Rajon Rondo was Brilliant Against Denver Tonight

[GuyClinch]

Rondo is out to steal the coveted best bricklayer ever award from Kidd.

[MyInsatiableOne]

Rondo is out to steal the coveted best bricklayer ever award from Kidd.

You mean Ason Kidd (since he has no J)?

[GreenDreamer]

Rondo is out to steal the coveted best bricklayer ever award from Kidd.

You mean Ason Kidd (since he has no J)?

I expected you two to support each other.

[Gant]

If Rondo is a bricklayer, give me more!

Rondo is shooting 51.6 from the field. Among ALL guards (not just points) Chris Paul is next at 50.5, then Jameer Nelson at 50.3.

The next guards in fg% in the entire league are Barbosa and Ray Allen at 49.2 and 49.1. After that it's Wade and Parker at 48.4 and 48.2.


In other words aside from 4 guys Rondo shoots more than 3% better than every other guard in the NBA. So if you want a "good shooter" you're going to have to settle for a much lower percentage.

[MyInsatiableOne]

Rondo is out to steal the coveted best bricklayer ever award from Kidd.

You mean Ason Kidd (since he has no J)?

I expected you two to support each other.

And I expected you to be a ****...looks like we all win!

[MyInsatiableOne]

If Rondo is a bricklayer, give me more!

Rondo is shooting 51.6 from the field. Among ALL guards (not just points) Chris Paul is next at 50.5, then Jameer Nelson at 50.3.

The next guards in fg% in the entire league are Barbosa and Ray Allen at 49.2 and 49.1. After that it's Wade and Parker at 48.4 and 48.2.


In other words aside from 4 guys Rondo shoots more than 3% better than every other guard in the NBA. So if you want a "good shooter" you're going to have to settle for a much lower percentage.

Jesus **** Christ, this is trotted out ALL THE TIME...and is misleading. Rondo is shooting that high a % because most of his shots are LAYUPS! If you look at the breakdown for just his jumpers he's down around 30%!

[Gant]

If Rondo is a bricklayer, give me more!

Rondo is shooting 51.6 from the field. Among ALL guards (not just points) Chris Paul is next at 50.5, then Jameer Nelson at 50.3.

The next guards in fg% in the entire league are Barbosa and Ray Allen at 49.2 and 49.1. After that it's Wade and Parker at 48.4 and 48.2.


In other words aside from 4 guys Rondo shoots more than 3% better than every other guard in the NBA. So if you want a "good shooter" you're going to have to settle for a much lower percentage.

Jesus **** Christ, this is trotted out ALL THE TIME...and is misleading. Rondo is shooting that high a % because most of his shots are LAYUPS! If you look at the breakdown for just his jumpers he's down around 30%!

It's the only thing that DOES matter.

[MyInsatiableOne]

^^But it is VERY misleading..."oh Rondo shoots 50% so it's all good"...no it's not. If we play a team who clogs the middle, then it gets very bad for us...

[Datruth345]

i have seen an improvement in rondo's jumpshot
since it was reported that he was incorporating a jump shooting routine after practice at the behest of Kevin Garnett

[GuyClinch]

^^But it is VERY misleading..."oh Rondo shoots 50% so it's all good"...no it's not. If we play a team who clogs the middle, then it gets very bad for us...

Right on..

It's the only thing that DOES matter.

Hell no. FG% tops BA for worst statistic in sports.

FG% is almost meaningless. Perkins led the NBA in field goal percentage not long ago right? Don't get me wrong Perkins can shoot some but we all know Pierce and Ray Allen are MUCH better shooters. It's night and day difference really..

Not only does field goal percentage not tell you what kind of shots are taken (layups, jumpers, runners etc). It tells you nothing about the conditions those shots are taken in. Rondo misses WIDE OPEN JUMPERS. He misses jumpers when there is no one within 10feet of him. Which isn't surprising since he misses the normal unguarded shot - a free throw.

Good shooters OTOH are covered and thus shoot far more difficult shots. It's much harder to change the trajectory of your J and shoot over someone then to shoot a wide open shot. That's why you can shoot like 40% and still be a great shooter. Or you can shoot 60% like Perkins and be just "okay for a center."

I remember when Giddens worked out against PP he was saying "Wow I didn't know Pierce could shoot like that." But thats what good NBA players do they shoot very well from all over the court. And consquently the average decent shooter have guys stuck all over him. I have heard it said that the average NBA shooter would hit around 70% of his UNCONTESTED Js. With Rondo that number is down around 30%. And I'd say that number is much higher for a guard. See for example that video of the mediocre Deshawn Stevenson hitting like 95 out of 100 3s in his battle with Arenas.

