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Is anyone else here not worried?

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Re: Is anyone else here not worried? 

Post#21 » by Celts09 » Thu Jan 8, 2009 8:44 pm

Not worried more upset. All team go through slumps.
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Re: Is anyone else here not worried? 

Post#22 » by Bad-Thoma » Thu Jan 8, 2009 8:46 pm

Hey, this stretch has sucked but every season has it's hot and cold streaks. A couple good bounces in these close games, a couple W's and the swagger will come back and everyone will stop manning the bilges. The ship might have hit some rough seas but she ain't goin down. It doesn't mean we don't need a little bench help, but we've known that since the preseason. It was just easy to forget when we were setting records and all.
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Re: Is anyone else here not worried? 

Post#23 » by MyInsatiableOne » Thu Jan 8, 2009 8:55 pm

^^What he said...
It's still 17 to 11!!!!
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Re: Is anyone else here not worried? 

Post#24 » by Pogue Mahone » Thu Jan 8, 2009 10:22 pm

sully00 wrote:I am worried that it is going to get a little worse before it gets better. The Cavs and those back to back back to backs does not look like a 5 game win streak.


I agree with this.

sully00 wrote:We just aren't playing very well. Early in the year we had all 5 starters clicking, now we have Pierce and got a half out of KG, Rondo is a mess, Ray is slumping, and Perk looks like Perk again.


Perk can't do anything offensively if he doesn't see the ball. He gets the team good shots out of his passing from the box, he is still gobbling up misses (especially on the offensive glass), he is still sacrificing himself (picks on offense/clogging the middle, blitzes and switch-outs on defense) and he hasn't had a technical foul in I don't know how long.

Pierce and KG are each having their games disrupted by lack of touches as playmakers. The ball has stopped moving as much, baskets are harder to come by and we continue to have a sub-par offense, imo.

While I would certainly like Rondo to have a bit more consistency, he has been robbed of at least 20 assists on the season on easily convertible, no one in ten feet, wide open looks for Ray Allen. Ray's tendency to eschew space discipline in favor of generating his own shot negates what Rondo does well. Additionally, when Ray is dilly-dallying with the ball in his hands, that means Rondo isn't a threat-- or Perkins for that matter (Ray rarely passes to a wide open Perkins.)

A little over a month ago, I told everybody what was going to happen once Ray Allen's hot streak ended. Regardless if this cold streak is temporary or not, it is a major weakness of this team. I even asked others to convince me why my thinking was wrong. Everyone asked if I was a "Ray hater" or just dumb. They then utilized every known basketball platitude instead of addressing my concerns. The real question they should have been asking themselves is if I was correct in my assumptions and if I was, what was an appropriate way to remedy the situation.

sully00 wrote:I hate the losing but I like the addition of Pruitt to the rotation I thought he added at least a steady ball handler to the bench. I think there is a sense that there is going to be some kind of roster shake up and that has guys on egg shells a bit.


I agree about Smiling Gabe. Their games aren't all that similar statistically but I get a Lou Williams vibe from Gabe. I think that Gabe was an improvement over Delonte West last year and was befuddled that he hadn't seen much burn this season.

I also agree about the egg shells bit, as well. Unfortunately for some of the bench players, they are feeling the pressure because one of the starters is playing a me-first game. When Ray Allen dominates the ball, we are a poor team and not just on the offensive side of the ball.

If you are a role player, especially a young one, that is sacrificing minutes (due to foul trouble) and shot attempts, what is the incentive to free Ray Allen with a solid pick or attempt to plug the lane once his man has burnt him defensively? It is true that role players support stars. It is also true that stars support the role players. After all, a scorer/shot finisher is just another role.

If I am Glen Davis, Leon Powe or Kendrick Perkins, what is my incentive to help Ray Allen when Ray Allen doesn't help me? In the past, Ray Allen gets all the ink for outstanding play and those players (and Rondo) were mostly responsible. Where is their payday going to come from if they are not seeing scoring opportunities within the flow of the offense because Ray Allen is killing ball-movement? Where is the payday going to come from if they are having trouble with fouls because Ray Allen can't keep anyone between his knees defensively?

Personally, I have no problem with Ray Allen taking shots and missing. It happens. I am more concerned with what he does with the ball in his hands, off-the-ball and on defense.

sully00 wrote:I am not worried that we now suck, no. I am worried that we are losing that is all, I expected it to end two games ago and it has dragged on a little. I think that the Celts are having a hard time putting together a complete effort on both ends and likely have a couple of hurts in the starting 5, I don't think the word is out on how to stop the C's from knocking down open jumpers and make them slow on the rotations in the post.


The offense, when executed properly, is fine. The problem is the execution-- most notably poor spacing, non-existent ball-movement and over-dribbling. Good offense beats good defense every time. The Celtics most glaring problem is that the offense is very inconsistent. In fact, in 19 of our 37 games this season, our offense has been below league average. To take it one step forward, in those same 19 games, we have put up an ORtg of 100.77. In case that point is lost on someone who wants to simply label me as a doom and gloom monger, that kind of offense is OKC/LAC. Granted they don't have our defense but, if we are serious about a playoff berth, never mind a Championship, it needed to be fixed 15 games ago.

