Will Grizz trade AI at deadline?

[chakdaddy]

What are you talking about? All they got back for JC was a 2014 2nd round pick. Unless they make the playoffs by 2013, basically.

First of all Javaris' ceilings is pretty ridiculous, and he was a #1 draft pick with tremendous upside when he was drafted by the Lakers in the 1st round. J.C couldn't get minutes over Conley or Lowry,

If Crittenton were so great, he would have been taken higher than 19th, would have played much more than he did, and would presumably fetched more in trade than a future #1 with ironclad protection. If I understand your last post correctly, I think you believed that it was somehow unprotected in this year's draft and would have been the #2 pick. Which is blatantly false, it was top 19 protected.

Right again your taking the Grizz F.O mistakes and the ability to make good trades and your blaming and accusing the Lakers of wrong doings, which again has nothing to do with LA or Jerry West.

How is screwing a team in a trade or taking advantage of a situation like that "wrongdoing"? All is fair, and I wish the Celtics could pull off a trade like that, and I'm frustrated that it's always the Lakers that manage to do it. I'm just bothered by people like you trying to justify the trade has somehow being fair or reasonable.

Again Pau didn't want to play for Memphis, it was very obvious, wasnt it?
So how are you going to pay a player 15 mil a year when your franchise is struggling and your paying someone all that money and he isnt producing for you.
He wasn't playing for Memphis, they traded him for some great talent and expiring contracts.
...

Luckily they got a foreign prospect in Marc who surprised and wound up decent; although they still decided to draft another center in the lottery this year.

How many true 7 footers are in the league today?
Marc Gasol, who Im sure you know was the MVP of the Spanish league. He won a chip in the spanish league and also helped win a gold medal for the Spanish National team as well as 2 silvers. He could very well be better than his brother in a few years to come. He has done very well for his rookie season and he is a starter at this time.

First off, he was not MVP of the Spanish league yet, and had not had his excellent olympic showing at the time of the trade.

In 2007, he was the 48th freaking pick in the draft. (A steal there probably, but still, the 48th pick.) By the time of the trade, he had played a very good half season in the Spanish league. Are you saying that's enough to change the value of a guy from the 48th pick in the draft to the centerpiece of a trade for a star big man?

I think he was a throw-in. He wasn't even mentioned when the first reports of the trade were made, and I remember Laker fans discussing how they shouldn't have bothered to include him, as if they could have gotten away with screwing Memphis worse, since the throw-in turned out to be the only decent value in the trade.

He had a pretty good year in the NBA and looks like a solid guy. I can't see him ever being an All-Star. And Memphis thought center was big enough of a need to spend the #2 pick on Thabeet, who many see as a question mark. So apparently they're still not that sold on Marc, or they would have taken Rubio or Harden or someone...

And I'll ask you how many true 7 footers there are in the league, especially if they are proven like Pau. And that's why he still had trade value. I don't think you understand the concept that a guy can be useless to his current team but still have major trade value. The Grizzlies acted like Pau had little value to them or anyone else. Even Chris Wallace admitted later that they were hasty and maybe should have seen what other teams would offer. Because all they did was erase his contract from their books, get 2 low #1 picks, a recent low #1 pick, and a recent low #2 pick who, probably had boosted his perceived value AT THE TIME OF THE TRADE to that of a mid to low #1 pick (He'd probably warrant a low lotto pick now - and EVEN THEN the trade is a steal for LA, since they got a proven franchise type big.)

Not really, it happens all the time.
Here lets dig in your history books for a change. How about when you guys traded with Golden State with McHale and Parrish for Joe Barry Carrol in 1980??? How about that?
Or better yet Dallas Mavericks traded Robert Traylor to Bucks for Dirk Nowitzki in 1998.
Hell we even got screwed by the Shaq trade, samething that happened with Pau. We had to eat Brian Grants contract for a few years and we traded away Butler for sorry arse Kwame.

I don't follow your logic AT ALL on this. And I think my grasp of history is stronger than yours on this.

The Gasol trade was a dump of a high priced star for low picks and a decent prospect who was a 48th pick in the prior draft.

