NBA extends deadline for contract extensions to Monday

[GuyClinch]

Well we don't know if Ainge's new offer is north of 10million. The problem (and several posters have alluded to this) is if you give Rondo 11+ you simply don't have budget for scorers anymore. You can't resign Ray or a Ray replacement.

The C's now are built with THREE scorers - KG, Paul and Ray - each commanding near max. This makes them hard to guard on the court (and is what makes the C's dominant). So if you give Rondo - Ray's slot then bam your down one scorer.

I don't know that this is a particulary good idea. Yes Ray is slipping but his near max slot of salary could be used on a new top tier scorer SG. Rondo is an excellent player so you would like to keep him but I just don't know if it makes a whole lot of sense if you look at the team picture.

I think the C's would like to get Wade to replace Ray Allen. Thus your new big 3 is Wade, PP and KG.. with whoever you can get at PG. That's my ideal scenario. PP has improved his shot and now is a respectable catch and shoot player. So he can play a bit more off the ball in his later career..and let Wade do his one on one thing.

I am kinda hoping Rondo's agent turns this whole situation to one of those blessings in disguise. You know how like we landed KG because of a bad lottery situation. Maybe we will land Wade because of Duffy's demands.

Pete

[ryaningf]

Well we don't know if Ainge's new offer is north of 10million. The problem (and several posters have alluded to this) is if you give Rondo 11+ you simply don't have budget for scorers anymore. You can't resign Ray or a Ray replacement.

The C's now are built with THREE scorers - KG, Paul and Ray - each commanding near max. This makes them hard to guard on the court (and is what makes the C's dominant). So if you give Rondo - Ray's slot then bam your down one scorer.

Unless Ray 'settles' for only 10 million, then you're right back to where we are right now. Do you really think he can get more? If I had to guess, he'll get less. Whatever the case, the extent of Rondo's raise will be near or equal to the amount Ray's salary goes down.

I don't know that this is a particulary good idea. Yes Ray is slipping but his near max slot of salary could be used on a new top tier scorer SG. Rondo is an excellent player so you would like to keep him but I just don't know if it makes a whole lot of sense if you look at the team picture.

I think the C's would like to get Wade to replace Ray Allen. Thus your new big 3 is Wade, PP and KG.. with whoever you can get at PG. That's my ideal scenario. PP has improved his shot and now is a respectable catch and shoot player. So he can play a bit more off the ball in his later career..and let Wade do his one on one thing.

I am kinda hoping Rondo's agent turns this whole situation to one of those blessings in disguise. You know how like we landed KG because of a bad lottery situation. Maybe we will land Wade because of Duffy's demands.

Pete

I wouldn't say no to Wade, but it's a long shot and would require a sign-and-trade involving a resigned Ray Allen--would Ray be willing to go w/Rondo to Miami where they'll most likely be a non-championship team all so the Cs can get Wade? I don't think so. Without Ray, there's no way to get Wade using Rondo because of the BYC rules, unless you want to include KG/Paul, which you don't, or unless you want to package 'Sheed, Perk, and Baby (I didn't check these #s at all) with Rondo and even then it might not work.

My ideal is to let Rondo become the top-5 talent ON THE CELTICS, while having him secured for the next 5 years with a non-max contract.

[GuyClinch]

I wouldn't say no to Wade, but it's a long shot and would require a sign-and-trade involving a resigned Ray Allen--would Ray be willing to go w/Rondo to Miami where they'll most likely be a non-championship team all so the Cs can get Wade? I don't think so.

Yes. Ray Allen is a true pro - and consequence of that is that he isn't going to "hold out" if sent to sunny Miami. You have to finish up your career somewhere. Miami is a good a place as any. Many players prefer it to Boston.

Wade is the best case. Another option would be some kind of Joe Johnson deal. Point is the C's need to go with what actually works in the NBA. You need scorers. I do agree you can have too many scorers if they all need the ball and don't contribute anything else. But guys with good defensive skills and who are good passers - that also score; well that's how the C's won their championship.

It's abundantly clear to most rational observers that this team was not built around Rondo. Heck in "crunch" moments we have Pierce handle the ball. Rondo is very good player but not worth giving up a scorer too.

I don't think two over their prime scorers (and pretty solid defenders in Pierce and Garnett) and Rondo. I do think Wade, Pierce and Garnett get it done.

[sully00]

I think that things are like this at this point Ainge offered 9 when Duffy expected 8 so he asked for 12-13 hoping to get 10 because he knows come Sat. Rondo is taking that 9. Ainge didn't counter so Duffy lays out the bluff and the bluster trying to get his client 10. You don't do what he did if you really want to test the market and you certainly don't change your tune 24 hrs later.