So Rondo is in fact a bricklayer. The percentage is meaningless. And it's not only that he misses shots it that he misses what are bunnies for most NBA players. Rondo rarely takes jumpers never mind contested ones..

Like I said I give him alot of credit for really doing well despite sucking at the fundamental NBA skill. It's kinda like a guy being a top ten tennis player with a club level forehand. <g> Its Jason Kiddesque what he is doing right now. I am not even convinced Rondo can outshoot a good HS player. (Not some guy who could go pro but the best shooter on normal HS varsity). I know I shot better then 60% on my free throws. <g>

Pete

[Gant]

^^But it is VERY misleading..."oh Rondo shoots 50% so it's all good"...no it's not. If we play a team who clogs the middle, then it gets very bad for us...

Right on..

It's the only thing that DOES matter.

Hell no. FG% tops BA for worst statistic in sports.

FG% is almost meaningless. Perkins led the NBA in field goal percentage not long ago right? Don't get me wrong Perkins can shoot some but we all know Pierce and Ray Allen are MUCH better shooters. It's night and day difference really..

Not only does field goal percentage not tell you what kind of shots are taken (layups, jumpers, runners etc). It tells you nothing about the conditions those shots are taken in. Rondo misses WIDE OPEN JUMPERS. He misses jumpers when there is no one within 10feet of him. Which isn't surprising since he misses the normal unguarded shot - a free throw.

Good shooters OTOH are covered and thus shoot far more difficult shots. It's much harder to change the trajectory of your J and shoot over someone then to shoot a wide open shot. That's why you can shoot like 40% and still be a great shooter. Or you can shoot 60% like Perkins and be just "okay for a center."

I remember when Giddens worked out against PP he was saying "Wow I didn't know Pierce could shoot like that." But thats what good NBA players do they shoot very well from all over the court. And consquently the average decent shooter have guys stuck all over him. I have heard it said that the average NBA shooter would hit around 70% of his UNCONTESTED Js. With Rondo that number is down around 30%. And I'd say that number is much higher for a guard. See for example that video of the mediocre Deshawn Stevenson hitting like 95 out of 100 3s in his battle with Arenas.

So Rondo is in fact a bricklayer. The percentage is meaningless. And it's not only that he misses shots it that he misses what are bunnies for most NBA players. Rondo rarely takes jumpers never mind contested ones..

Like I said I give him alot of credit for really doing well despite sucking at the fundamental NBA skill. It's kinda like a guy being a top ten tennis player with a club level forehand. <g> Its Jason Kiddesque what he is doing right now. I am not even convinced Rondo can outshoot a good HS player. (Not some guy who could go pro but the best shooter on normal HS varsity). I know I shot better then 60% on my free throws. <g>

Pete

What matters is efficiency. He gets lay ups because he's terrific on the drive. As long as layups count for the same two points as a 20 footer and are a higher percentage shot, then go get a layup.

When he adds a jumper, that's great. In the meantime leading all guards in fg% is very impressive. Tony Parker is similar, but Rondo is more drive oriented and more efficient.

He does need to add a jumpshot because in certain situations the team needs that. Also if he has a jumper he'll get even more assists and more layups.

But fg% is not a bogus stat. Along with TS% it's just about the only thing that matters.

[GreenDreamer]

^^But it is VERY misleading..."oh Rondo shoots 50% so it's all good"...no it's not. If we play a team who clogs the middle, then it gets very bad for us...

Right on..

It's the only thing that DOES matter.

Hell no. FG% tops BA for worst statistic in sports.

FG% is almost meaningless. Perkins led the NBA in field goal percentage not long ago right? Don't get me wrong Perkins can shoot some but we all know Pierce and Ray Allen are MUCH better shooters. It's night and day difference really..

Not only does field goal percentage not tell you what kind of shots are taken (layups, jumpers, runners etc). It tells you nothing about the conditions those shots are taken in. Rondo misses WIDE OPEN JUMPERS. He misses jumpers when there is no one within 10feet of him. Which isn't surprising since he misses the normal unguarded shot - a free throw.

Good shooters OTOH are covered and thus shoot far more difficult shots. It's much harder to change the trajectory of your J and shoot over someone then to shoot a wide open shot. That's why you can shoot like 40% and still be a great shooter. Or you can shoot 60% like Perkins and be just "okay for a center."

I remember when Giddens worked out against PP he was saying "Wow I didn't know Pierce could shoot like that." But thats what good NBA players do they shoot very well from all over the court. And consquently the average decent shooter have guys stuck all over him. I have heard it said that the average NBA shooter would hit around 70% of his UNCONTESTED Js. With Rondo that number is down around 30%. And I'd say that number is much higher for a guard. See for example that video of the mediocre Deshawn Stevenson hitting like 95 out of 100 3s in his battle with Arenas.

