Should the C's change their starting lineup against ORL?

[J-Ville Smoke]

Magic fan here.

You guys are worrying too much about the mismatch of Davis/Lewis. IMO Allen/Redick will do much more to counteract whatever advantage we have at the 4.

Also, while Pietrus wasn't exactly a world-beater against Philly, his success in that series was due the great defensive job he did on Iggy in limited minutes, most Magic fans were clamoring for SVG to bench Hedo for Pietrus because Turk was constantly getting burned by Iguodala.

Also, I think putting Pierce on Lewis would be a terrible for you guys, Rashard has been dominant in the post lately, and I see PP getting in foul trouble early if he is forced to go down low to defend Rashard.

Full disclosure, I don't know how good a post defender Pierce is, but not many people can defend the wide array of post moves Lewis has down there, not to mention his range.

[sully00]

BFB

C'mon Eddie House was shooting 30%/27% in this series before Game 7, he had a great game but the guy struggles in the post season through out his career and he needs to show some consistency before you can believe he is going be a primetime performer.

Boston is going to need 75 -80 mpg out of Perk and Baby to win this series, Scal, Moore, and small ball isn't going to bail them out unless either House or Marbury get a lot better.

The biggest advantage Boston has in this series is at SG, with Lee out the Magic are forced into using Pietrus who is terrible or Reddick who is better offensively but can't guard Ray Allen, by playing House you bail ORL out of their most difficult match up. They can play Hedu on Ray and attack Ray on the defensive end.

Lewis isn't the concern in this series from a match up standpoint, the irony is he usually gives KG fits because Garnett does not want to stray from the paint, and looks to shot block as opposed to cut off the lane to the basket. Howard is the issue and that is going to have to be a team approach most likely it will be some sort of ugly hacking one at that to keep Perk out of trouble. We are going to see plenty of everything but Boston needs to keep Pietrus on the floor and attack Lewis defensively, they do that by keeping Baby on the floor.

[ryaningf]

I'm sure that Davis will get the chance to "start" to see what happens, but lets be real here - Davis has rebounded about as well as Lewis has as a PF...he is not a factor on the glass.

Lewis should have no trouble getting his offense against Davis, you are defending your guy more than you are looking at the facts - nothing Davis does well is a challenge for Lewis - Davis will score some points because Lewis isn't an astute defender and will mess up when Davis is doing his off-ball stuff, but I don't see what Davis is going to do to Lewis with the ball in his hands.

If you'd stop to think about what is good for the series and not just what is good for Davis' upcoming payday, you'd realize that Perk and Davis represent the ONLY two people on this roster that can do a decent defensive job on Howard. I don't want Scal in the starting lineup just for his defense, but I sure as hell would rather put Pierce on Lewis and get that match up squarely in Boston's favor than hope that Davis can find another gear and mitigate what are glaring limitations to him in this matchup. Davis is a finesse player, he isn't going to be muscling anybody unless its as a pure 5 defensively with a banger looking for contact in Howard.

We can argue this all day - tomorrow we'll see it in action...Boston's best and clear advantage is to go small and use a rotation at SG, which is Orlando's weakest position - that is smarter than trying to make Davis take yet another leap forward by playing Lewis to a standstill while robbing the team of the only backup Center we've got to put on D Ho...

Come on, you know this is true - Davis will get his chance on Lewis, but I sure as **** would have a contingency plan in place based off the facts - not faith....if Davis gets burned, the team needs to go to its other options...

Bill's making some strong points here. In order of importance:
1. Only Baby and Perk can guard Howard. It would be IDEAL if all 12 of their fouls were spent on Howard. That means playing Baby strictly at center.
2. Baby versus Lewis is a BAD matchup. Baby struggles against perimeter 4s and Lewis might be the best perimeter 4 in the league.
3. Pierce versus Lewis is a good matchup for us. Pierce gives up a little height to Lewis, but he should be able to score and defend him reasonably well. The only worry is if Lewis gets hot from 3.
4. By going small we'll actually play to our strengths. We have pretty good depth at guard, while the Magic are hurting a little in that area. By going small (putting Pierce at 4), we can accentuate our strengths.