It is one thing if he knows 13 is out there but if it isn't and he is just playing the market he could screw his client who isn't in a position to put up huge numbers and next year maybe 9 and 10 aren't even available. Ben Gordon sat on the same damn offer for 3 years.

If he gets 50 that is basically Tony Parker money.

[ryaningf]

I wouldn't say no to Wade, but it's a long shot and would require a sign-and-trade involving a resigned Ray Allen--would Ray be willing to go w/Rondo to Miami where they'll most likely be a non-championship team all so the Cs can get Wade? I don't think so.

Yes. Ray Allen is a true pro - and consequence of that is that he isn't going to "hold out" if sent to sunny Miami. You have to finish up your career somewhere. Miami is a good a place as any. Many players prefer it to Boston.

Yes, Miami is great. But you have to think about it from Ray's perspective--he's a NE guy. That's where he played in college, and he has a ton of contacts up here. He's also very involved in the community and childhood diabetes (Boston has some of the best hospitals in the world). Just like Grant Hill deciding to stay in Phoenix because he didn't want to uproot the family, I think Ray will make sacrifices to stay. I mean, the guy's already made his money--he wants championships. Miami is good for the weather and the ass-chasing, but not so great on the championship front. If I were Ray, I'd tell the Cs I'd rather pick where I play then get more money to go to Miami. But who knows--he is professional as you say.

Wade is the best case. Another option would be some kind of Joe Johnson deal. Point is the C's need to go with what actually works in the NBA. You need scorers. I do agree you can have too many scorers if they all need the ball and don't contribute anything else. But guys with good defensive skills and who are good passers - that also score; well that's how the C's won their championship.

Yeah, Joe Johnson is another good one. I wouldn't have any problem with him either, if it came down to that.

It's abundantly clear to most rational observers that this team was not built around Rondo. Heck in "crunch" moments we have Pierce handle the ball. Rondo is very good player but not worth giving up a scorer too.

Not really--what's clear is that you make certain assumptions about the way you think the game is trending (away from pure points and towards shooting guards who can dribble), while discounting the actual makeup of this team.

Now, if the Big 3 were 5 years younger, then sure, Rondo isn't that important--those guys can do the heavy lifting. But AS IT IS, they can't do the heavy lifting and they need a younger player setting the table for them. I'd hate to see Ray/Paul/KG/'Sheed having to create their offense on a consistent basis anymore--it wouldn't be pretty and it would expose us against athletic teams. Rondo makes it so easy for them now--he does the heavy lifting, both on offense and defense. He is the ENGINE that makes this whole thing GO.

Sure, Paul is the CLOSER. He can still perform consistently in that role because Rondo is creating for the other 3 and a half quarters, allowing Paul to COAST at times. He can COAST because Rondo is making us GO.

It's also pretty clear that the team is trending more and more towards a Rondo-centric offensive scheme and if Doc Rivers wasn't the coach we might actually be there by now. Last night, we KILLED the Cavs down the stretch with KG and Paul running a pick and roll against Shaq, allowing Paul to hit the daggers that sealed the win. That's one way to do it--another way would have been to use Rondo and KG in that same pick and roll with Shaq, and exposing his defensive deficiencies and allowing either Rondo to get to the rim, or allowing him to breakdown the defense and dish to Ray/Paul/'Sheed.

I don't think two over their prime scorers (and pretty solid defenders in Pierce and Garnett) and Rondo. I do think Wade, Pierce and Garnett get it done.

We'll see I guess. You're assuming that Ray can't be resigned to a cap-friendly deal this summer, or that we can't replace Ray's spot with somebody else just as good. Rondo + Ray's replacement is probably comparable to Wade, especially considering Rondo's continued development.

[ryaningf]

I think that things are like this at this point Ainge offered 9 when Duffy expected 8 so he asked for 12-13 hoping to get 10 because he knows come Sat. Rondo is taking that 9. Ainge didn't counter so Duffy lays out the bluff and the bluster trying to get his client 10. You don't do what he did if you really want to test the market and you certainly don't change your tune 24 hrs later.

It is one thing if he knows 13 is out there but if it isn't and he is just playing the market he could screw his client who isn't in a position to put up huge numbers and next year maybe 9 and 10 aren't even available. Ben Gordon sat on the same damn offer for 3 years.

If he gets 50 that is basically Tony Parker money.

I think it's pretty clear Danny upped his offer in some way, probably to something approaching 10 million per year.

If he gets that, it's still 1 million less per year than Parker, which is fair since I'd bet that even Rondo's agent wouldn't argue that he's better than Parker...YET.

