Celtics vs Nuggets - Friday, November 14th ESPN

[Jammer]

Tonight's loss to the Nuggets exposed the Celtics weaknesses.

1. Lack of a post game; although Garnett, Pierce and Powe have limited post up abilities.

2. Only 4 shooters (Ray, Paul, Eddie, Kevin); with Garnett in an outside shooting slump going back to pre-season. Garnett appears to be off balance when he takes many of his misses.

3. Only 1 shooter off the bench (Eddie).

4. Losing Posey's ability to spread the floor makes it tougher for Tony Allen and Rondo to drive.

5. No inside game from backup center (Glen Davis).

6. Limited scoring from two starters (Rajon, Kendrick);
coupled with only one scorer off bench (Eddie House)
means low scoring total per game (94 per game vs. last year's 100.5).

The team is extremely dependent on the top 8 players;
literally needing 6 of them to be on (includes Tony, Eddie and Leon off bench).

[el loco]

Bumpy? I think Doc beat on Billups over/under why else would he [lay eddie house that many mins?

Ask Tommy, you don't win many games from outside in....
You also can't win if you don't have some type of set rotation...
Doc lost this game, not the players...

Doc was simply out coached tonight.....
my gawd, who would you play to defend billups? Rondo or House?

sad, eddies little boy may have coached a better game....

Yeah...well sometimes that happens....

ps....Doc didn't make all those turnovers in the 1st half, did he....or shoot so poorly...or can't shoot foul shots...or oh never mind.

What is wrong with Garnett? He doesn't seem to be playing with the same intensity that he had last season. I noticed he was settling for jump shots tonight, has he been doing this a lot this season?

[AlCelticFan]

Hopefully Danny is looking for ways to flesh out our bench. It is still the beginning of the season, there is much time for us to perfect our team for the playoffs.

[Spud34]

Anyone know why Doc to Pierce out with 7 left to play? We were down 8 at that point.

[Kefa461]

Tonight's loss to the Nuggets exposed the Celtics weaknesses.

1. Lack of a post game; although Garnett, Pierce and Powe have limited post up abilities.

2. Only 4 shooters (Ray, Paul, Eddie, Kevin); with Garnett in an outside shooting slump going back to pre-season. Garnett appears to be off balance when he takes many of his misses.

3. Only 1 shooter off the bench (Eddie).

4. Losing Posey's ability to spread the floor makes it tougher for Tony Allen and Rondo to drive.

5. No inside game from backup center (Glen Davis).

6. Limited scoring from two starters (Rajon, Kendrick);
coupled with only one scorer off bench (Eddie House)
means low scoring total per game (94 per game vs. last year's 100.5).

The team is extremely dependent on the top 8 players;
literally needing 6 of them to be on (includes Tony, Eddie and Leon off bench).

Just because things don't work for you that game doesn't mean it's a season weakness....most teams don't go more then 8 deep anyways. Rondo and Perk are still getting their game. They are very young. TA is still getting his legs under him, Baby is young as is Powe.....the bench is very young except House. It will take a bit.....It been 10 games to get over Posey and it will take time. He was the anchor of the 2nd unit.

[threrf23]

Well between the soft fouls on Kleiza/Billups, getting outrebounded by one of the worst defensive rebounding teams in the league (statistically this season), picking on Nene/Balkman at times (their two best defenders, easily), Ray being benched for awhile while red hot in the first half, and whatever else, just not a solid game tonight...

[Jammer]

Anyone know why Doc to Pierce out with 7 left to play? We were down 8 at that point.

When Pierce had the ball stolen from him in the double team,
it was due to being stupid.

He should have passed to one of his teammates when he had the chance,
rather than holding the ball and letting the double team form.
You could see it coming.

That was why Doc Rivers sat him down, for pulling a boneheaded move.

Havlicek would never have deliberately let a double team form,
he would have passed the ball before he could be trapped.

Pierce does stupid crap like that every now and then.

Sad.

[Al-Haqq]

I didn't mind too much that Doc took Pierce out only because he put KG and Ray back in.

[Red2]

I agree that doc was a dope for benching allen to start the 2nd qtr when ray was red hot. at times doc sticks to his formula too much insted of adjusting to what players are doing. leon has been brutal so why not play POB? he couldn't have been any worse than leon last night. I think our team has serious flaws- the most significant being that our bench just isn't that good. for every point that eddie scores he gives up one at the other end or in a turnover. teams are now playing tony for the drive because they know he can't shoot and teams are also prepared for leon to post up. Glenn davis could be a big help if he were to hit the outside shot on a consistent basis but so far that's not happening. I really think we need another shooter who can open things up for the second unit. ray allen as 6th man still makes some sense to me. start tony allen who will help defensively and then bring ray off the bench. Finally rondo has to play better. he has to start taking the outside shot and also he has to finish at the rim and stop kicking the ball out when he has a layup.