So, going forward, I'd say start a small ball lineup with Paul at the 4 and TA sliding in at 2-guard. This leaves the bench rotation intact and puts TA in the best position to succeed--you bring in House and Marbury as needed if TA isn't playing well. Baby is the primary backup at center, coming in early should Perk get in foul trouble. He should also be a good matchup against Gortat, and help provide some needed bench scoring. Scal can be the primary backup at 4, spelling Pierce or taking TA off the court as needed (down the stretch Doc might be reluctant to use TA).

But overall, the best part of playing small ball (other than it being the best way to matchup with Orlando and it minimizes our lack of big men) is that it will really open up Rondo's driving lanes. We'll be able to spread the lane, set a high pick with Perk (or Baby) and then let Rondo do his magic, driving for a layup or dishing to Ray or Paul or Scal on the perimeter.

Unlike the Chicago series, where we really didn't matchup well with the Bulls when they went small, I think we matchup very well against Orlando. We have both defensive (Perk and TA) and offensive (Scal and Baby) small ball lineups that don't have many areas of weakness for Orlando to exploit.

Let's just hope it doesn't take Doc more than a game to realize where his advantages lie. I expect him to keep the same starting lineup for game 1, but after that I hope he puts Baby on the bench to start the game, with either Paul or Scal starting at 4.

[Red2]

I don't think doc will change his lineup.baby has earned the right to start. I do think though that scall will spend a lot of time on lewis and turkulo. I'd love to see walker get some pt.

[vct33]

I hate to be a TA basher but well, I am a TA basher. I was very unhappy that we didn't let him walk last offseason. At this point, I'd rather see Walker or Pruitt over TA.

[humblebum]

I don't think there is any chance that the Celtics start Pierce at the PF or slide Eddie into the starting rotation. I agree with the Magic fan who pointed out Lewis' prowess on the low post. By putting Pierce on Lewis you're effectively opening the door for the Magic to utilize Lewis on the block more, in general I feel that the Magic underutilize this offensive option. The second problem with this is that Pierce now has to battle down low and help Perk out on the defensive glass against Howard. Bad idea.

Scal is the best option at PF in this series to start. Moving Davis doesn't have anything to do with him being a poor matchup against Lewis, frankly I don't think he's a considerably worse matchup than Scal when you factor in Davis' better all around offense. But moving Davis is imperative to defending Howard... who is the more important matchup concern.

I agree with the poster who also stated that using House or TA in the starting lineup essentially lets the Magic defense off the hook. Right now the Magic have two undesirable matchups in the starting lineup at the SG and SF positions. Not to mention there is no point in messing with what has been good for the Celtics... Ray and Paul are SG's and SF's respectively, it would be silly to play them out of position.

[billfromBoston]

I don't think there is any chance that the Celtics start Pierce at the PF or slide Eddie into the starting rotation. I agree with the Magic fan who pointed out Lewis' prowess on the low post. By putting Pierce on Lewis you're effectively opening the door for the Magic to utilize Lewis on the block more, in general I feel that the Magic underutilize this offensive option. The second problem with this is that Pierce now has to battle down low and help Perk out on the defensive glass against Howard. Bad idea.

Scal is the best option at PF in this series to start. Moving Davis doesn't have anything to do with him being a poor matchup against Lewis, frankly I don't think he's a considerably worse matchup than Scal when you factor in Davis' better all around offense. But moving Davis is imperative to defending Howard... who is the more important matchup concern.

I agree with the poster who also stated that using House or TA in the starting lineup essentially lets the Magic defense off the hook. Right now the Magic have two undesirable matchups in the starting lineup at the SG and SF positions. Not to mention there is no point in messing with what has been good for the Celtics... Ray and Paul are SG's and SF's respectively, it would be silly to play them out of position.

Silly, huh?

The team HAS played Paul as a PF and Ray as a SF against unconventional lineups in the past and I am POSITIVE we will see it in this series at times - nothing "silly" about it.

