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A question that comes up every year

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OBisHalJordan
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Re: A question that comes up every year 

Post#41 » by OBisHalJordan » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:10 pm

GuyClinch wrote:^^^ Poor toine.

I really disagree. Toine was not some uber-talented underachiever. Toine was an overachiever. He wasn't a talented but dumb player. He was a crafty if somewhat misguided player. Most of his "talent" is related to his skill level.

But physically he was awful. Toine has short arms. Toine has poor jumping ability. Toine has mediocre quickness. I'd say talent wise his body is close to BBD. Where is all this talent? It's just not there. Like BBD he had a big behind and new how to grab rebounds. But that more skill then physical talent.

But all we hear is OMG he didn't play inside enough. You know what he DID. He got his shot blocked more then just about anyone in the NBA down low. Toine WAS NOT AN EFFECTIVE POST SCORER. Sure he had some moves but they were very difficult ones because of his poor physical ability. Toine WOULD take advantage of smaller guys on him. But against bigger guys he wasn't exactly a force.

So what does he do - he hoists up tons of long range jumpers. Why? At 35% or so it's just as good as shooting inside for a guy like Toine. And yes this helps your career. You boost your PPG - you boost your chances of making the all-star game. It's sad but true. Toine calculated that being a volume shooter was the best way to go - and that's what he did.

Selfish - sure. But Toine wasn't on the precipice of greatness. He was choosing between a career with an all-star game or two and a career like Donyell Marshalls - a soild roleplayer.

He also hustled on the court and worked hard for his team. he tried his best on defense (which admittedly with short arms and no vertical he wasn't exactly a terror).

Toine had no chance of being in the rafters.. HIs talent level was closer to Eric Williams or Ryan Gomes then PPs. I think people saw his guard like skills and assumed he was just amazingly talented. It's not fair to Toine.. Don't confuse some crafty play with being insanely talented. toine had a profound lack of team first kind of wisdom. But on the court he was crafty if self-centered.

What's ironic is that IMHO it's PP who has this great reserve of talent. PP plays this workman like game but he was always the really talented one. Even now people think OMG how can you even compare PP to a guy like Kobe. But talentwise he is there. He kinda coasts until he really needs to step up and dominate. But he can do it. He just took over gainst Kobe..

Pete


Pete, that's a real interesting take. What do you think would have been Walker's best case career scenario would have been or do you think his career as such is the best he could have done? I know this basically and irrelevant counter-factual and asks you do to a lot of supposing but I'd like to hear your take.
bruno sundov
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Re: A question that comes up every year 

Post#42 » by bruno sundov » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:42 am

Best case scenario he would be lamar Odom. OK second option much better third option. They are essentially the same game with LO being able to jump.
DelMonte West
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Re: A question that comes up every year 

Post#43 » by DelMonte West » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:42 pm

Spot-on take, Pete.

As for comparisons, I'd say a best-case Toine is a poor man's Derrick Coleman. Similar builds, at least moreso than Lamar Odom. You could argue Toine has more passion but is definitely less athletic across the boards than DC. Both have that "underachiever"/dubious reputation label, although as Pete said I think Walker's actual talent tends to be inflated due to his numbers while dominating the ball. And both were reputed to be great post players but tended to settle for jumpers and were good ball-handlers for their size.

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