Is KG being selfish?

[PP 4 Three]

"He completely changed the culture of this team BY HIMSELF!!!"

What do you mean by that?

It means he's a KG homer. To credit one man for turning a horrible team to a 66 win team is a joke. Tom Thibideau had just as much, if not more of an impact on turning this team to an elite defensive team. Paul Pierce also deserves the same credit KG is getting, he showed that he can lead a team with other elite players, to the promise land. KG was a huge factor in turning this team around, but definitely not the only one.

[Ben-N1ce]

"He completely changed the culture of this team BY HIMSELF!!!"

What do you mean by that?

Ask Paul Pierce. He's the one who said it.

[drza]

"He completely changed the culture of this team BY HIMSELF!!!"

What do you mean by that?

Ask Paul Pierce. He's the one who said it.

How dare you insinuate that the Captain is a KG homer?!?!

[DarkAzcura]

"Are you serious? He completely changed the culture of this team BY HIMSELF!!!! And its painfully apparent that its true b/c look at how pathetic the team is without him. 4-5 without him so far this year. I mean, good freakin God. Some Celtics fans give others a bad rep, and some Celtics fans are soetimes freakin (Please Use More Appropriate Word)."


This post right here is one of the reasons I haven't warmed up to him.

Like I said..KG does no wrong. KG is crazy and yes he gets his teammates amped up, but this Celtics team has ALWAYS played hard since Doc got here. Doc changed the culture in 2004-2005, not KG in 2007-2008.

Oh, and last year we played at the same rate with and without KG..it's not terrible and pathetic without KG (point differential wasn't as good). They just aren't as likely to go out there playing 110% (which is what we need). I like KG and know what he realistically actually brings to this team, but I don't like him that much because of the fans that overrate the HELL out of his impact. His impact is great but that quote is almost exactly the reason I haven't warmed up to him.

[drza]

Oh, and last year we played at the same rate with and without KG..it's not terrible and pathetic without KG (point differential wasn't as good). They just aren't as likely to go out there playing 110% (which is what we need). I like KG and know what he realistically actually brings to this team, but I don't like him that much because of the fans that overrate the HELL out of his impact. His impact is great but that quote is almost exactly the reason I haven't warmed up to him.

Some believe in point differential (and other "advanced" stats), others don't. Regardless, there is a pretty solid body of evidence that point differential is at least as good of an indicator about team caliber as win-loss record. Before the playoffs even began last season John Hollinger predicted that the Celtics would have an extremely close series with the Bulls and had less than a 50/50 shot of beating the Magic even though the Cs had home court advantage, because of the point margins with and without Garnett. In this instance he was spot-on on both counts.

In 2007-08, when Kevin Garnett played we won more than 80% of our games with a point margin of +10.5.

In 2008-09, before Garnett's knee injury we won more than 80% of our games with a point margin of +9.7. After he went down the team still fought valiantly and won about 2/3 of their games, but with a point margin of +3.8.

This season, before KG went down with that first "bruised thigh" we were winning more than 80% of our games with a point margin of +9.5.

For any stat to be effective, you have to have a certain sample size. In 2008 and thus far in 2010, the Cs didn't have enough of a sample size without Garnett to truly evaluate them. They did in 2009, when his injury came with more than a third of the season left, and the point margin and playoff results both suggested the same thing: without Garnett, the Celtics would still be a solid team, somewhere between the Bulls and the Magic. Probably about 50 wins, legitimate playoff team. But no longer contenders. With that in mind, let's look at the trends from 2008 and 2010:

2008: Celtics were undefeated against putrid teams, smashing lottery-bound squads by 12.4 points/game. They were about a .500 team against solid, playoff-bound teams.

2010: Celtics are undefeated against putrid teams, smashing lottery-bound squads by 16.5 points/game. They are close to a .500 team against solid, playoff contending teams.

One big difference between 2008 and 2010? In 2008 the Cs played seven putrid teams and four playoff contenders without KG, but in 2010 they have played two putrid teams and eight playoff contenders. Oh yeah, and over that same time period Paul Pierce (you may have heard of him) also missed some games injured.

The point? Love him or hate him, when KG plays this team is a juggernaut. We win more than 80% of our games with a point margin of around 10, which is up there with the best teams in history. Regardless of who gets "credit" or is a "True Celtic" or whatever else is an issue in the odd etiquette with which some Celtic fans treat Garnett, that much is fact.

[DarkAzcura]

Theeeeere we go. I 100% agree with that post.

I still think the guy is being a ***** not being on the bench, but whatever. I recognize in this thread that we need him to win a championship, but I hate hate hate posts that say "he did THIS ALL BY HIMSELF", blah blah. I want to like him, but it is hard for me with that crap (him not being on the bench really makes me angry). Why I don't like Kobe, Lebron, etc, are for those same reasons..I'm not going to change the way I think just cause he plays for the team I love. I wish I could ignore other people's ideas and perceptions, but it's difficult. I'll just say I appreciate what he has done for the Celtics.

I think it's definitely possible that players on the team want KG on the bench, but they don't want to speak up for fear of screwing up chemistry. Wouldn't surprise me at all. When games actually started to matter, you saw Ray Allen speak up and call for KG to stay on the bench to support the team. It seems like the players don't want to waste their breath to force KG on the bench unless the games truly matter.

I know when I saw an injured player for my high school go between the stands and the locker room a couple years ago, it drove me absolutely nuts. Others thought it was very dumb too. If you are on the team stay on the bench.

[GuyClinch]

C's need to man up and play better without KG. Its not his responsiblity to motivate them. He is payed to play basketball and represent the Celtics and he does both things pretty well. Don't forget these are grown men they don't need cheerleaders (though in fact they have some and some pretty nice ones at that).. Heck the C's have dancers cheerleaders and little mascot stunt guys.