You're points on Pierce don't sway me - he is an excellent rebounder and he is about as physical as they come - he doesn't have to "battle down low with Howard" any more than he would any other time he's crashing the defensive glass, which he does fairly frequently.

Lewis' post game is about as dynamic as Nowitzki's - he has a turnaround J that he uses off the post up - that's about it - no rolling hooks, up-and-under, etc...Pierce would be conceding a fall-away jumper - I can live with that.

We all know the starting lineup is going to be the same come tip-off...just don't be suprised if the minutes played at each position are significantly different this series than last...Pierce will play minutes at the 4, maybe alot of them - you can count on it.

[UGA Hayes]

AS much as I don't want to do it I don't think it would be totally insane to give Walker a try if necessary in this serious. The turkoglu/Lewis matchup could end up being a major major problem and we might have to do something risky.

[billfromBoston]

AS much as I don't want to do it I don't think it would be totally insane to give Walker a try if necessary in this serious. The turkoglu/Lewis matchup could end up being a major major problem and we might have to do something risky.

Well, the team is going to have to do something for depth, right? I am assuming Doc isn't going to attempt to play 5 guys 40+ minutes every game again.

As inexperienced as Walker is, I would like to see him just get a cameo to see what happens - he's a bonafide 3/4 who could defend both Lewis and Turkoglu in theory.

I know i'm a "try it" type guy and Doc is more conservative with inexperienced players, but I don't know what other choices there are unless they simply run everyone into the ground again this series - I don't think it hurts to try eary in the 2nd quarter for 3-4 minutes...could be beneficial for saving guys legs down the stretch.

[UGA Hayes]

Either way, I would wait to see how it goes initially. Theoretically the Magic should take advantage of some of the matchups if the lineup stay the same, but Turkoglu can dissappear at times and Lewis could start missing shots. All the sudden Baby could look pretty good and we start seeing guys like Battie and Gortat in the game. For all we know we could be talking about how Orlando can't keep Glen Davis off the boards. I do hope we don't give Davis too many post up opportunities. Rondo made a lot of mistakes giving Davis the ball on switches far away from the basket, which damn near cost us game 7.

I thought Doc had a surisingly poor series against the Bulls, and one qualm I had is that alot of times he let the bulls dictate the matchup. In particular Tony allen for Davis when Davis was playing well (game 4 I believe, whichever one he fouled Gordon on the 3 pt shot) really was a huge mistake IMO.

[J-Ville Smoke]

Lewis' post game is about as dynamic as Nowitzki's - he has a turnaround J that he uses off the post up - that's about it - no rolling hooks, up-and-under, etc...Pierce would be conceding a fall-away jumper - I can live with that.

You haven't seen Rashard's post game that often then. In addition to his baseline turnaround (Which is impossible to defend) he has a jump hook, an up and under, and a nice little false-step runner. I'm not saying he is as good as Nowitzki, but you severely underrate the complexity of his post game.

[Rocky5000]

Being worried about Lewis in the post, is like teams being worried about Antoine(circa 2000) in the post. Yeah they both can play in the post pretty well, but they both prefer to shoot the long ball.

[LenBiasBaller]

Scal might have height, but he doesn't have jump or great reaction time. I do not feel confident at all with him on Rashard Lewis, he is better near the basket not on the perimeter.

Mikki just isn't a good enough defender and would end up in foul trouble IMO.

One thing we could do, I'm not sure if it would be smart but could be worth considering, is to let Baby put a body on Dwight while having Perk guard Rashard Lewis.

Yikes! Perk on Rashard. Are you nuts? You want Perk guarding a 3 point shooter on the perimeter? Perk is a good low post defender. Lets not get crazy.

I say let BBD starts and we see how things go. Then the first sub off the bench is Scal to come in for BBD to guard Rashard. Then BBD subs back in for Perk when he gets tired to guard Dwight. That is the lineup I would go with. Either BBD or Scal guard Lewis with a little Tony sprinkled in to change up looks. Either way we are losing this matchup IMO unless a guy like Scal can D up like he did to Amare and then its a wash.

LoL...I can't believe we are relying on Scal this much potentially but he could be our X factor this series if he plays solid D and stretches the defense with shooting.