[Jammer]

... Ray Allen as 6th man still makes some sense to me. start tony allen who will help defensively and then bring Ray off the bench.

Red2: I normally love your posts.

This is crazy. Why do I say something harsh?

Ray Allen is the only Celtic who has exceeded expectations this year.
Paul Pierce and Ray Allen are clearly the class of the team,
although Pierce's 40% shooting percentage has made life tough for them this season.

Garnett's shooting funk (drop from 56% to 48%) not only affects his scoring, but Garnett is shooting less. Instead of being the leading power forward that's he's been for 10 years he's between LaMarcus Aldridge and Kenyon Martin right now.

Despite Pierce's heroics, last year he was a top 10 player in the league. He's not this year.
And he wasn't last night, though he seems to be out of his funk.

So, when you lose a top 5 player, and a top 10 player (Pierce is shooting 40%, not particularly good for someone who claims he's the MVP).

And, to make matters worse, Eddie House is shooting in the toilet, and scoring less accordingly. House is getting his shots, he's just not hitting them (although he had 13 against Denver).

Rondo is playing worse than last year, mainly due to his inability to hit a shot, and teams know to play Rondo for the drive or the drive and pass.

Perk is not playing as well as last year, although he's playing about the same as he was at this point last season. Perhaps he will regain his end of season form as he gets back to full steam from his shoulder injury.

Tony Allen is not a shooter, and Tony shoots WAY BETTER THAN WALKER or GIDDENS.
So, the Celtics have 3 shooting guards on their roster that can't shoot, but just want to drive.
Teams know to play Tony for the drive, so they back off him like they do Rondo.
Ray Allen is the only shooting guard out of 4 on the roster who can actually shoot.

Powe is 6' 6", and bigger stronger guys (Kenyon Martin) can shut him down. So can the Lakers.

So, I'm sorry to disagree, but two way, I think that Ray is the only guy exceeding expectations, and when 82games.com comes out with their new numbers (every Tuesday), I think that you'll see Ray at the top of the Celtics NET PER list, with Garnett WAY OFF from last year
(from +16 to +5, that's a huge drop, and it's mainly due to his shooting %).

Of course, what' also killing the Celtics is that after their top 8 men, they have total crap.
Glen Davis is completely ineffective offensively,
teams don't leave him alone under the basket like they did last year.

Pruitt can't even get on the court to clang,
which means Doc feels that Pruitt is light years behind House,
whose shooting % this year indicates the basket should be as big as one.

And POB, who has size, can't get on the court ahead of inept Davis.
That's sad for POB and the Celtics.

And Scal, in his limited time this year, isn't half as good as he was last year.

But the biggest drop offs from last year have been from Garnett and House.

That still doesn't solve the weaknesses in players 4 thru 10.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

The C's are still a very formidable and dangerous basketball team. But the bench problem kind of was always evident even last year. The magic in beantown was there though so I guess it was okay. But here's the thing. Perkins sucked. Always has, always will. Don't expect more then his averages. Rondo will be fine. He can hit the shots when he needs too, and is a killer playmaker. Ya can't ask for more from the PG spot.

You should try to acquire Dallas SG Jason Terry to be your Manu Ginobili off the bench. That's what's missing from SA. A Strong bench. Dallas likely won't ask for much, Terry has a loaded contract and they suck. Acquiring a killer scorer off the bench will lift Boston beyond any and all teams.

[canman1971]

...
although Pierce's 40% shooting percentage has made life tough for them this season.

Garnett's shooting funk (drop from 56% to 48%) not only affects his scoring, but Garnett is shooting less. Instead of being the leading power forward that's he's been for 10 years he's between LaMarcus Aldridge and Kenyon Martin right now.

This is where you lose credibility and I stop reading.

[BillessuR6]

The C's are still a very formidable and dangerous basketball team. But the bench problem kind of was always evident even last year. The magic in beantown was there though so I guess it was okay. But here's the thing. Perkins sucked. Always has, always will. Don't expect more then his averages. Rondo will be fine. He can hit the shots when he needs too, and is a killer playmaker. Ya can't ask for more from the PG spot.

Perk is great! He is better than Dalambert and is the least of our problems!

[threrf23]

I agree that doc was a dope for benching allen to start the 2nd qtr when ray was red hot.

I don't mind that Ray was on the bench to start the 2nd quarter. I don't mind that at all, last season Ray was notably better in the 1st/3rd quarters as he was better on days rest presumably because he would tire. What I disliked however is that Ray was left on the bench for awhile, long enough to cool off completely.