I compared that to the sale of Dr. J.

Meanwhile, you compare it to trades where the Celtics traded the #1 and #13 picks in the draft for the #3 pick and Robert Parish (one R, by the way.) It turned out to be a steal because the Celtics astutely got a guy at #3 who turned out much better than the consensus #1. But no economic concerns factored in, and the equivalent of the #1 pick plus a 2nd lotto pick for the #3 pick and a good but frustrating center seems reasonable at the time.

Dallas traded a mid lotto pick plus junk for a later lotto pick and grabbed an unproven foreign prospect in Dirk. No one had any idea at the time how Dirk would turn out, and that looked completely reasonable at the time!!! Dallas was smart to wager that Dirk would be better than Tractor, but a swap of lotto picks has nothing to do with the salary dump of a star.

The Shaq trade kind of turned out fair as Butler and Odom were pretty good value.

The fact that Butler for Kwame turned out bad until Memphis erased the mistake (and then some) doesn't have much bearing.

You apparently don't understand the difference between a trade looking fair at the time, while turning out to be one-sided (like the Joe Barry Carroll and Dirk trades) and a trade looking completely unfair and fishy at the time (like the Pau trade.)

Coach pop was one of the coachs that complained about the Pau trade but have you heard anyting from him about the R.J trade that recently took place?? No you know why cause its not the Lakers.

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Obviously no one will complain when it benefits them. The RJ trade is similar, it make more sense in the economic climate of 2009 than that of 2008 though, and a SF like RJ is considerably less valuable than a big man like Pau. But it's the same thing really.

[chakdaddy]

Sorry if I come off insulting on my response, but you really make some bizarre and nonsensical comparisons.

Comparing financially motivated trades that are obviously one-sided at the time, to trades that merely turn out to be one-sided in retrospect.

Not very logical at all.

And it's pretty absurd how you are considering Crittenton some kind of great prospect and implying that Marc may become better than his brother. Marc may become better than Brandon Haywood, I'd say. It just seems insulting for someone to say things as absurd as this.

[TonyMontana]

Sorry if I come off insulting on my response, but you really make some bizarre and nonsensical comparisons.

Comparing financially motivated trades that are obviously one-sided at the time, to trades that merely turn out to be one-sided in retrospect.

Not very logical at all.

And it's pretty absurd how you are considering Crittenton some kind of great prospect and implying that Marc may become better than his brother. Marc may become better than Brandon Haywood, I'd say. It just seems insulting for someone to say things as absurd as this.

Wait why is it absurb casue you as well as other posters are trying very hard to make this trade look so lopsided??? Or you disagree with me and its absurb, also what part of my post is bizarre and nonsensical comparisons.

Financially motivated trades and move was the main and primary reason that the Grizz decided to trade Pau as well as the fact that they had a very unhappy player that they were forking out 15 mil a year and he wasnt producing jack. Isnt that the whole reason that this trade took place?

Yet you argue that the pieces used in these trades benifited noone but LA. How is that they took Kwames expiering contract of 9 mil off their books plus the 3 mil we gave them. They had three players to use for trading baits and they failed on one (J.C) since that was there fault NOT LAs. And the other one was A.M which he decided to reitre, and Marc which was a very well known player in the Euro league which happened to be a legit 7 footer that has done really well for them last season.

They got Javaris Crittenton, Kwame Brown, Aaron McKie, rights to Marc Gasol and 2008 and 2010 first round draft picks. How is that lopsided when your a team in a desperate need for expiring contracts and trying to dump a unhappy player sucking up 15 mil a year that isnt providing you what you expected of him and your in a building process?

So how is that absurb or bizarre? Please tell me. You guys act like J.C was a nobody or he was a joke, he was drafted 9th in the 1st round for certain reasons. Obviosuly we saw potential in him for us to draft him so high.