[LenBiasBaller]

Giving walker burn to guard either Hedo or Rashard would be a good idea but I have a feeling Bill is glued to that bench. Doc has no faith/confidence in the bench unless they come in and start lighting up threes like Eddie.

It sucks and I know its hard to have confidence in certain bench guys during the playoffs but I think it is the route we have to go. Look at the game Ray had 51 points vs. the bulls. He had a ton of rest the game before because he fouled out. In turn he had fresh legs and murdered the bulls that game.

[tranjSAIC]

Sure, but all teams have faced a similiar issue versus the Magic and the Magic were one of the worst teams in the league on the O-boards in the regular season

That's mainly due to the style of play, we only send Howard for the offensive rebounds, everyone else hustles down for the transition D.

[tranjSAIC]

What's up with all this small ball talk, I know if worked last series when you played the Bulls but guess what your not playing them again. Playing small ball might work against a team like the Bulls but when you have the most dominate inside player you can't go small all the time he will eat you alive. I think you guys have to keep Baby on the beach so he is Perks backup. Perk and Baby are the only two capable of defending Dwight, plus when Baby is in he draws Dwight out further from the paint. I remember a few of the games this year, Dwight had no interest in guarding Baby's jumper and he killed us.

Personally I don't think Rondo is going to have the same type of series he had against the Bulls. While Rose is an outstanding player he is a horrible defender overall. Alston is a pretty good defender I would even say top 5 for his position, not Rondo good though. I think the X factor for you guys would be Baby. He killed us because his jumper was on every time we played you guys, plus he is the only other body besides Perk that can defend Dwight.

If Baby has a huge series I can see you guys winning, otherwise I like our chances.

[Dirty Water]

I hate to be a TA basher but well, I am a TA basher. I was very unhappy that we didn't let him walk last offseason. At this point, I'd rather see Walker or Pruitt over TA.

IMO theres reasons we held onto our lead late in Game 7. And one of those reasons is TA didn't sniff the floor.

[threrf23]

AS much as I don't want to do it I don't think it would be totally insane to give Walker a try if necessary in this serious. The turkoglu/Lewis matchup could end up being a major major problem and we might have to do something risky.

I am with you here.

You haven't seen Rashard's post game that often then. In addition to his baseline turnaround (Which is impossible to defend) he has a jump hook, an up and under, and a nice little false-step runner. I'm not saying he is as good as Nowitzki, but you severely underrate the complexity of his post game.

Doesn't change the fact that he is not big and powerful enough to the point where PP couldn't defend him.

Yikes! Perk on Rashard. Are you nuts? You want Perk guarding a 3 point shooter on the perimeter? Perk is a good low post defender. Lets not get crazy.

The thought might be crazy, but Perk tends to surprise me as his seeming lack of agility doesn't tend to prevent him from being a capable fundamentally sound defender away from the basket. Where he might lack in terms of perimeter ability, he has height and perhaps he could make up for weaknesses by really getting into Lewis' head and exposing him for the soft player that he is. If other options aren't working, I say try it until Perk picks up a foul.

IMO theres reasons we held onto our lead late in Game 7. And one of those reasons is TA didn't sniff the floor.

TA shouldn't be used in situations where we need him trying to do too much of anything on offense, but that doesn't change the fact that he can be a valuable, situational role player. When possible, I don't mind seeing him called on to guard Rafer Alston. Conventional logic says use him to guard the opposition's best wing player. But I feel he could turn Alston into a liability for the Magic. Turning the opposition's PG into a liability is never a bad thing. This could also help take Alston off of Rondo when we have the ball, relevant as Alston is a better defender than anyone the Magic have playing SG.

[sully00]

I love the idea of Walker but I will believe it when I see it.

The irony in all of this is the fact that ORL has actually looked to go big to force the match ups some want by going small. I would look for ORL to go with Gortat or Battie up front at times with Howard to essentially get Pierce off of Hedu.

I would also love to see Howard try and post Perk as opposed to finishing off someone else's offense. He is much better post player than say last season but he isn't not an offensive force with the ball in his hands at least no yet.