Leaving hunting out of the equation for the moment)
bruno sundov
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,777
And1: 13
Joined: Jan 03, 2007
Location: Leftcoast of the USA

Re: Spanish National team makin some friends 

Post#136 » by bruno sundov » Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:45 pm

chakdaddy wrote:Common sense says that guns are pretty darned useful for committing crimes;

common sense says that guns are a tool for shooting people and that on the whole, shooting of people should be discouraged. (Leaving hunting out of the equation for the moment)



Well then you are lacking in commonsense. Why would you just want the criinals to have access to the guns? That is stupid in it self.

Return to Boston Celtics


cron