Paus rookie year.
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
01-02 MEM 82 79 36.7 0.518 0.200 0.709 2.9 6.0 8.9 2.7 0.5 2.1 2.73 2.40 17.6

Marcs rookie season
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
07-08 MEM 82 75 30.7 0.530 0.000 0.733 2.5 4.9 7.4 1.7 0.8 1.1 2.00 3.20 11.9

I actually see similar N# excpet Pau ppg since they are obviously different players and you can also add the fact that Marc was brought in for defensive purposes since we already know that Rudy and O.J are the N#1 option and Pau was a N1# option.

[TonyMontana]

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I will get to this in the morning.

[chakdaddy]

So how is that absurb or bizarre? Please tell me. You guys act like J.C was a nobody or he was a joke, he was drafted 9th in the 1st round for certain reasons. Obviosuly we saw potential in him for us to draft him so high.

He was drafted 19th, not 9th. This is the kind of absurd and blatantly false thing that you have been saying repeatedly. I don't know if you are just mistaken about these things or are lying on purpose, but either way it reflects very poorly.

Cap relief and average prospects/draft picks are a poor return for a star of Pau's caliber, EVEN IF the team is trying to dump his salary.

Just because he had little value as a player in Memphis' situation doesn't mean he didn't have major value as a trade chip.

This is another concept you (and amazingly, MANY people - including Memphis' owner by his comments) don't seem to understand.

I think nearly everyone would agree that you are the one trying very, very, hard to make this trade somehow look NOT lopsided. When it is the most lopsided trade in recent NBA history, has swung the balance of power and created a potential dynasty, and given Jerry West's history of involvement with both franchises, looks even fishier.

The nonsensical comparisons were when you compared trades that look immediately lopsided to ones that merely turn out to be lopsided years down the line. You compared trading an established star for average prospects to several trades involving swaps of lottery picks, all of which were unknown quantities.

The comparisons were completely nonsensical, like all you could see is "trades that eventually turn out bad" as one category without even trying or being able to comprehend the actual details or circumstances of the trades.


I'm not sure why you keep arguing since it doesn't seem like you understand the circumstances of trades, don't have the facts straight about the details, or have the faculty to even analyze a trade and consider its lopsidedness.

[Mahoney_jr]

Honestly, I don't get what the Grizzlies are doing by adding Zach Randolph and Allen Iverson to a very young basketball team. Would you want Zach and AI teaching your young players on how to be a professional basketball player? I wouldn't.

I could see if Zach and AI went to a team full of vets like Boston, San Antonio etc. but to go to a young team is just a disaster waiting to happen IMO.

What is Chris Wallace doing? I guess he really doesn't want to be a GM longterm.

As far as Iverson getting traded at the deadline, with Chris Wallace at the helm anything can happen.

Zach Randolph was a also cost-cutting-move, while AI was signed to push season tix sales. It's all about the money in Memphis and that won't change until Heisley sales.

[TonyMontana]

He was drafted 19th, not 9th. This is the kind of absurd and blatantly false thing that you have been saying repeatedly. I don't know if you are just mistaken about these things or are lying on purpose, but either way it reflects very poorly.

Lying?? Brah you need to calm down. Why would I lie?? Are you kidding? Like I give a hoot about you or this trade to sit on here and LIE to you or anyone else by saying he was drafted 9th instead of 19th.............. WOW a bit excited today arent we?
I made a typo BIG FREAKIN DEAL, I forgot to put a 1 since I posted this late and I MADE A MISTAKE. No need to get personal to prove a point. Calm down with the insults. " This is the kind of absurd and blatantly false thing that you have been saying repeatedly." Where in any of my OTHER posts except my last one did I say according to YOU "REPEATEDLY" that he was drafted 9th instead of 19th? Where? Show me?

Cap relief and average prospects/draft picks are a poor return for a star of Pau's caliber, EVEN IF the team is trying to dump his salary.

Says who. YOU?
I guess your not a NBA G.M now are you? If Wallace and the Grizz Org. felt that this was the best move for their franchise in their best interest then who are you to say its not.

Just because he had little value as a player in Memphis' situation doesn't mean he didn't have major value as a trade chip.

Righttttttt and we saw so many teams running at Memphis with so many offers to obatian him.

This is another concept you (and amazingly, MANY people - including Memphis' owner by his comments) don't seem to understand.