There is still ample time to right the ship but I say it's high time for Doc to make it abundantly clear to Ray Allen that he moves without the ball and if he holds it for more than 4 seconds, he is sitting on the bench. If that isn't possible, I think you trade Ray for a solid package that allows to still compete and doesn't hamstring the franchise going forward.
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Re: Is anyone else here not worried? 

Post#25 » by Pogue Mahone » Thu Jan 8, 2009 10:26 pm

Celts09 wrote:Not worried more upset. All team go through slumps.


Sure, every team goes through slumps. When would you alter your classification from "slump" to "poor play" What if a team, with the offensive firepower that the Celtics have at their disposal, was worse than league average offensively in 51.4% of their games close to 40 games into a season? Would you classify that as a slump or poor play?
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Re: Is anyone else here not worried? 

Post#26 » by ryaningf » Fri Jan 9, 2009 12:27 am

Pogue Mahone wrote:
sully00 wrote:I am worried that it is going to get a little worse before it gets better. The Cavs and those back to back back to backs does not look like a 5 game win streak.


I agree with this.

sully00 wrote:We just aren't playing very well. Early in the year we had all 5 starters clicking, now we have Pierce and got a half out of KG, Rondo is a mess, Ray is slumping, and Perk looks like Perk again.


Perk can't do anything offensively if he doesn't see the ball. He gets the team good shots out of his passing from the box, he is still gobbling up misses (especially on the offensive glass), he is still sacrificing himself (picks on offense/clogging the middle, blitzes and switch-outs on defense) and he hasn't had a technical foul in I don't know how long.

Pierce and KG are each having their games disrupted by lack of touches as playmakers. The ball has stopped moving as much, baskets are harder to come by and we continue to have a sub-par offense, imo.

While I would certainly like Rondo to have a bit more consistency, he has been robbed of at least 20 assists on the season on easily convertible, no one in ten feet, wide open looks for Ray Allen. Ray's tendency to eschew space discipline in favor of generating his own shot negates what Rondo does well. Additionally, when Ray is dilly-dallying with the ball in his hands, that means Rondo isn't a threat-- or Perkins for that matter (Ray rarely passes to a wide open Perkins.)

A little over a month ago, I told everybody what was going to happen once Ray Allen's hot streak ended. Regardless if this cold streak is temporary or not, it is a major weakness of this team. I even asked others to convince me why my thinking was wrong. Everyone asked if I was a "Ray hater" or just dumb. They then utilized every known basketball platitude instead of addressing my concerns. The real question they should have been asking themselves is if I was correct in my assumptions and if I was, what was an appropriate way to remedy the situation.

sully00 wrote:I hate the losing but I like the addition of Pruitt to the rotation I thought he added at least a steady ball handler to the bench. I think there is a sense that there is going to be some kind of roster shake up and that has guys on egg shells a bit.


I agree about Smiling Gabe. Their games aren't all that similar statistically but I get a Lou Williams vibe from Gabe. I think that Gabe was an improvement over Delonte West last year and was befuddled that he hadn't seen much burn this season.

I also agree about the egg shells bit, as well. Unfortunately for some of the bench players, they are feeling the pressure because one of the starters is playing a me-first game. When Ray Allen dominates the ball, we are a poor team and not just on the offensive side of the ball.

If you are a role player, especially a young one, that is sacrificing minutes (due to foul trouble) and shot attempts, what is the incentive to free Ray Allen with a solid pick or attempt to plug the lane once his man has burnt him defensively? It is true that role players support stars. It is also true that stars support the role players. After all, a scorer/shot finisher is just another role.

If I am Glen Davis, Leon Powe or Kendrick Perkins, what is my incentive to help Ray Allen when Ray Allen doesn't help me? In the past, Ray Allen gets all the ink for outstanding play and those players (and Rondo) were mostly responsible. Where is their payday going to come from if they are not seeing scoring opportunities within the flow of the offense because Ray Allen is killing ball-movement? Where is the payday going to come from if they are having trouble with fouls because Ray Allen can't keep anyone between his knees defensively?

Personally, I have no problem with Ray Allen taking shots and missing. It happens. I am more concerned with what he does with the ball in his hands, off-the-ball and on defense.

sully00 wrote:I am not worried that we now suck, no. I am worried that we are losing that is all, I expected it to end two games ago and it has dragged on a little. I think that the Celts are having a hard time putting together a complete effort on both ends and likely have a couple of hurts in the starting 5, I don't think the word is out on how to stop the C's from knocking down open jumpers and make them slow on the rotations in the post.


