The challenge of Ray Allen as the sixth man

[BadWolf]

The real question here is who would we put in the starting 2 spot. Tony Allen? Cmon... we need a shooter in the starting 5 with Rondo at 1.

[captain_cheapseats]

I disagree with the idea for two reasons. First, I generally think it's a bad idea to bring one of the Big Three off the bench for the reasons explained well by GuyClinch:

starting players who play the most minutes gives them more useful rest. That's why you start your best players.

If your going to play Ray Allen 35+ minutes it makes no sense to bring him off the bench. In a nutshell..that "rest" you get on the bench doesn't help you because at that time your are NOT TIRED.

A normal starter might play in the first (rest end of second/start of third) then play in third then rest end of third/start of fourth and then close out the game. If you try to work 35 minutes to a bench player...

You end up with him playing ALOT of "unrested" minutes.

Now, I don't think this means you should never bring a star off the bench. Rather it's that you should only bring a star off the bench if he is a guy who can stay on the court for extended periods without a drop-off in play. So if you have a Gilbert Arenas type on your team who can play 48 mins straight without getting tired then sure, bring him in off the bench if it suits your purposes. But Ray Allen isn't one of those guys.....he's a better player when given sporadic breaks throughout the game.

Second, even if we were to ignore the first point and decide to bring one of the Big Three off the bench anyway, that guy would be Pierce, not Allen. Unlike Allen, Pierce has two unique skills that allow him to carry a second unit: (1) he is incredibly versatile, which allows him to compensate for a wide array of short-comings in the players around him, and (2) he has the ability to draw fouls, and hence slow the pace of the game waaaay down when the scrubs are on the floor.

[campybatman]

Pierce off the bench makes no more sense right now than Ray off the bench. Both should be regular starters. Like the question which asks who would start at shooting guard instead of Ray. The next question would be who would start instead of Pierce at small forward. I would prefer to be concern about a position back up than who'll even start.

The idea of Ray Allen as the sixth man is bound to come up by those in the local and national media or among fans due to the fact that of the three All-Stars Ray's the oldest and the closest to reaching the point of a contract extension. If his skills were drastically on the decline and his salary for the next two seasons didn't place him as the third and second highest on the team. Then perhaps you could suggest the idea of bringing him off the bench without necessarily going through with it. Again, I believe Reggie Miller remain a starter for Indiana well past his prime. So, Ray could finish his NBA career as a starter. His minutes will be the one thing that obviously changes due to age. But, it doesn't hurt to have a shooter of his caliber starting for you. Unless he were to become one dimensional offensively. Still, if you're a shooter making your shots. The defense still must defend you and won't gain too much of the advantage defensively if you no longer drive to the basket anymore. A scorer is going to score points regardless of his limitations as he gets older. Health is his only enemy.

Edit: Looking over Reggie Miller's NBA career, it's clear that he was a primary starter for all of his career as a Pacer except during his rookie season and whenever he was injured.

[celticfan42487]

Ray Allen's game isn't suited for off the bench like Manu.

Manu is much more a Pierce then a Ray Allen where he not only can create offense, he does so very well. Manu is a spot up shooter like Pierce.. he just is more of a pure shooter and less of a bulky driver then Pierce.

Ray Allen however is a volume shooter; coming off the bench won't help him jack up shots... and it won't help him get open looks for those shots.


And all the Big 3's numbers should look good after the AS break. They hardly played. Hell I think we had at least 6 games where the fourth quarter was finished by our second unit last year post-AS break.

[Jammer]

Ludicrous topic, but everyone is entitled to their opine-yun.

Hopefully Tony Allen or J. R. Giddens aren't total crap and Ray doesn't have to lead the team in minutes per game again.

And there are a lot of coaches who use MPG as the gauge of a team's Most Valuable Player.

[Gomes3PC]

I think it would be a big mistake to take Ray off the bench. You never know with a shooter like that how he will react. Shooters need a rhythm and if he starts out the game by cooling on the bench he might not get anythign going.

Yes, Tony Allen plays better as a starter and with defined minutes, but I don't think it is worth risking Ray Allen's tempo and feel for the game. Sam Cassell said it last year- it's extremely difficult to come off the bench after being a starter your whole career. It's like jumping in midstream at 60 MPH when you're going 30. Some guys just don't do that well.

Keep Ray as the starter, but give Tony a defined period each game to get into the game (preferably the start of the 2nd quarter when PP or Ray need a breather). Tony can succeed for this team, so long as he trusts his body is 100% and he plays in control (two BIG if's, mind you).

[MoBSTa]

Whom ever started this should write the top 10 each night for Letterman. J.R.Giddens has a better chance starting than Tony Allen. Gidden avg 9 rebs a game at the Guard spot his senior year.

Not to mention, Giddens beside Rondo is alot more of a threat to attack the interior of a defense and they both could flourish in the pick'n roll. with one on the weak side and the other on the strong, that should spread the opposing teams defense while it also gives the Celtics a huge rebounding advantage with the backcourt.

As players grow older, and tend to slow down as a coach I would think you would want to add abilities to the team that may give the opposing teams coach a migraine headache.

I look forward to seeing this one day, though not next season and maybe not even the following season. For crying out loud, We have Jesus at the 2 and maybe one of the best shooters to ever play the game.

Though, I can't help myself from panting like a Male dog chasing after a female dog in heat, when I think about Rondo and Giddens in the backcourt together.

I guess they say you have to be able to drain the three at the 2, I know Giddens has a little range and his ability to get to the rim like Rondo may give Pierce, Ray Allen and KG open looks from mid range all day.

I guess what I am saying, I could see a backcourt of Rondo and Giddens in the future with Ray Allen at the 3 Pierce at the 4 and KG at the 5.

I believe that they could thrive even more from team defense as long as Giddens could handel the transion from Collage to the NBA.

Giddens, is a 4 year Collage Player, and great 2's have fallin this far before in the draft, just look at Arenas. With great big men becoming more and more of an after thought, and nearly every team gambling on getting that next great big man, it may have become more of a reality for very good 2's to fall deep into the draft.

While you guy's can't think of nothing better to write about, maybe you can figure out a way to swindle Travis Outlaw from Portland.