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Tony Allen

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Tony Allen

an ideal sixth man and shutdown defender
7
37%
a maddeningly frustrating player perennially overrated by management and coaches
12
63%
 
Total votes: 19

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MVE85
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Re: Tony Allen 

Post#21 » by MVE85 » Thu Feb 5, 2009 10:04 pm

GuyClinch wrote:TA is greatly underrated - and C's blog is full of TA haters who IMHO hate him more for his off-court incident then his actual play.

Pete


The reason I dont like him for this team has absolutely nothing to do with his off court life. He has no ball handling ability, hes out of control, hes lost his athleticism, his outside shot, and his confidence in general. I do like his defense, but as other posters brought up earlier in the thread his offense only works in certain scenarios. I know Gabe needs work but I wish TA wasnt getting all his minutes.

The game tonight however, I agree we need TA to cover Kobe.
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Re: Tony Allen 

Post#22 » by ryaningf » Fri Feb 6, 2009 12:20 am

Rocky5000 wrote:
ryaningf wrote:Why can't you play Rondo and TA together? They have great chemistry together (combing on two end-of-the quarter buckets against the 76ers) and can be a terror defensively. If you play up tempo basketball and pressure defense in the backcourt, these two are a potentially dangerous combination. As long as you have at least two other shooters on the floor, you're fine (such as KG and Paul Pierce).

Humblebum has a great read on the TA situation, but I'd also like to add that putting TA with a quality PG would do a lot to help him reach consistency. Sure, TA can dribble penetrate and create on occasion, but by playing him with House, he's asked to do it way more than he should be. House went on an absolute terror when he was moved off-the-ball and Pruitt was able to play point. I imagine a similar thing would happen to TA if House went down for 10 games too.

To me, it's all a question of chemistry and who plays well with whom on that 2nd unit. TA and House don't seem to have any chemistry. On the other hand, Ray/House/Pruitt work really well together, as do Rondo/TA/Paul. If I were Doc, I'd tweak rotations so those combinations were on the court, avoiding, if at all possible, any TA/House backcourt pairings, which to my mind just hide what those two can do best, while exposing what those two do worst. From comments in the paper today, Doc seems to think a TA/House backcourt CAN work, and he specifically called on TA to bring the ball up the court and do more of the playmaking....in my mind, that's just asking TA to fail...we'll see, I guess.

Awesome points. I have seen TA and House play well together before though. The difference was that it was Tony doing the ball handling and House playing shooting guard. I actually believe that Tony makes a better point guard than Eddie, because he has the ability to cause the defense to collapse on him, which gives Eddie, Leon, and Big Baby open looks. When Eddie's in the game most of the trips he hands the ball off to another player in an Isolation situation, and then starts to play like a shooting guard. The problem with that is that it takes a lot of time off from the clock and if the first option doesn't work, House comes back to the ball, retrieves it and tries to set someone up again, taking even more time off. The frustrating part is that although Tony is a better playmaker than House, but he looses control of his dribble way too often. If he can control the ball, he would be a better fit at point guard.


TA is the better point guard, it's just that he's playing out of position. What he needs is a stable role which plays to his strength...he's a pure 2 and I'd like to see him play there for awhile, get his confidence, and THEN, maybe, you flirt with putting him at point for stretches.

Another thing to remember is that for the month of November, TA was averaging about 10 points a game, handling the ball well, and basically being the defacto point guard. Then the ankle sprain and the next two months were lost in terms of effectiveness.... Now that's he's had some time to heal, it seems he's back to that November form. TA, unfortunately, needs to be almost completely healthy to play to his ability. I just hope he can stay healthy the rest of the year. If so, the TA debate goes back on the back burner where it belongs.

Rocky5000 wrote:Not surprisingly Leon plays much better with Tony than he does with either Eddie or Pruitt, which I think may have been why Leon was having such a rough stretch with Tony out.


Yeah, that's an underrated point. When TA was playing well back in November before the ankle sprain, Powe was the other bench player who was playing well (House and Baby were playing below their ability in that month--House was shooting 20% from 3 I think). TA goes down in December, loses his effectiveness for a month, gets another sprain in January, sits out 11 games, and meanwhile Powe starts to really suck. They do compliment each other well, especially on pick and rolls.
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Re: Tony Allen 

Post#23 » by ryaningf » Fri Feb 6, 2009 12:33 am

GuyClinch wrote:TA is greatly underrated - and C's blog is full of TA haters who IMHO hate him more for his off-court incident then his actual play.