These negotiations seem to be trending in a favorable direction. I know some people want to keep Rondo unsigned this season to squeeze the best season out of him and to possibly deal him and Ray for Wade if possible. To me, our championship hopes THIS SEASON are best kept by resigning Rondo before Oct. 31st. I don't want to see this team blown up midseason THIS YEAR just to get Wade.

Wade is a great player, but I think you play with fire by making any major midseason trades...you could possibly piss away 2010 with such a trade, and then in 2011 or 2012, who knows what happens with injuries and the like? With the age of KG/Paul I think it's foolish to possibly piss away this year, even for Wade. If that means we're a .500 team in 2013 being led by Rondo and Perk, then so be it (and I personally don't think that'll be the case).

[Gant]

Weei just had a fascinating interview with Ainge, particularly the part about Rondo. It will probably be on their website sometime and it's worth listening to.

A few things I remember-

*The Rondo signing deadline is not critical, though the two sides are trying to work out a deal. Without admitting so Danny SEEMED to say, yes the Celtics have raised their offer. He also SEEMED to say the numbers in the press are not accurate, though I'm reading into this as Danny wisely declined to say anything specific.

*Lots of teams out there love Rondo and lots of teams have money next summer. The question is whether it's best for both Rondo and the team to make a deal now or later. There are a lot of unknowns with the economy and which free agent will go where, and all that impacts Rondo.

*Rondo wants to stay.

*It was clear the team wants to sign him.

*Ainge said Rondo is a difficult player to assess because of his unique skillset. One thing Danny said that was really interesting as an example of this, was that during the Finals two seasons ago there were times it was hard to put Rondo on the floor, and other times that he was the best player on a court even among 4 hall of famers.

*Ainge didn't seem worried about Baby and thought he'd be back in a while with fresh legs.

[Celts17Pride]

*Ainge didn't seem worried about Baby and thought he'd be back in a while with fresh legs.

The worry about Baby is what Tommy Heinsohn said last night that he puts weight back on while being inactive. I hope he doesn't, it would be a shame.

[Gant]

*Ainge didn't seem worried about Baby and thought he'd be back in a while with fresh legs.

The worry about Baby is what Tommy Heinsohn said last night that he puts weight back on while being inactive. I hope he doesn't, it would be a shame.

Danny wasn't worried about that. Davis didn't hurt his legs. He can work out. He just can't shoot.

[sully00]

ryaningf

My point about Parker is this that Parker signed a 6 year extension for 66 mil but the 6th year is worth almost 14 mil the first 5 years are worth 52 mil. Rondo can only sign a 5 year extension he can get that 14 mil season on his next deal. I don't begrudge the man his money but I want it done in a way that helps the team. Any contract he gets in FA is going to be built the same way he isn't going to get a flat rate deal it is going to start low and escalate.

I think there is value in having Rondo as a trade asset that disappear if he is signed to an extension he becomes very difficult to trade. At the same time if the price is right and they intend to keep him I just assume extend him because I think it will be a distraction to him.

I disagree with the notion that Rondo isn't a great fit for this team I think he is perfect, he does everything but score what else could you ask for on a team loaded with All Stars. But I do worry about what happens after I have concerns with what this team becomes when Rondo is making 13-14 mil and Perk is making 8-9 mil and we need to find someone to put the ball in the basket. I would be horrified if we are talking about Rondo making 17-18 mil.

[GuyClinch]

Now, if the Big 3 were 5 years younger, then sure, Rondo isn't that important--those guys can do the heavy lifting. But AS IT IS, they can't do the heavy lifting and they need a younger player setting the table for them. I'd hate to see Ray/Paul/KG/'Sheed having to create their offense on a consistent basis anymore--it wouldn't be pretty and it would expose us against athletic teams. Rondo makes it so easy for them now--he does the heavy lifting, both on offense and defense. He is the ENGINE that makes this whole thing GO.

I don't agree. I think your mindset about a PG 'creating' offense is out of touch to some extent. If you look at the NBA you see a very clear trend IMHO. The championship teams are built around ..

A scoring ball handling guard (point or off-guard) + a scoring big (usually a PF) and often a scoring SF.


For example the Lakers are trying to win with:

Kobe + Gasol + Artest

The Spurs are trying to win with:

Parker + Duncan + Jefferson

The Pistson won with:

Billups + Sheed + Rip.

The C's won with:

Allen + KG + Pierce

Orlando is going with

VC + Howard + Lewis

Obviously this is an oversimplification and you need a good bench and decent players at the other postions. But I think you have to look at the core salary structure of a team. I don't think you can win with a non-scoring PG commanding one of your "big 3" salary slots.