So Rondo is in fact a bricklayer. The percentage is meaningless. And it's not only that he misses shots it that he misses what are bunnies for most NBA players. Rondo rarely takes jumpers never mind contested ones..

Like I said I give him alot of credit for really doing well despite sucking at the fundamental NBA skill. It's kinda like a guy being a top ten tennis player with a club level forehand. <g> Its Jason Kiddesque what he is doing right now. I am not even convinced Rondo can outshoot a good HS player. (Not some guy who could go pro but the best shooter on normal HS varsity). I know I shot better then 60% on my free throws. <g>

Pete

What matters is efficiency. He gets lay ups because he's terrific on the drive. As long as layups count for the same two points as a 20 footer and are a higher percentage shot, then go get a layup.

When he adds a jumper, that's great. In the meantime leading all guards in fg% is very impressive. Tony Parker is similar, but Rondo is more drive oriented and more efficient.

He does need to add a jumpshot because in certain situations the team needs that. Also if he has a jumper he'll get even more assists and more layups.

But fg% is not a bogus stat. Along with TS% it's just about the only thing that matters.

It's OK, Gant. What this guy and his soul brother Insatiable fail to understand is that Rondo manages to score very efficiently. That what he does works for him and for the team. That the team does not get better when he is off the court - that they get worse.

Forget about defense and overall rebounding. The Celtics are one of the best, if not the best, inside scoring teams in the league. Who leads them in points scored inside? That would be Rondo. Who is the guy most responsible for setting up good scoring opportunities inside? That would be Rondo. Kevin, for example, shoots .540 playing with Rajon and .463 playing with House. Eddie "spreads the floor" which supposedly should enhance Garnett's inside game. Does it? Nope, not at all. K.G. is almost entirely dependent on Rondo for his inside points, and if Rondo isn't out there, Kevin is a jumpshooter.

Hell, these guys actually think that Rondo is holding the Celtics back. It doesn't occur to them that it just might be that Rondo is making the others look BETTER than they otherwise would. That scoring efficiently is scoring efficiently. Garnett's out of the lineup, and what does Rondo do? He scores more points MORE efficiently. He actually makes it look positively easy to rip defenses apart.

The reality is simple in the end. These dudes talked a lot of crap about the kid. He is making them look like ambulatory vegetables, and they don't like it, so they continue to spew.

[Jammer]

Gant and Greendreamer:

What Pete's talking about, in a round about way,
is the difference between racking up stats in the regular season
and being able to perform against the top 3 or 4 defenses out there.

Rondo can rack up stats very efficiently against all just about every team,
but,
there comes a time when like against Cleveland last year,
the Celtics needed another player who could make a shot.

Last year the bench had 2 dependable shooters,
Eddie House and James Posey.

If Steph comes on board, they gain a second dependable shooter.
Steph doesn't have Posey's ability from 3,
but Steph's deadly from 20 feet and in,
able to create his own shot,
take to the rim AND FINISH,
split double teams,
it's a whole new world for the second unit.

Plus, Steph can play with the first unit at the end of a game
because he can make a shot.

Having Steph and Eddie on the bench is great.

[Celtsfan1980]

It's OK, Gant. What this guy and his soul brother Insatiable fail to understand is that Rondo manages to score very efficiently. That what he does works for him and for the team. That the team does not get better when he is off the court - that they get worse.

Forget about defense and overall rebounding. The Celtics are one of the best, if not the best, inside scoring teams in the league. Who leads them in points scored inside? That would be Rondo. Who is the guy most responsible for setting up good scoring opportunities inside? That would be Rondo. Kevin, for example, shoots .540 playing with Rajon and .463 playing with House. Eddie "spreads the floor" which supposedly should enhance Garnett's inside game. Does it? Nope, not at all. K.G. is almost entirely dependent on Rondo for his inside points, and if Rondo isn't out there, Kevin is a jumpshooter.

Hell, these guys actually think that Rondo is holding the Celtics back. It doesn't occur to them that it just might be that Rondo is making the others look BETTER than they otherwise would. That scoring efficiently is scoring efficiently. Garnett's out of the lineup, and what does Rondo do? He scores more points MORE efficiently. He actually makes it look positively easy to rip defenses apart.

The reality is simple in the end. These dudes talked a lot of crap about the kid. He is making them look like ambulatory vegetables, and they don't like it, so they continue to spew.

I'm curious where you're getting Garnett's stats with and without Rondo from? What about Pierce and Allen?

[MyInsatiableOne]

^^But it is VERY misleading..."oh Rondo shoots 50% so it's all good"...no it's not. If we play a team who clogs the middle, then it gets very bad for us...

Right on..

It's the only thing that DOES matter.

Hell no. FG% tops BA for worst statistic in sports.

