Way OT: Landlord won't give security deposit back.

Scalamental · Post #1 » by **Scalamental** » Fri Dec 5, 2008 1:34 am

I apologize if this is too OT, but I'm damn frustrated.

In august, I started living in a house with no lease that was month to month. I signed no lease, nothing. The only papers I signed were the checks I gave every month. On the first month's rent, the landlord requested that I included a security deposit. I obliged and now -3 months later- she won't give it back. She says it was never a deposit and she's keeping it because I did not stay for a year, and didn't pay last months rent, even though I told her a month ahead of time that I was leaving with the last months check.

So to reiterate, she's not acknowledging it as a safety deposit at all, she's just saying it's money I some how owe her because I didn't stay as long as she wanted me too. Which is ridiculous because from day one she told me it was a month to month rental and that she wanted a security deposit... Now she's just lying her face off, saying anything that could keep my security deposit. So petty.

She says she had my name on a lease but she didn't know where the document was, but I know she was lying. I never signed anything.

What can I legally say and or do to make her give me my money back?

If anyone has any input/insight on this, please share.

Post #2 » by **Celtics_Champs** » Fri Dec 5, 2008 1:39 am

There are actually a few lawyers on here, I believe. So you probably asked in the right place. If you went to the OT board, half of the comments would have probably been "Punch her in the face."

How much money is it btw?

Scalamental · Post #3 » by **Scalamental** » Fri Dec 5, 2008 1:41 am

Celtics_Champs wrote:There are actually a few lawyers on here, I believe. So you probably asked in the right place. If you went to the OT board, half of the comments would have probably been "Punch her in the face."

If life was that easy...

Scalamental · Post #4 » by **Scalamental** » Fri Dec 5, 2008 1:42 am

It's 250 which isn't enough to sue, but enough to make me want to bluff. I've heard of her taking advantage of dumb college kids in the past among much worse things, but I don't go to college, and I aint going down like that.

Post #5 » by **ParticleMan** » Fri Dec 5, 2008 1:50 am

lol welcome to real life.
a shady landlord once bilked me and my buddies out of $1400, so we sued in small claims court, won $1000 back (only, despite the fact that he had no legit argument but he brought a fancy lawyer), but he never paid, so we had to go to court again, and finally we got like $800 from him. it was barely worth all the effort.
moral: get everything in writing. period. don't trust anyone, especially not landlords.

threrf23 · Post #6 » by **threrf23** » Fri Dec 5, 2008 2:57 am

Stuff like this happens, particularly when the economy is what it currently is.

Scalamental · Post #7 » by **Scalamental** » Fri Dec 5, 2008 3:09 am

threrf23 wrote:Stuff like this happens, particularly when the economy is what it currently is.

I wish the strings of my heart weren't held together by vengeance. Seriously though, this woman is infamous for three things in Boston: suing, lying, and general crookery. I just wish I had a leg to stand on.

Who-rod · Post #8 » by **Who-rod** » Fri Dec 5, 2008 3:28 am

I think you would win in small claims court. You have three cashed checks by her, the first being $250 larger than the remaining two. It stands to reason the larger one included a security deposit. Please note I am not a bar passed lawyer in MA, I can only speak from my time as a law clerk for a judge pro tem in San Diego (where I did pass the bar), but during that time I wrote decisions for him in contested small claims cases he took under consideration.

Small claims can be a nuisance, you don't need counsel, and even if you win, they still have to pay... which may not happen easily. So I would do it if you are looking for vengeance, but maybe not for economic value.

Scalamental · Post #9 » by **Scalamental** » Fri Dec 5, 2008 3:39 am

Who-rod wrote:I think you would win in small claims court. You have three cashed checks by her, the first being $250 larger than the remaining two. It stands to reason the larger one included a security deposit. Please note I am not a bar passed lawyer in MA, I can only speak from my time as a law clerk for a judge pro tem in San Diego (where I did pass the bar), but during that time I wrote decisions for him in contested small claims cases he took under consideration.

Small claims can be a nuisance, you don't need counsel, and even if you win, they still have to pay... which may not happen easily. So I would do it if you are looking for vengeance, but maybe not for economic value.

It's so tempting, that might just be what I do.

Post #10 » by **Spin Move** » Fri Dec 5, 2008 4:02 am

Most states have strong landlord tenent laws, I can't speak for whatever state your in, but since there was not a signed lease and you had an agreed upon amount of rent if the deposit is a different size then the monthly payments you should be able to prevail in small claims court as it is the landlords obligation in many states to make sure there is a written lease and they breached that obligation by doing so, go see if you state has a landlord tenant act and take a look at the obligations of the landlord section.

