Tony freaking Allen...

[tlee324]

With me, if you haven't figured it out by now, its all about production and contributing that production to a team that is winning games. If we're fans of the team, I can't see why it's so bad to just say "good job" when he's actually doing that.

[MyInsatiableOne]

^^^ People have their favorites. I liked the Sox but I never liked Jose Offerman. I don't agree fans have to encourage every player who does "well." First off some people will never agree on what playing well means and secondly people are going to have their biases. I wouldn't expect guys to rip on EVERY player but I get why people don't like Tony Allen. He plays a pretty aggressive (some would say stupid) style of ball and isn't exactly clean off the court.

Agreed...I love everyone on this team EXCEPT TA, Scal, and to a large (no pun intended) extent, BBD. But I am behind everyone else 100%.

[EJay33]

enlighten me how he has always been solid by the numbers. I'm looking at his numbers right now and he has more turnovers than assists over the past 3 seasons.

So? Is TA our PG? We boiling down performance to one metric nowadays - that's unrelated to his position?

TA is a career .472 shooter. He is a career .750 free throw shooter. He averages 2.0 steals for 36 minutes. He has a career average of 7.2 PPG and a per 36 average of 14 ppg. He has a true shot percentage of .550.

But wait there is more.. His defense has been good..
His PER against this year at SG is 11.3, last year it was 12.7.Year before that it was 11.2 Those are among league leading numbers at his position.

I could go on.. but suffice to say he is a solid NBA player - and always has been.

Solid response, probably my favorite reply I've ever seen from you. However, I think even you know that those TA numbers are cherry picked because he isn't relied on whatsoever by this team. He has been playing garbage time for the past three seasons. Your stats like PER against do not factor in quality of opponent or situation and the fact is that by the time TA is playing every else has stopped trying, except for TA who is desperately trying to crack the rotation.

I can remember one singular time when the Celtics actually relied on Tony Allen since they have been good (post KG/Ray trades) and that's it, and it ended poorly. The Celtics started the season 20-2 and the Detroit Pistons were in town for a nationally televised home game. This is back when Detroit was still considered a legitimate contender and this game was a huge barometer for where our new squad was at. With the game tied, for whatever reason Coc decided to put Tony Allen in to defend Chauncey Billups on the final possession. Billups pump-faked - he wouldn't even have had time to get a shot up and the game wouldn't gone into OT, except Tony Allen inexplicably drilled him 18 feet from the basket. Are you kidding me? I think I learned not to foul a jump shooter on the final play at camp when I was 8 years old, you HAVE you force that guy to make that shot. Break out all the PER and net PER and mediocre per-36 minutes stats you want. Tony Allen is a headcase and a woefully low basketball IQ Player who will never be able to duplicate the contributions of a guy like James Posey from the championship season. His negative A:T ratio is a perfect illustration of what he brings to the table. And to answer your question, yes, Doc did try him at PG in the 2007 season which seemed like a terrible decision at the time and remains a terrible decision in retrospect.

I can not see him meaningfully contributing to a winning basketball team and this is why Danny keeps bringing in guys like Posey and Daniels, because TA can't do it. His one plus can be his steals and energy but in his head he's half trying to help the team and half trying to put up scoring numbers to get a better contract. You don't want selfish guys when you're trying to win a championship as the underdog, which is what Boston is doing right now. All I have to say is that I hope 'Quis gets back sooner rather than later.

[EJay33]

Link to summary: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gam ... NHeadlines

[Slartibartfast]

enlighten me how he has always been solid by the numbers. I'm looking at his numbers right now and he has more turnovers than assists over the past 3 seasons.

So? Is TA our PG? We boiling down performance to one metric nowadays - that's unrelated to his position?

TA is a career .472 shooter. He is a career .750 free throw shooter. He averages 2.0 steals for 36 minutes. He has a career average of 7.2 PPG and a per 36 average of 14 ppg. He has a true shot percentage of .550.

But wait there is more.. His defense has been good..
His PER against this year at SG is 11.3, last year it was 12.7.Year before that it was 11.2 Those are among league leading numbers at his position.

I could go on.. but suffice to say he is a solid NBA player - and always has been.

