Doc Rivers and his stubbornness...

BillessuR6 · Post #1 » by **BillessuR6** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:18 am

It is been a long time since a negative Doc thread on this board, so it is time we have one. In these last few games he has really made some questionable decisions that have reminded me of the old, bad Doc. But what worries me the most about our current situation is his stubbornness when it comes to rotations.

Our whole bench has been playing as bad as I have seen a second unit play in the NBA but no changes have been made. I understand that Doc doesn`t have much on the bench but if it doesn`t work at all something needs to change. He keeps playing Davis, who is clearly not producing. I know he doesn`t have many options but Big baby at center is costing us game after game. Yesterday Davis made 3 consecutive bad defensive plays and took a stupid jumper at the end of the third quarter when blazers made their run. I don`t think there is any other player in the NBA who is playing worse and still getting 10+ minutes per game. I know POB isn`t good but he seriously can`t be worse than Davis. If he is, then Perk needs to play more. And why shouldn`t Giddens or Walker get a few minutes at SG/SF instead of a terrible Tony Allen?

Now our bench just isn`t accountable for their play. They are playing horrible but they are still getting minutes. They don`t feel threatened because there is little competition and Doc isn`t putting any pressure on them. That is why even if we don`t have much quality putting some other player in rotation would at least make the second unit think and work harder. Play Pruitt instead of House or TA, he deserves it. Play Giddens or Walker over Tony to get a reaction out of him. Play POB over Davis to wake him up!

Until Danny does something to upgrade our bench Doc needs to send them a message. Staying put and doing nothing won`t cut it. I don`t want our starters to burn out because our second unit can`t produce. It is frustrating for us to watch and I would imagine even more so for our starters. Enough is enough, something needs to be done!

Fencer reregistered · Post #2 » by **Fencer reregistered** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:34 am

thebirdman wrote: but Big baby at center is costing us game after game.

How many losses do you think Davis has caused this season?

Personally, I put the number at 6 or 7.

BillessuR6 · Post #3 » by **BillessuR6** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:24 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:
thebirdman wrote: but Big baby at center is costing us game after game.

How many losses do you think Davis has caused this season?

Personally, I put the number at 6 or 7.

We have only lost 5 games this season, I guess you don`t really follow the team that closely.

It is not just about the loses it is about how many leads the second unit has blown and the starters had to play big minutes to save us...

Willie Beamen · Post #4 » by **Willie Beamen** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:46 pm

thebirdman I cound not have agreed with you more. You took the words right out of my mouth. I actually said the same thing in another thread. I would like Doc to play the young guys more. Why not play Gabe Pruitt more and I mean with the Starters. Why not give POB more minutes? I'm also in favor of calling up JR or Walker and let them play so of the minutes that Tony Allen has been getting. To me the bench players that our getting the minute aren't play with any passion. Last season our bench play hungry, this season they playing like they are full already. Playing those hungry young players will give our 2nd unit that added punch.

GreenGrizz · Post #5 » by **GreenGrizz** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:07 pm

The 1986 team probably had the deepest bench in the Celtics history but KC Jones wouldn't send in the whole second unit at the same time. He would rotate by position at a time.

Celts17Pride · Post #6 » by **Celts17Pride** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:33 pm

GreenGrizz wrote:The 1986 team probably had the deepest bench in the Celtics history but KC Jones wouldn't send in the whole second unit at the same time. He would rotate by position at a time.

Watch the games. Doc doesn't send in everyone at once. He sends in a couple at a time then leaves either Pierce or Ray Allen in with 4 subs. The bottom line is the bench is not producing and is putting a ton of pressure on the starters. In the playoffs you can play the starters 40-42 minutes a game, you can't do that over a 82 game season. The bench needs to produce.

If the starters have to play 38-40 minutes a game in the regular season then they will be worn out long before the playoffs start.

MasterRyu · Post #7 » by **MasterRyu** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:52 pm

Doc's stubbornness is similar to Phil Jackson's at times. Phil makes some very inexplicable rotation decisions and can be very stubborn..uh..patient.

Yeah, I agree. Doc should definitely experiment more with the bench and give everyone some meaningful minutes to show what they can do, not just during 50-point blowout games.

Post #8 » by **ParticleMan** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:24 pm

the RS is the time to let the leash out a bit. Davis CAN play better. he was a lot better last year. who knows what's going on this year. maybe the coaches have asked him to work on different things. i think Doc has been very good handling players, so that when it counts they play to the best of their abilities. the bench is not doing that now, for sure. but benching guys doesn't necessarily help.

one thing mentioned in the globe today is the lack of any practice time in the past 2 weeks. it really seems the guys are rusty, they are falling back into old habits. Doc can only do so much, he can't go out there and run the plays for them. Without practice there's been "slippage". This is where playing all those early RS games helps us. Late in the season we can not only get more rest, but more practice as well to keep ourselves sharp.

Despite all the Chicken Littling on this board, I'm not that worried about a few losses in December. If the problem isn't fixed by May, then I'll worry. But our guys haven't suddenly forgotten how to play basketball. We'll be fine.

Hemingway · Post #9 » by **Hemingway** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:33 pm

Eh, I disagree with this post for a few reasons. First the major argument is that the bench sucks which I agree with. I don't agree that POB and Pruitt are going to be better though. I also feel that at least one trade will be made and that we may be showcasing players at this point. One of Doc(and Danny's) real strong points is sticking to the plan. If they were as reactionary as this internet messageboard we would not be where we are today.

humblebum · Post #10 » by **humblebum** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:50 pm

I was encouraged to hear that Doc was planning on subbing KG out around the 4 minute mark in the first and third quarters, even though KG ended up coming out around the 2 minute mark. If Doc is able to consistently get KG and possibly another starter out around the 4 minute mark it will allow two bench players to spend more time on the court with the starters. Up until this point Doc has traditionally subbed in Davis, TA, then Powe, House all around the 1 minute mark of the first quarter. He then brings in the starters around the 7-8 minute mark in the second quarter. By taking KG out early Doc can use KG earlier in the second quarter in order to help out one of our smaller bigs... this would lessen the time that we see Powe-Davis on the floor together.

This isn't reactionary either. I agree that the regular season is a time to allow the bench to develop. But it's also important that the bench players gain confidence and consistency... this approach (and/or moving Pierce to the sixth man role) would help to accomplish that goal.