This is precisely the problem Kidd ran into. Rather then looking at your "PG" as a guy who just creates shots for others. I look at him as lead guard who brings up the ball against pressure and makes the initial pass to start the play. But functions a complete player and works within the offense sets to create offense just like the other players - with the entire team cutting, setting screens and picks.

Pete

[campybatman]

This is encouraging... But I still feel a tad pessimistic...

Rajon Rondo and the Boston Celtics have a little bit more time to work toward a contract extension.

The league has pushed the deadline for contract extensions for all players from the 2006 draft class from Saturday to Monday, league spokesman Tim Frank confirmed Thursday night.

NBA front-office sources told ESPN.com that all 30 teams were notified via league memorandum earlier this week that the league's annual Oct. 31 deadline for players in the fourth year of their rookie-scale contracts, according to the collective-bargaining agreement, is moved to the next available business day if the deadline falls on a Saturday, Sunday or federal holiday.

Only four first-round picks from 2006 have received extensions so far: No. 1 overall pick Andrea Bargnani (Toronto), No. 2 LaMarcus Aldridge (Portland), No. 6 Brandon Roy (Portland) and No. 13 Thabo Sefolosha (Oklahoma City).

Players who don't receive extensions by Monday will join the vaunted 2010 free-agent class, but as restricted free agents.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/stor ... AHeadlines

[GuyClinch]

I don't find it encouraging. It's like when they push some nasty essay back when your in college. You want to get it done sooner or later and not let it drag out. This means Ainge's weekend gets ruined 'negotating'

Pete

[campybatman]

What a mediocre first round that was in the 2006 draft.

Other top 10 drafted players from 2006 like Lakers forward Adam Morrison (third overall), Celtics forward Shelden Williams (fifth) and Raptors center Patrick O'Bryant (ninth) won't be getting new deals. Center Saer Sene, the 10th overall pick taken by Seattle, is out of the NBA and playing professionally in France.

Though several teams have exceeded the luxury tax this season, many more teams are looking to cut costs wherever they can. Making future commitments to players considered good, but not great, is not a realistic business decision for most teams.

"I don't know if the reality of the economy has sunk in with the agents," said one front office executive. "One is the economy; two is we don't know what's going to be in the next CBA (collective bargaining agreement)."

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/10/29/opti ... extension/

[sully00]

bonsa

I like that you updated the title instead of another thread but wished you had put that in the title. I thought we already had another 10 page thread on the subject.

I can't imagine it is going to make a big difference either way. It sounds like we are in the million dollar a year neighborhood, so if Rondo wants the security of getting the deal done he will make it if he really wants his money then they will probably wait till next season. That way they can give Rondo the 6th year at 14 mil and increase the money that way not mess with the salary structure of the current team and take on more of a tax hit.

Every dollar they have to go up in the front end of the deal is two out of the team's pocket or less they can give Ray or anyone else. They are going to want to keep Rondo as close to that 7 mil dollars in year one as they can.

[GuyClinch]

Well Rondo is starting to erase the memories of that awful Orlando series. So it won't be so bad when he gets signed to 10 mill per I guess. <g> You got to think its absolutely going to happen now with the deadline pushed back just for us.

[campybatman]

I reckon either way Boston holds the cards as Rondo simply becomes a restricted free agent next off-season. So they can match any offer by another team. But if their off is more, and you match it. Why didn't you sign him to that now?

One way one can view this is you keep Rondo motivated throughout the regular season and playoffs. Still, future drama and media speculation can be avoided if a new deal can be agreed upon on Sunday.

Although the past few days have been mostly quiet on the contract front for Boston Celtics guard Rajon Rondo, both sides are expected to connect Sunday for one last attempt to come together on a new deal before Monday's deadline for contract extensions for members of the 2006 draft class, according to sources close to the process.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4612132

[chakdaddy]

This is encouraging... But I still feel a tad pessimistic...

Rajon Rondo and the Boston Celtics have a little bit more time to work toward a contract extension.

The league has pushed the deadline for contract extensions for all players from the 2006 draft class from Saturday to Monday, league spokesman Tim Frank confirmed Thursday night.

NBA front-office sources told ESPN.com that all 30 teams were notified via league memorandum earlier this week that the league's annual Oct. 31 deadline for players in the fourth year of their rookie-scale contracts, according to the collective-bargaining agreement, is moved to the next available business day if the deadline falls on a Saturday, Sunday or federal holiday.

Ha, the NBA didn't extend anything, they just sent a reminder to everyone that the deadline was always Monday according to the rules!!!

I wonder if the media is spinning it as a last minute extension to hide the fact that they've been spouting an Oct. 31 deadline all this time, when it was never the case since the deadline can't fall on a weekend. Ha! Deceptive headline. Should be ''Deadline for contract extensions actually is Monday." It was never changed or extended.