Who should go Baby or Powe?

[Zin5]

I'd say Powe should go. I'm neutral on which to keep, mostly because I think Baby could excel in Powe's role as backup PF and maybe bring more to the table (better passing, potential for some post moves, maybe a 15 foot jumpshot), but when it comes to who to give up, Powe's showed more and most definitely has more value around the league than Baby at this point. Powe's regressed a bit and I think if Baby gets his head on straight and the proper role on the team (what happened to Doc clamoring after the draft that he was exclusively a PF?), that he could provide us with more off the bench.

[Tenbomber]

I'm not anxious to see either of these young players traded... but if one of them has to be included in a trade that betters the team, I hope its Glen Davis...

I guess I figure he's a "tweener".... much like Gomes was when he was here...and much like Gomes, I believe Baby will have a fine NBA career once he's traded away...

But we need a taller and more experienced power forward/center shot blocker who plays good "D" right now to match up with some of the better teams in certain situations...

I was hoping Doc would give POB a chance to play with the first unit in Perk's absence... but that hasn't happpened yet....

So it does look like we are going to make a deal...

Powe fits our needs better...we need him to rebound and would miss his "D" and his offensive abilities underneath...he's the better of the two players... JMO

I still think POB could fill that role (if he's ready to step up).. but Doc dosen't seem to have confidence in him just yet...

[Bad-Thoma]

We can sit here and debate this all day, but it would be the interest of a team we are trading with to which one they want in a potential trade. The one thing we can agree about is the fact that they kind of bring the same intangibles to this team.

I was going to reply with something similar, it's more a matter of who could improve the team most in a trade as niether has really separated himself from the other this season. If I had to choose I'd keep Powe just because I like his skill set more, he is a better rebounder and it's hard to find players with a good back to the basket game. I think either one will benefit if the other is replaced with a real center. I think the BBD not being in shape arguement is a crock, he's pretty fast and pretty jacked, he just doesn't have a traditional basketball build. It's like when people call Scal fat, he's actually a gym rat, not everyone has the same definition even if they're the same size.

[Avalanche]

i never agreed with all the calls for baby to lose a ton of weight, its an asset to him... he doesnt have the height but he can still hold position with anyone when hes defending or going for boards, guy that big has to be tough to keep out which is why we see him getting offensive rebounds with some regularity

but yeah, whichever one we can trade and get the best return, cant hang on to one becaus they are slightly better than the other at this point

[billfromBoston]

IMO Leon Powe is on a course to be a starter in this league - once he hits about the 3000 minute mark for PT he'll have expanded his offensive game to the point where he can be a reliable 6th man for this team - as long as he has a competent Center playing along side him and a decent PG to open up the game.

Powe has a much more expansive post repetoire than what we're seeing now - rolling hook, fall away in the lane, up-and-under, turn-around jumper, and counter-spin layup. He was utilizing a more full repetoire early in the year, but as his touches decreased I believe his rhythm was disrupted to the point where he is now over-relying on his primary go-to move, the powe-middle, rip-through...

Contrary to hearsay on this board, Powe does have an average mid-range shot out to 15 feet - the reason he doesn't utilize it is because his post game is more advanced and the team has him focussing on attacking the basket as a complement to Davis' outside shot - if he was playing on a team that needed more from him he'd be doing more and learning more quickly subsequently.

However, Powe is only 25, some 8 years younger than KG. If Boston can get him signed for under 3.5 million annually they're going to be able to groom him into a larger role over the next 3 seasons - right when he enters his prime.

While I don't imagine him being a primary or secondary offensive player, as a starting PF, he should easily be able to give a team 30-35 quality minutes and pump him 15-18 points on efficient shooting. Imagining this team as a wing/guard oriented team in the future, I'd be good with a high-low tandem of Perk/Powe while Rondo/Walker and "shooting guard X" hold the line until another star can be found.

A Star shooting guard, the continued development of Rondo and the (hopefully) emergence of Bill Walker into a solid starter/3rd option would make this team's future comparable to last year's 76ers - not a bad place to be while waiting for the "championship addition" to make it all come together.

In Powe, I see a player that many are rushing to assume full development, when in fact his role on the team and his current experience level are allowing him to show only part of what he is capable of.

Now, I agree that Davis isn't at his full ability level, but i'd bet good money that he'll never see his full potential because he just isn't a physical specimen and isn't nearly complete enough of a player at his current weight/athleticism to be a starting PF - with Powe, I know he'll reach his max potential and i've scouted him enough to see that he already has the full arsenal he needs to be a major offensive threat on the block.

Powe continues to work on his jumper every day and he'll be at least a PJ Brown/Udonis Haslem level shooter, which will vastly increase his drive opportunities. Once he is consistently getting 12+ possessions a game to get comfortable and make plays, he'll mix up his post moves with more frequency and to better affect.

Personally, I believe the team is not emphasizing Powe's full role right now specifically to supress his market value. Coupled with his lack of playing time with the starters, it is serving to keep his statistics in a range where he should be imminently more affordable this off-season, at which point I believe they'll resign him and make he and Walker the focal points of the bench offense...along with whatever long(ger) term vet C/F they bring in, (likely Sheed imo.)