Rightttttt, but somehow somewhere we are all ignorant yet you are a genius.

I think nearly everyone would agree that you are the one trying very, very, hard to make this trade somehow look NOT lopsided.

Here you go again with the YOU this and YOU that B.S.
Let me explain very clearly. I dont give a hoot about this trade or what you think believe me I dont, and this subject has been beaten to death by people like you trying to prove a conspiracy theory bull and trying so hard to make this trade look like it was an inside job by Jerry West to help the Lakers. So does it bother me? Sure it bothers me, but it doesnt bother me enough to sit here and waste my entire day and night trying to justify this trade to you or anyone else, and it doesnt bother me to have to sit here and LIE to you or anyone else for that matter. So take it for what its worth.................... I COULD CARE LESS.

When it is the most lopsided trade in recent NBA history, has swung the balance of power and created a potential dynasty, and given Jerry West's history of involvement with both franchises, looks even fishier.

What you really need to say is that your pissed off Celtic fan who is pissed that the Lakers got a very good player to help them win more titles ........... See how easy that was. Your mad that the Lakers got away by getting Pau according to you for nothing, thats what this is all about. Its not about the trade or the pieces in the trade, its about you and other none Laker fans that are pissed that the Lakers got away with a good trade by trading away their garbage.

Then you want to go overboard by claiming that West had something to do with this trade (Which is only an accusation with no facts) when he clearly stepped away from the Grizz Org. before this trade ever took place, but hey why not throw his name around since he is a Laker legend in make your case against this trade even better and stronger.

The nonsensical comparisons were when you compared trades that look immediately lopsided to ones that merely turn out to be lopsided years down the line. You compared trading an established star for average prospects to several trades involving swaps of lottery picks, all of which were unknown quantities.

I dont know if your slow or your intentionally trying to devert the attention as to why this trade worked out for both teams, but AGAIN the Grizz got cap relief, a very nice young Center prospect, picks, and a nice young guard prospect as well as cash. AGAIN you might disagree but then again your not a NBA G.M now are you.

Also there has been a lot of trades in the past which was one that involved your Cs but funny how you justified that trade since it was the Cs, but again IMO, was the Celtics trade with the Golden State Warriors in 1980, which grabed the third pick in the draft (which Boston used on Kevin Mchale) and center Robert Parrish for the first pick in the draft. The Warriors took Joe Barry Carrol with the No. 1 selection.

And then St. Louis Hawks trade the #2 pick Bill Russell to the Boston Celtics for Ed Macaueley.
A Bill Russell and Bob Petit tandem??

Also another odd one was Rasheed to Detroit I don't know why there wasn't so much whining about this trade as much as Paus trade.

But the Pistons didn't trade a starter, let alone any young prospects to get themselves Rasheed.

Pistons trade: Chucky Atkins, Lindsey Hunter, Bobby Sura, Zeljko Rebraca, 2 first round picks
Pistons receive: Rasheed Wallace, Mike James

Boston trades: Mike James, Chris Mills
Boston recieves: Chucky Atkins, Lindsey Hunter, first round pick

Atlanta trades: Rasheed Wallace
Atltanta recieves: Zeljko Rebraca, Bob Sura, first round pick

The comparisons were completely nonsensical, like all you could see is "trades that eventually turn out bad" as one category without even trying or being able to comprehend the actual details or circumstances of the trades.

I'm not sure why you keep arguing since it doesn't seem like you understand the circumstances of trades, don't have the facts straight about the details, or have the faculty to even analyze a trade and consider its lopsidedness.

Say YOU, but again the Grizz got cap relief, a very nice young Center prospect, picks, and a nice young guard prospect as well as cash. AGAIN you might disagree but then again your not a NBA G.M your just a pissed of Celtic fan that sees the Lakers getting Pau and you guys had to trade a lot to obtain K.G.

Like I said just admit it and get it over with, you already proved why your so butt hurt about this trade. Your pissed cause the Lakers got the upper edge by getting Pau and now you want to sit here and justify your personal reasons.

When it is the most lopsided trade in recent NBA history, has swung the balance of power and created a potential dynasty