I am a lawyer licensed in Arizona, not wherever you live which is most likley not there.

RoyHobbs · Post #11 » by **RoyHobbs** » Fri Dec 5, 2008 4:43 am

Mass law: If a Court agrees that it was a security deposit, and that the landlord did not return it to you (minus lawful deductions) within 30 days, you're entitled to *triple* (treble) damages plus court costs.

Most states have some provision that allows for double or triple damages in instances like this. Small claims court is the way to go.

(Also, most states require a landlord to pay you interest on a security deposit and/or last months rent.)

Question: When was notice given, when was rent due each month, and when did you move out?

Scalamental · Post #12 » by **Scalamental** » Fri Dec 5, 2008 5:21 am

RoyHobbs wrote:Mass law: If a Court agrees that it was a security deposit, and that the landlord did not return it to you (minus lawful deductions) within 30 days, you're entitled to *triple* (treble) damages plus court costs.

Most states have some provision that allows for double or triple damages in instances like this. Small claims court is the way to go.

(Also, most states require a landlord to pay you interest on a security deposit and/or last months rent.)

Question: When was notice given, when was rent due each month, and when did you move out?

It was a verbal agreement that I was to include my safety d with the first months rent. On the check it only says rent on the subject line, for $800; which is the rent 550+ a 250 safety d. My case to the court would be, because the check says $800 not $550 like the other checks, it was the one that included the safety d. It was a month to month rental, and I gave her the check for november at the end of october, a full months notice, completely out of the apartment before decemeber 1st.

dingodile · Post #13 » by **dingodile** » Fri Dec 5, 2008 6:18 pm

PM Curmudgeon (he's the only MA lawyer that posted here as far as I know) about this.

It sounds like you'd have a pretty good shot at winning. Collection might be a different animal though. I don't know MA law, but I'd suspect a judgment creditor (you) could place a lien on the property.

The problem, as you point out, is it's a dispute over a small amount of money so it might not be worth it. Also she might even change her story and agree that it was a deposit and then say the costs to clean and repair the property ate it all up, which could sound realistic. In that case, you're probably sunk. If that happens then just give her address to Coach Mang and it'll likely be the most expense $250 she's ever stolen.

But you've now learned a very valuable lesson young grasshopper, GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING!!!

Dirty Water · Post #14 » by **Dirty Water** » Fri Dec 5, 2008 6:35 pm

As a college kid, don't expect to get security derposits back. I've lived in two houses since I've been going to school here and both had made getting our deposits back impossible. These people in real estate knwo you are young and think you are stupid when it comes to legal issues and will do anything to try to take advantage of you and make money.

I recently am in a legal case where here on campus my house was robbed twice in a month. Guns were involved in the second robbery. Very serious crimes. (They eventually caught the people from the second robbery thankfully) HOWEVER, Our landlord was completely unforgiving and was being negligent and wouldn't fix our front door, damaged property etc. My roommates and I moved out because we didn't feel safe in our house. Ouir landlord is still trying to bind us in the lease even though we have offered to mutually terminate it because if his negligence. Some of these people are business men, and you are quick to realize in the real world that not everyone you meet is your friend. These are businesses. This is how people make money. They do not care about you.

That's my two cents. Good luck to you are your case.

Scalamental · Post #15 » by **Scalamental** » Fri Dec 5, 2008 6:51 pm

This is the editors response from malawforum.com

"If the facts are as you describe them (tenancy at will and you gave a proper 30 day's notice to quit), your landlord is in deep trouble. Massachusetts law requires your landlord to return the security deposit within 30 days after you move out.

Typically, if you caused damage to the apartment, your landlord may use part of the security deposit to pay for repairs. However, if the landlord did not give you a 'statement of condition' at the beginning of the tenancy, I don't see how she can use the deposit for repairs. Even if she did you give you such a statement, she must give you a detailed list of what she spent the deposit on, including an estimated repair cost within 30 days after you move out. This statement must be signed under penalties of perjury.

If, after you show this answer to your landlord, she still refuses to return the deposit, you will have to sue her to get the deposit back. I know that does not sound like a lot of fun, but housing court is very friendly to pro se plaintiffs (people representing themselves) and there are 'housing specialists' to help you out or to mediate with your landlord. Also, if you have to sue to get the deposit back, you may be entitled to three times the amount of the deposit, pursuant to Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 186, Section 15B(6)(e) and (7). Good luck."

http://www.malawforum.com/content/landl ... ty-deposit