Tony, Scal & Giddens for Joe Smith & Grant Hill

[Jammer]

I've been thinking.

Pruitt is starting to look more like a point guard,
and maybe (MAYBE) his shots will start to fall,
increasing his value immeasurably.

Now, if Phoenix decides to blow up their team before this summer
(when 36 year old Grant Hill will likely leave as a free agent,
and Nash & Shaq will be in the final year of their contracts,
(Nash is only 50% guaranteed)

if Phoenix is gonna blow up before the trade deadline,
the following 3-way works.

Phoenix, which gave up their 2009 2nd round pick and 2010 first round pick,
essentially gets 23 year old J. R. Giddens for Grant Hill,
and the 2009 draft is supposed to be especially weak.

Trade Id 4930159

Phoenix sends Grant Hill to Boston

Oklahoma City sends Joe Smith to Boston

Boston sends J. R. Giddens to Phoenix
Boston sends Tony Allen & Brian Scalabrine to Oklahoma City

Tony Allen could be great at SG and some PG in OKC,
plus they nearly signed Tony over the summer.
Tony would fit right in.

Scal's contract is not too onerous with the defections OKC will have,
plus they are getting Tony at the bargain basement rate of $2.5 million/year,
when they will likely play him 30 pmg.

Thoughts??

P.S. Grant Hill and Ray Allen have the same agent.

[greenbeans]

So what does Gabes shot have to do with this?

And while I love the idea of getting these two guys, I don't think that's enough to get one, let alone both. I could definitely see Phoenix having some interest in Gabe or Sam, but not enough to ship out Grant.

[CelticFaninLBC]

The team in the west that could blow things up is Dallas, not Phoenix. They just added JRich and are playing well. Boston could probably get Devean George for pretty cheap.

[avi623]

This has no chance of happening. Why would any of these teams do this? What has Giddens done to draw interest from Phoenix, especially for a consistent contributor like Hill? They are a playoff contender too. How does this help them?

And OKC has drawn a lot of interest for Joe Smith's expiring deal. Why would they settle for this? Scal won't play for them, so they are essentially paying one more year of dead weight. And where do we get the "TA could be a great SG" inference from? He is 27 years old. This looks pretty close to his ceiling, and it is nothing special.

I think we should probably confront the fact that it is extremely difficult to improve this team via trade. We do not have any tradeable contracts because everyone is either making the max, the minimum, or go by the name of Scalabrine, who does not come of the books until NEXT year.

There is one young player who would draw a legitimate player in return: Rajon Rondo. And he is not going anywhere. People throw in Gabe and Giddens into these trade ideas as if they are hot commodities. Do you guys want Malik Hairston? Or how about D.J. Strawberry or Kyle Weaver or Sean Singletary or Javaris Crittendon? Dominic McGuire? You don't? Really? The way we feel about those late 1st round/2nd round scrubs is the way the rest of the league feels about guys like Giddens and Pruitt. Those guys will not bring back anyone who could help us in the playoffs or who could turn this team around. The best bet is to hope that Smith gets bought out and maybe someone else like Jerry Stackhouse.

By the way, i am not trying to say that I think Giddens and Pruitt are scrubs. I like Pruitt a lot, though I am skeptical about Giddens. And I have always been a Bill Walker fan. However, there is just no interest in those players (except maybe Walker). Any move involving them would be a lateral move for a similar player.

[avi623]

The team in the west that could blow things up is Dallas, not Phoenix. They just added JRich and are playing well. Boston could probably get Devean George for pretty cheap.

Deavan George has been a train wreck the last several seasons. Maybe we could get Gerald back from them ...

[Jammer]

Avi:

Thanks for your insightful and intelligent reply.

Now, a few things about Phoenix.

Phoenix doesn't have a wealth of young talent (due to trading/selling picks for years),
other than Amare Stoudamire, Robin Lopez and Jason not so young Richardson.

Now, Phoenix has also traded away their 2009 2nd Round Pick and 2010 First Round Pick.
And this year's draft is supposed to be extremely weak, especially if you'll be
picking in the mid-twenties like Phoenix likely will.

Now, 36 year old Grant Hill might just wanna go to Boston this summer.
Rather than get nothing, Phoenix might accept Giddens,
which gives Boston a way to re-sign Hill without using the MLE or LLE
(if Hill will again accept an LLE comparable salary + 20%, which he did in Phoenix).

So, Phoenix gets Giddens out of it.
Now, Nash and Shaq will expire after the 2010 season.
Rather than let them walk for nothing, Phoenix would likely trade them before next
year's trade deadline.

But, they may not return anything then, because they will be free agents in
the summer of 2010.

So, to get something, you trade Nash in February. That is why that rumor is
so strong. Trade him while he still has legs, AND WILL RETURN AN ASSET.

So, although Phoenix is looking good, there's is a team that likely would be
blown up before next year's trade deadline.

They may not want to blow it up this year,
but if they wait a year,
they'll get nothing for Grant Hill,
and quite possibly a lot less than they'd like for Nash, or even Shaq.
That is why there are whispers about the blowup coming this year.
There solid record makes it hard to stomach,
but a blowup by next year's trade deadline will happen no matter what.
Doing now gets a better return.

