Cavs fan: Is Boston really better then Cleveland and Orlano?

[15th overall]

i didn't read your whole post, i think i'll just wait for the movie.

This was a really great line. One worthy of me quoting.

Other than that I have Nothing to add to this thread.

[Darth Celtic]

The problem I have with Cleveland is that they still don't have an offense. I think Shaq made them better, but they are still going to run into the same problem when they face the top teams like Boston, Orlando, SA and LAL - all those teams have enough defense, big men, and scoring punch to beat them. In crunch time, Lebron cannot make EVERY shot. Mo Williams is a great 3rd guy, and at this point Shaq is the same. They still do not have that other true star, and I don't think Anthony Parker or Jamario Moon will suddenly morph into that.

If they face the Magic again in the playoffs, their guards are still going to be undersized and not good enough off the dribble to match up, and if they face Boston, I don't think anyone on their roster can slow Rondo or KG down.

I think Mike Brown has taken this team as far as he can; he just doesn't have the offensive creativity (or weaponry) to take them over the top, even with the best player of our generation. That said, I still think they will run through the regular season like a hot knife through butter, because LBJ is a master motivator and they have a ton to play for this year.

This was right on. I agree on the offense. We just havent been able to piece it together in crunch time. Shaq should really help though. Mike Brown has said he would like us to get more of a running offense this year. I think that would really help us out.

We also have a new offensive coordinator in Mike Malone, our offense will be much better under him. He is a great coach that is on the rise and he will be making our offense more efficient.

Your right we dont have anyone to guard Rondo, were just going to have to sick with Mo. He isnt a great defender but he is solid and is still working on it. Andy wouldnt be able to stop KG but he can definitely limit him. Andy has shown flashes of being able to guard him.

If we dont reach the finals this season then Mike Brown could be out. He is on the hot seat, so there is extra pressure for him to really come out and show what he is doing.


Some team will take Allen. I'm surprised you guys are so eager to get rid of him. I know he wasnt what most fans thought he would be but he has performed well. May I ask why is this?

so, shaq will help in crunch time? u ever look at his ft %? the c's will play him one on one, if he puts a move and gets a shot, he will get hammered and have to make free throws.

[damo[23]]

Orlando Fan:

First off, Boston have a great team anyway, back to back solid seasons, arguably the best team of the past two years, if not the best.

With the Cav's I don't know if they've improved until I see them, and with the Magic, while I am pleased with the off season, with a few changes like this, you do need to see them in action first.

Boston really is the only team of the big 3 that has one thing I fail to see anyone talk about. Continuity.

Boston hasn't made all that many changes, and the ones they have are good ones. But the core setup and mentality is the same, and they just need one or two players to buy in to that - and for someone like R.Wallace, a former champ himself, it might not be that hard.

Age will be spoken about, but really I think Boston is one season away from that being a factor, injury is more relevant, and even that's just a "if it happens". Boston didn't look all that bad a couple of months ago, I don't think they'll have aged to badly this off season ...

All in all, I think we'll have much the same as last season in terms of who is there in the top 3.

But I won't hold my breathe to ever see a good word said about the Magic, since I think we could go down as the most hated franchise on RealGM lol.

[floyd]

This was right on. I agree on the offense. We just havent been able to piece it together in crunch time. Shaq should really help though. Mike Brown has said he would like us to get more of a running offense this year. I think that would really help us out.

Shaq may help you in crunch time, having a post option, but if you think you're going to be much a of running team with him on the floor, you're crazy. When Boston played Phoenix last year, the game plan from the start was to push the ball. I think we were up 45 in the first half mostly because Shaq couldn't get down the floor.

I agree with the continuity comment above. Boston is the only team that hasn't changed its starting lineup this offseason. Putting Vince, Shaq, Artest, or Jeffeson into your starting lineup sounds great on paper, but you don't know how it will work until you play the games.

[sam_I_am]

Orlando may regret losing Hedo as he was a mismatch nightmare at PF and SF. However, Rashard Lewis is even more dangerous as a SF because few at that position can defend an athletic 6-10 guy who is lights out from 3 point land and other than Lebron there are few that are going to challenge him taking it to the rim.

Vince Carter is a dangerous player. We can all enjoy dissing him for being soft but he brings a dimension to Orlando that they simply did not have. He can flat out drop 40 when he is hot. His lack of intensity can be absorbed to some degree by a team that really does play hard and compete hard. With Matt Barnes and Pietrus they certainly won't be without options on those days when his head is not in the game.

Howard is going to be better this year and Jameer Nelson will be entering his prime.

This team is very scary and is more equipped to beat the Lakers than last years team. Sure, the matchup advantage they had over Cleveland could disappear. But who on Cleveland is going to guard Carter? D. West? Rashard Lewis is still going to give Lebron fits and keep him from helping out in the paint. Can Pierce defend Lewis? Can Allen contain Carter?

The East will be very interesting.

And we haven't discussed Washington yet who will be the 5th or 6th seed nobody wants to play in playoffs.

[humblebum]

First off, damo23 excellent post.