FG% is almost meaningless. Perkins led the NBA in field goal percentage not long ago right? Don't get me wrong Perkins can shoot some but we all know Pierce and Ray Allen are MUCH better shooters. It's night and day difference really..

Not only does field goal percentage not tell you what kind of shots are taken (layups, jumpers, runners etc). It tells you nothing about the conditions those shots are taken in. Rondo misses WIDE OPEN JUMPERS. He misses jumpers when there is no one within 10feet of him. Which isn't surprising since he misses the normal unguarded shot - a free throw.

Good shooters OTOH are covered and thus shoot far more difficult shots. It's much harder to change the trajectory of your J and shoot over someone then to shoot a wide open shot. That's why you can shoot like 40% and still be a great shooter. Or you can shoot 60% like Perkins and be just "okay for a center."

I remember when Giddens worked out against PP he was saying "Wow I didn't know Pierce could shoot like that." But thats what good NBA players do they shoot very well from all over the court. And consquently the average decent shooter have guys stuck all over him. I have heard it said that the average NBA shooter would hit around 70% of his UNCONTESTED Js. With Rondo that number is down around 30%. And I'd say that number is much higher for a guard. See for example that video of the mediocre Deshawn Stevenson hitting like 95 out of 100 3s in his battle with Arenas.

So Rondo is in fact a bricklayer. The percentage is meaningless. And it's not only that he misses shots it that he misses what are bunnies for most NBA players. Rondo rarely takes jumpers never mind contested ones..

Like I said I give him alot of credit for really doing well despite sucking at the fundamental NBA skill. It's kinda like a guy being a top ten tennis player with a club level forehand. <g> Its Jason Kiddesque what he is doing right now. I am not even convinced Rondo can outshoot a good HS player. (Not some guy who could go pro but the best shooter on normal HS varsity). I know I shot better then 60% on my free throws. <g>

Pete

^Well said. The reason Rondo even gets to take those WIDE OPEN shots is they sag off of him knowing he either isn't going to shoot it or he'll shoot it and not make it. That is a major problem.

Hell I've only played pickup ball the last 10 years (after playing ball in school previously) and I can shoot the 15-20 ft jumper REALLY WELL with guys in my face (and with no refs, you get hacked a LOT playing pickup ball). And I would smoke Rondo in the FT department...and newsflash people...the court is the same size and the hoop the same height whether it's at the Garden or your local Y gym...

[MyInsatiableOne]

It's OK, Gant. What this guy and his soul brother Insatiable fail to understand is that Rondo manages to score very efficiently. That what he does works for him and for the team. That the team does not get better when he is off the court - that they get worse.

Forget about defense and overall rebounding. The Celtics are one of the best, if not the best, inside scoring teams in the league. Who leads them in points scored inside? That would be Rondo. Who is the guy most responsible for setting up good scoring opportunities inside? That would be Rondo. Kevin, for example, shoots .540 playing with Rajon and .463 playing with House. Eddie "spreads the floor" which supposedly should enhance Garnett's inside game. Does it? Nope, not at all. K.G. is almost entirely dependent on Rondo for his inside points, and if Rondo isn't out there, Kevin is a jumpshooter.

Hell, these guys actually think that Rondo is holding the Celtics back. It doesn't occur to them that it just might be that Rondo is making the others look BETTER than they otherwise would. That scoring efficiently is scoring efficiently. Garnett's out of the lineup, and what does Rondo do? He scores more points MORE efficiently. He actually makes it look positively easy to rip defenses apart.

The reality is simple in the end. These dudes talked a lot of crap about the kid. He is making them look like ambulatory vegetables, and they don't like it, so they continue to spew.

I'm curious where you're getting Garnett's stats with and without Rondo from? What about Pierce and Allen?

Don't worry about greendreamer, he's just a **** jerk. I don't know how many times in this and other threads I can type "don't get me wrong, I love Rondo's game" before offering a critique and this **** idiot doesn't comprehend it...

No, I don't think Rondo's holding the team back...I think he is fantastic. But you cannot deny he cannot shoot the J for ****, and that is a problem for us. If we play a top D (which we are likely to in the playoffs) or a team with good interior D that shuts off his driving lanes, we are back to playing 3 on 5 on offense. I don't think it's too much to ask for an NBA PLAYER to learn how to shoot a good midrange jumper...I don't need him to shoot it at a 60% clip but something north of 30% would be nice. Same with the FTs...60% for a PG is inexcusable.

Rondo's passing, rebounding, defense, court-vision, driving ability are phenomenal...I honestly think he's a top 5 PG in the NBA. But the lack of a shot is going to bite us big time like it almost did in the playoffs last year...then what will his wanna-be girlfriend, I mean greendreamer, think?