Davis has much further to go before he puts the skills together to be as productive as Powe is now, and since the team has only this season to develop them, I believe that Davis is currently being given the opportunity to showcase his talents to both the team and the rest of the league - that is why you see Davis get minutes in garbage time so frequently as well - a nice stat-boosting opportunity.

The team knows what they have in Powe, and if some posters are skeptical, keep in mind how adamantly most declared Perkins to be a backup center at best with "no offense" to speak of. Players that work extremely hard and have base athletic gifts to work with typically continue to develop for years and years - Perk and Powe are far from their "ceiling" as players and i'd happily invest 7-8 million between the two of them to ensure at least a gritty, hard-nosed front court tandem as the team transitions away from the GPA era...

Let Davis lose weight, develop his jumper, and learn to play smarter bball somewhere else...I'll take the "black hole" who is guilty of nothing other than being a super-efficient, cautious, FT generating machine....whose man defense btw, is extremely underrated...(enough regurgitating what Doc said a year and a half ago - they kid plays good D.)

[UnOrthoDox23]

cfan get over it, I use to have a diff name but I forgot my password so I made a new one and I really don't care what you think but you're logic makes no sense as to how I'm a bandwagon fan, I've been with this team my whole life so f*** off. It's over.

sure you did

[greenbeans]

billfromBoston = /thread

[Mahoney_jr]

What BFB says sounds reasonable but I have problems to believe that you can keep a 3rd year player's value down on purpose. Powe is a regular rotational player and even though Doc is a very complying coach in regards to GM decisions and sustainability, I think that's not very likely. We need a playmaker desparately on our 2nd unit and BFB would like to make me believe that Powe could be one. I can't believe Doc would spare those traits just to get Powe under contract below the MLE.

I don't see starting quality in Powe (for a ~45 win team). He's a very nice bench PF but will be too expensive next year. .

[sully00]

I don't think the team has to move either one of them they do different things and play different positions, I would trade either one of them if it improved the team. But isn't like you could deal one of them and play the other guy 30 mins a night.

While I don't think that the team is trying to keep Leon's value down they are giving those mins with the first unit that would elevate his profile to Scal in an effort to make him a viable commodity to someone.

[billfromBoston]

...I gotta tell you guys, i've personally discussed the idea of "market supression" with a number of industry personnel because it seemed far-fetched, conspiracy theory type of stuff to me too...its not...

Often times a team will mitigate a player's full impact when they don't rely on utilizing that player's full repetoire at the current moment - this fits Powe's current game and role to a T...

Leon isn't ready to use his jumper and get concentrated touches on the 2nd unit because he is being asked to learn how to effectively operate with double coverage, (something he's seen frequently this year.) He is being asked to read the court and become more aware of his off-ball options, which he's done to great affect as well.

Powe's got plenty on his plate right now and very few complementary pieces on the 2nd unit to make his job easier. Alot of the delays in his receiving the ball and making a decision with it stem from his conscious effort to NOT be a "black hole" and make sure he reads the court correctly before making his move. You see this frequently with young post players - including Al Jefferson, Elton Brand, Amare, Bosh, etc...once the game slowed down for them you saw a lot quicker decision making, but early on they were stopping and holding the ball for 5-8 seconds trying to figure out what to do or else they were crashing into help defenses on their primary moves....

The team doesn't need Leon to be all that he can be right now, he's got homework and he's working on it dilligently. It makes more sense to have him focus on those areas since there are more pressing matters for the team to deal with - Backup C and PG being the main two, (another 3 point shooter has surfaced as a 3rd.)

if the team can address these other needs than Powe's production is going to spike much like it did last year where he was a beast on P&R, basket cuts, and O-board put-backs....the team is starting to mix the 1st and 2nd units again because of all the holes in the bench groups skill-set...but ideally, they'd like to rest that 1st unit and not go to a "playoff" style rotation this early on....both Leon and Davis have been more productive since the units mix, but its increasing the minutes of the starters and that goes against everything Doc and Danny wanted to do coming into this year.

Regardless, Powe's overall productivity has remained excellent relative to the statistical norms expected from his position - he is performing below his own standard set last year, but his usage has swung dramatically in favor of pure post play as opposed to the other off-ball stuff mentioned above -dramatically so actually...

I believe that if and when the team resigns Powe they will begin to open up his arsenal and focus more on his complete game - its just not prudent for this season based off what they need from him now and where his total skill set is at this time - he's got a lot of work to do, but the base is in there...in 2 years time I believe we will all be laughing our way to the bank on this one as he'll be grossly underpaid relative to his productivity...he's a MLE waiting to happen...

[ParticleMan]

Totally agree with BfB. He is an MLE player in 2-3 years. If we can lock him up for Perk money I'd be happy.

Baby, otoh, may turn out to be great, but right now it's tough to see past the inconsistency, weight issues, and lack of a clear role.

[wetsthebed]

I pick whichever one this is.