And to sam I am, I just think that you're overlooking a couple of things. One is that Rashard is a much worse defender at the SF spot, especially against the quicker guys. Pierce will be happy to have Hedo off of him with Rashard in his place. And if you move Rashard down to the SF then you have Bass on KG? That's a huge advantage. Our two best players are Pierce and KG and IMO the best matchups that Orlando can trot out there are Pietrus/Lewis or Lewis/Bass, whereas last season they had Hedo/Lewis and Pietrus/Lewis, which IMO were tougher pairings offensively and defensively for the Celtics. And there is also the question of how losing Hedo for Pietrus affects Orlando's rebounding and Barnes has no chance of guarding Pierce off the bench, whereas Pietrus is one of the better ones. So anyway you slice it the Magic are going to have a tougher time matching up with Pierce, and they've always had issues with the Shard/KG matchup. Bass, Anderson, and Gortat are really not better matchups either.

Carter is a more explosive scorer than Turk but Turk was a matchup nightmare from a physical standpoint and he was a more natural playmaker in the P&R. The only player the Celtics had on the roster to guard Hedo last season was Pierce, and he didn't really have the size to stop him from passing/shooting over the top. The Celtics can throw multiple defenders at Carter: Ray Allen, Tony Allen if he stays (a very good defender against natural SG's IMO), Marquis Daniels (if he's signed) and Paul Pierce. That's a tremendous plus for the Celtics.

So although I believe that Orlando is very very good I think they've hurt their chances against Boston quite a bit, though they still seem like they have enough advantages against Cleveland, and have improved their ability to matchup with Bryant by adding Carter.

So IMO I look at Boston and LAL as the two top teams (if LA keeps Odom) with Cleveland and Orlando being right there but needing to avoid certain matchups in the playoffs (Orlando needs to avoid Boston and Cleveland needs to avoid Orlando).

[Witness23]

I think this off-season Orlando built there team to beat L.A. Thats a risky move considering they have to get out of the East first.

[TheCelticTruth]

i feel like orlando deserves to be considered a top team by virtue of their success last year and making it to the finals, but there is no doubt in my mind that san antonio, la, cleveland, and boston are more proven and more battle tested.

and i think the exchange in orlando's line up from hedo to vince cant be understated. i dont see how vince makes the team better. there were multiple pieces written/observations made during the magic's run on how much hedo's play in the pick and roll positively affected dwight howards ability to clean up inside. vince is a guy who can certainly pass the ball, but has never been a distributor/facilitator/creator. and he doesnt play defense.

as a unc fan, i cant think of many players who make less use of their talent than vince, and i also think he has zero toughness. if the magic had kept hedo i would feel like they had improved, but im not sure that vince will be a good fit at all.

[Witness23]

With all the money the Magic spent this off-season they could of just kept Hedo, and be just as good or better. I dont understand that move. I mean I guess he wanted to many years but he can still play and the franchise isnt being built around him. O well there lose Toronto's gain.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Boston: One more season before you have to start worrying about age/injuries, Garnett should bounce back, we've added two players whose impact will be greater than what we missed from Posey and P.J. Brown. Because we have 3 stars, I think the impact of Garnett's absence is underestimated- he's our best player and a franchise player.

Orlando: A lot depends on VC- will he be inspired by playing for a contender or will he wilt in the spotlight? Dwight Howard is the most athletic, dominant big man in the league right now, which will take the Magic far- but he hasn't clearly reached a level where he definitely beats a healthy Celtics' frontcourt.

Cleveland: Which Shaq makes it to Cleveland, the rejuvenated one from last season or the fading star Miami traded away?

[UGA Hayes]

With All that happened last year with Pheonix, including getting a coach who was trying to get him to play defense fired and Shaq shooting his mouth off all of last year, its hard not to be wary about Cleveland. I'm also of the opinion that it only matters so much with a guy as talented as LeBron but I can't help but feel there will be tension behind the scenes. Also this is sort of psychoanalysis, but LeBron and Shaq don't totally strike me as people who would get along all that well on a personal level.

[Darth Celtic]

cleveland rolls over like 4 rotational players every year, sometimes middseason and still can't get it right around james. this year if they don't win a title (doubtfull) expect huge changes, james included. shaq and z will be gone for sure. Long term the c's have 3 years of title tries before we get too old, cavs have 1 and i think they'll go into 3-5 seed.

[magic1636]

Orlando Fan:

IMO I think the order as of now is Boston, Orlando, and then Cleveland. With turk gone that takes away our mismatches which is what made us a tough team, but it also may save a bunch of Magic fans from an early death. Turk has aggrivated alot of Magic fans with his play he was never consistent player, he greatly improved in the ECF and Finals when he was playing lights out ball. Also we havent signed Watson, Orlando wants him and he wants to come to Orlando, the signing of Barnes will make it tougher. Supposedly the GS and ORL are talking about a S&T, but Otis wont give up much for him.

[Fencer reregistered]

Two years ago, when almost everybody except the Lakers was healthy, the Cs were the best in the league and indeed won the championship.

Last year, Orlando beat Cleveland despite the Nelson injury, and Boston gave Orlando a hard time despite the KG injury. I have to think the Lakers and Cs were the best two if-healthy teams, even erasing Powe (but not Davis) from the Boston roster.

Now everybody except perhaps LA is adding further talent. Beyond that, a variety of young players (most notably LBJ and Howard, but also Rondo and others) are improving, and a variety of older ones are trying to stave off decline. It can be argued that Shaq COULD be the biggest addition of the former all-stars that each of LA, SA, Cle, ORL, and Bos has added because, after all, he actually was an all-star last season, and also was the best of all of them in his prime. But I suspect Sheed will be as good. And even if he isn't, I go back to the Cs being better if-healthy than the Cavs last season.

[twinthunder3]

Yes. But not by much though.