The offense, when executed properly, is fine. The problem is the execution-- most notably poor spacing, non-existent ball-movement and over-dribbling. Good offense beats good defense every time. The Celtics most glaring problem is that the offense is very inconsistent. In fact, in 19 of our 37 games this season, our offense has been below league average. To take it one step forward, in those same 19 games, we have put up an ORtg of 100.77. In case that point is lost on someone who wants to simply label me as a doom and gloom monger, that kind of offense is OKC/LAC. Granted they don't have our defense but, if we are serious about a playoff berth, never mind a Championship, it needed to be fixed 15 games ago.

There is still ample time to right the ship but I say it's high time for Doc to make it abundantly clear to Ray Allen that he moves without the ball and if he holds it for more than 4 seconds, he is sitting on the bench. If that isn't possible, I think you trade Ray for a solid package that allows to still compete and doesn't hamstring the franchise going forward.



Ouch! You came down hard on Ray and while I don't agree with everything you said, I will add that from what I'm seeing, Ray gets himself and the team in trouble when he tries to create. In the last 8 games, I've seen time and time again, Ray, looking off Rondo and running the break himself, usually to less-than-stellar results. Doesn't he realize that if he passes it to Rondo to lead the break, he's more than likely the one that will get it back for an open shot? During these last 8 games, Rajon and Ray have also looked way out of sync, either Ray is in the wrong spot or Rondo's pass is just a bit off. I've also noticed that Ray is now more willing to turn down shots that Rondo gets him, usually in favor of going off the dribble, whereas during the streak, Ray was shooting all those shots in rhythm. There might be some sort of power play at work between Ray and Rondo, stemming from the Laker game--they don't seem to trust each other as much.
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Re: Is anyone else here not worried? 

Post#27 » by billfromBoston » Fri Jan 9, 2009 4:30 am

sully00 wrote:I am worried that it is going to get a little worse before it gets better. The Cavs and those back to back back to backs does not look like a 5 game win streak.

We just aren't playing very well. Early in the year we had all 5 starters clicking, now we have Pierce and got a half out of KG, Rondo is a mess, Ray is slumping, and Perk looks like Perk again.

I hate the losing but I like the addition of Pruitt to the rotation I thought he added at least a steady ball handler to the bench. I think there is a sense that there is going to be some kind of roster shake up and that has guys on egg shells a bit.

I am not worried that we now suck, no. I am worried that we are losing that is all, I expected it to end two games ago and it has dragged on a little. I think that the Celts are having a hard time putting together a complete effort on both ends and likely have a couple of hurts in the starting 5, I don't think the word is out on how to stop the C's from knocking down open jumpers and make them slow on the rotations in the post.


I think Sully nailed it when he mentioned the expectation or a shake-up/addition to the roster...believe it or not, these guys are human and the more talk their is of change the harder it is to focus solely on the task at hand...

You also have to factor in the very natural idea that the team is pacing itself for the 2nd half of the season. Coupled with the lack of mixing the 1st and 2nd unit for most of the year, the team is a bit jumbled and out of sinc.

Boston has given its best defensive efforts against the 3 "real" teams its lost to - LAL/POR/HOU - this shows me that they are capable of playing high level bball when they want - now, the offense has been a problem in the 4th quarter of each of these games and there has been defensive slippage in terms of consistency, but Boston had a shot to win each of these games down the stretch, so the idea that things are super bad is super inaccurate.

Boston hit an offensive slump last season around this time of year - actually a bit later - and they figured it out and went on to win the title.

Danny has some cards to play yet and I think this team will find help to bolster its weakest areas - backup PG and C...once these are addressed the team should get a shot in the arm which will only help to augment the natural adjustments they are sure to make offensively...
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Re: Is anyone else here not worried? 

Post#28 » by IEcelticfan » Fri Jan 9, 2009 5:39 am

i say better to hit the bumps now rather than later, which i know we won't.

wow....crabeliers only 4 1/2 pt faves???
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Re: Is anyone else here not worried? 

Post#29 » by Maple Green » Fri Jan 9, 2009 6:39 am

I am worried BUT I trust the Celtics team.
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Re: Is anyone else here not worried? 

Post#30 » by MyInsatiableOne » Fri Jan 9, 2009 1:46 pm

IEcelticfan wrote:i say better to hit the bumps now rather than later, which i know we won't.

wow....crabeliers only 4 1/2 pt faves???


Agreed...and...

BEWARE the CRAB DRIBBLE!!!


:lol: :lol: :lol:
It's still 17 to 11!!!!
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Re: Is anyone else here not worried? 

Post#31 » by Man_Up » Fri Jan 9, 2009 7:13 pm

I'm not worried about this teams regular season prospects. There is no doubt in my mind that we will come out of this slump. However, I am worried about this team for the play-offs. You can pretend that there is nothing wrong with the team all you want, but it's clear we need some changes for the stretch run. Our bench sucks! We don't have a reliable back up for anyone. We don't have a single guy we can bring from off the bench to pick us up when the starters are down.
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