You forget, they don't have a 2010 First Round Pick or 2009 Second Round Pick.
So, nabbing someone like Giddens or Pruitt for Grant Hill nets them a guard.

And Nash might bring in a decent return this year, despite his age,
while next year, as a free agent next summer, he'll likely bring in almost nothing.
Trading him now, you negotiate an extension with the signing team.

[s1ickd]

Grant Hill is a productive starter for Pheonix that plays over 30 minutes a game. Not gonna happen.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Shaq will choke out Steve Kerr, if he deals Grant Hill... Hill would be a great pickup over the summer via free agency.

[31to6]

avi, that was in all seriousness one of the best posts I've ever read on this board. It should be stickied in perpetuity. In fact, it should be split up into thread titles, stickied in place for the next four weeks, so we can stop having so many threads about all the great booty our bench detritus will net us. Or, at least, so that those threads, when posted, are relegated to page 2.

Jammer, you obviously have an active mind on your shoulders and love this stuff very much. Therefore I'm perplexed how you could read avi's reply and persist in insisting that the minimum criteria for Phoenix - even if they DID want to trade Grant Hill for the complex reasoning you propose - would be to get 'a guard.' Why not a guard held in some regard? Conley? Sessions? Someone who's actually done something in the NBA or at least was expected to?

I mean this honestly and in good faith - your thinking, once aligned a bit more with reality (even conventional, run-of-the-mill reality), would I think be far more satisfying an experience.

[Jammer]

Grant Hill is a productive starter for Pheonix that plays over 30 minutes a game. Not gonna happen.

slick, my premise is:

If Grant Hill is going to sign with Boston this summer

If that premise is true (Hill wants to win a championship),
Phoenix has two options with Hill.

1. Let him sign with the Celtics this summer, get nothing in return,
.......... try to go as far as possible this year in the Playoffs.

2. Trade Hill to the Celtics now for Giddens or Pruitt.

GIven their lack of future picks already mentioned in my earlier post,
and their lack of youth, this is entirely feasible.
If you read about it after it happens you'll say makes sense ...

Now, the other decision for Phoenix is Nash, who will be 35 in February.
Next year, he will have almost no trade value as an expiring.

If Phoenix wants to get something for Nash, they trade him now,
when he can sign an extension.

[31to6]

http://rimshots.freedomblogging.com/200 ... etire/440/

“Let me put it this way: If I get trade, I quit. I retire. I’m done. Hopefully, that’s the end to that.”

[nasbahceltic]

http://rimshots.freedomblogging.com/2008/12/17/grant-hill-wont-be-traded-or-hell-retire/440/

“Let me put it this way: If I get trade, I quit. I retire. I’m done. Hopefully, that’s the end to that.”

Some pretty bad grammar right there Grant. Don't think I want you on my team anymore

[sully00]

Jammer

Not to shake up fairy land but Grant Hill re upped in PHX for pennies this past off season and PHX isn't blowing up anything. Shaq has two years left on his deal till then there will be no rebuilding.

Beyond that Grant Hill left DET for ORL and chose PHX over Boston twice because in DET and BOS it is friggin cold, like right now when it is -4 on my computer.

Kerr may deal away Nash because he is a flaw for a team putting more of an emphasis on half court play and making stops. Now trading him for Jose Calderon is like throwing water on grease fire but I can see why Fantasy Steve is looking to make a move with him. I also don't think Nash really likes what is going on in PHX anyhow and wants to go to TOR or NYK.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Phoenix is probably done dealing until the offseason. Then I think Nash is gone. Also, Phoenix probably thinks they have a great chance of keeping Grant Hill.. Doubtful they assume he's leaving.

[chakdaddy]

It's a very strong sign that a trade proposal is ridiculous when someone uses the justification that it's "better than losing him for nothing."

When, in fact, a mediocre player who may have a longer contract is likely less desirable than the cap and roster flexibility of "getting nothing in return."

[shrink]

I think the other posters are correct:

PHO still wants to get one more run in the play-offs while they have Shaq and Nash, so I can't see them trading away Hill for prospects.

OKC is a player in the 2009 free agent market. They won't trade an expiring Joe Smith for guys on two-year deals.

[sully00]

It's a very strong sign that a trade proposal is ridiculous when someone uses the justification that it's "better than losing him for nothing."

When, in fact, a mediocre player who may have a longer contract is likely less desirable than the cap and roster flexibility of "getting nothing in return."

There haven't been many sig worthy quotes on this board lately but that certainly is.

[SUNSARETHEBEST]

I think Grant Hill said he will be retiring after this season, not sure but If he decides to play I think management would just let him play out the season and go to another team (like the Celtics) instead of trading him.

[ParticleMan]

There is NO WAY the Suns are trading Hill. Kerr has just gone all-in to get Shaq, and the Shaq-Nash window is extremely short. JRich isn't a spring chicken either. Hill is a productive player for them, they can't afford to think about rebuilding now. They've got to play their best hand with Shaq and Nash for the next 2 years and see what happens. Even if Hill says he's retiring, they still keep him to help them win a title this year. And it doesn't matter what the RS record is, they know that if Shaq and Nash get it going in the 'offs, they can beat anybody. So it's not like Kerr will give up on this experiment midseason.