You're so right about that. It starts with the guys that run that site, and filters down to the most prolific posters, who seem to post at least once a week (even when he was injured) about how bad TA is playing. Some criticism of his game is warranted, but it goes to a whole other level on that site. It's outright hate. I'd say 80% of my posts on that site are attempts to give TA a fair shake. But more than often I just get shouted down. I'm not sure where the hate stems from, but the off-the-court incident is as good a reason as any. To me, it's just plain irrational how TA gets discussed on that site.
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Re: Tony Allen 

Post#24 » by JR Hawks » Fri Feb 6, 2009 4:50 am

ryaningf wrote:
GuyClinch wrote:TA is greatly underrated - and C's blog is full of TA haters who IMHO hate him more for his off-court incident then his actual play.


You're so right about that. It starts with the guys that run that site, and filters down to the most prolific posters, who seem to post at least once a week (even when he was injured) about how bad TA is playing. Some criticism of his game is warranted, but it goes to a whole other level on that site. It's outright hate. I'd say 80% of my posts on that site are attempts to give TA a fair shake. But more than often I just get shouted down. I'm not sure where the hate stems from, but the off-the-court incident is as good a reason as any. To me, it's just plain irrational how TA gets discussed on that site.


Oh, please. What games are you watching? TA has one of the lowest basketball IQ's in the entire league. The team is better off without him. I'd be excited if traded him for a bag of balls or just released him outright.
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Re: Tony Allen 

Post#25 » by chakdaddy » Fri Feb 6, 2009 4:55 am

MVE85 wrote:
GuyClinch wrote:TA is greatly underrated - and C's blog is full of TA haters who IMHO hate him more for his off-court incident then his actual play.

Pete


He has no ball handling ability, hes out of control, hes lost his athleticism, his outside shot, and his confidence in general.


*Lost* his outside shot? Is that like how Big Baby lost his 40 inch vertical?
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Re: Tony Allen 

Post#26 » by Jammer » Fri Feb 6, 2009 5:05 am

First, I think the original poster's poll question of perfect sixth man a bit unrealistic.

What I wonder, is, is Tony Allen one of those players

who destroys the bottom third of the league (bottom ten teams),

plays OK to good against the middle third,

but the top 8 to even 10 teams don't really see him as someone
they can count on in the playoffs???

And I laud Tony for his great play against two thirds of the league, but .... ?
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Re: Tony Allen 

Post#27 » by sully00 » Fri Feb 6, 2009 2:28 pm

I like TA as a player, I think he is an NBA player and could still be a good one. But he clearly is not a pg and doesn't show a lot of confidence in his outside shot. He has also shown that he is a pretty streaky guy and that is more exposed in a bench role.

There in lies Tony's biggest problem, I think Tony would a very good starter at the SG spot as a compliment to a LeBron or Kobe wing player with size even here with Pierce. While most players performance improve in a starting role, the bigger the role in the offense, the more touches he gets, the better Tony is and the more even his play is. He easily could avg 12-15 ppg and with 4 boards and 3 assists and shoot a high percentage from the field. But in the end their are only 30 starting SGs in the NBA I don't know that Tony is good enough to crack that group.

The other element that has been really unfair in evaluating Tony is that he has played so few mins with a real pg in the line up. He has frequently been paired with a players like Delonte and Eddie and while good ball players they are worse ball handlers than he is. As much as Telfair sucked Tony was a lot better with him on the floor.

I think in some ways Tony is a lot like Leon that they would be better players if they were on a team that didn't have a HOF playing their position and the philosophy was to help them do what they do best as opposed for them to try in and impose themselves on the game. Example A about what I am talking about is Ray Allen, while Ray may be healthier this season, the offense now features getting Ray the ball were he wants it as opposed to him spacing the floor for other players, the result is Ray shooting 50% from the field instead of 40%.
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Re: Tony Allen 

Post#28 » by Youth4Glory » Fri Feb 6, 2009 5:15 pm

TA is still about as reliable as a rookie. I dont trust him in the playoffs or big games. Lets atleast see what Walker can provide in a heated situation. He's younger, better ups, better shooters, arguably quicker, and Tony hasn't been playing great D lately. Let walker get familiar with some run last third of the season and see where he stands come playoff time. I realize Doc sees this everyday in practice, but game time is different. Some people show up and some don't, I'm thinkin our boy Billy is a gamer. Put him on the floor and lets shake it up. If anything we find out we have a player more reliable than Tony, if not fine wait longer.
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Re: Tony Allen 

Post#29 » by kakopedi1 » Sat Feb 7, 2009 2:24 am

TAllen is horrible he's given us nothing this year and its time to trade him before the deadline.

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