Solid response, probably my favorite reply I've ever seen from you. However, I think even you know that those TA numbers are cherry picked because he isn't relied on whatsoever by this team. He has been playing garbage time for the past three seasons. Your stats like PER against do not factor in quality of opponent or situation and the fact is that by the time TA is playing every else has stopped trying, except for TA who is desperately trying to crack the rotation.

I can remember one singular time when the Celtics actually relied on Tony Allen since they have been good (post KG/Ray trades) and that's it, and it ended poorly. The Celtics started the season 20-2 and the Detroit Pistons were in town for a nationally televised home game. This is back when Detroit was still considered a legitimate contender and this game was a huge barometer for where our new squad was at. With the game tied, for whatever reason Coc decided to put Tony Allen in to defend Chauncey Billups on the final possession. Billups pump-faked - he wouldn't even have had time to get a shot up and the game wouldn't gone into OT, except Tony Allen inexplicably drilled him 18 feet from the basket. Are you kidding me? I think I learned not to foul a jump shooter on the final play at camp when I was 8 years old, you HAVE you force that guy to make that shot. Break out all the PER and net PER and mediocre per-36 minutes stats you want. Tony Allen is a headcase and a woefully low basketball IQ Player who will never be able to duplicate the contributions of a guy like James Posey from the championship season. His negative A:T ratio is a perfect illustration of what he brings to the table. And to answer your question, yes, Doc did try him at PG in the 2007 season which seemed like a terrible decision at the time and remains a terrible decision in retrospect.

I can not see him meaningfully contributing to a winning basketball team and this is why Danny keeps bringing in guys like Posey and Daniels, because TA can't do it. His one plus can be his steals and energy but in his head he's half trying to help the team and half trying to put up scoring numbers to get a better contract. You don't want selfish guys when you're trying to win a championship as the underdog, which is what Boston is doing right now. All I have to say is that I hope 'Quis gets back sooner rather than later.

At bold: while TA's high risk style is certainly not tailored for playoff basketball or crunch-time offensive execution, you are waaaaay overstating your case in saying that TA has been playing garbage time for the past 3 seasons. You don't average 20 minutes per in garbage time.

Tony is producing more than Daniels was thus far. He's outscoring (with better percentages) him, drawing more fouls, grabbing more boards, and picking more pockets than Marquis, in exchange for a few more turnovers and a few less assists.

It will be interesting to see how he fares in a starting role with Pierce out.

[SichtingLives]

enlighten me how he has always been solid by the numbers. I'm looking at his numbers right now and he has more turnovers than assists over the past 3 seasons.

So? Is TA our PG? We boiling down performance to one metric nowadays - that's unrelated to his position?

TA is a career .472 shooter. He is a career .750 free throw shooter. He averages 2.0 steals for 36 minutes. He has a career average of 7.2 PPG and a per 36 average of 14 ppg. He has a true shot percentage of .550.

But wait there is more.. His defense has been good..
His PER against this year at SG is 11.3, last year it was 12.7.Year before that it was 11.2 Those are among league leading numbers at his position.

I could go on.. but suffice to say he is a solid NBA player - and always has been.

Solid response, probably my favorite reply I've ever seen from you. However, I think even you know that those TA numbers are cherry picked because he isn't relied on whatsoever by this team. He has been playing garbage time for the past three seasons.

What Celtics games have you been watching? When garbage time starts referring to the first, second and third quarters of close games, you might not be completely wrong. Not today though.

Also, try not to use the cherry picking line and then illustrate the epitome of the word in your rebuttal, ffs. The Detroit game? Really?? You really dug deep into the vault for that one, my grandmother remembers that game and she's got alzheimers. What I'm really interested in are all the other pump fakes he bit on in six years that put us in a position to lose a game. That's cherry picking bull**** at it's finest.

It's fine to have an opinion. It's fine to ignore everything a player does well and focus on his weaknesses. Everyone has players they just don't like and never will. Just check the sloppy rhetoric at the door first. Everyone can see TA's flaws quite clearly. Insinuating he hasn't been able to crack the rotation for 3 years just paints you as wildly uninformed.