Is UBUNTU gone?

[Kefa461]

The statement is probably about someone or people who were on the team in 08.....so I doubt if it is Sheed. It also is probably about someone trying to get into Rondo's head or was getting into Rondo's head and can't anymore because Rondo has now bought into Doc's side now.

[BadWolf]

Not for nothing, but I don't think you have to like each other to win a championship. I'm pretty sure Pau/Kobe detest each other.

But, I wonder if this is a rift between young/old again....I can't figure out what he is referring to.

I'm pretty sure everyone on the Lakers NOT named Kobe hates Kobe...but they won anyway

My money is on Big BABY...

cmon, you know Sasha is in love

[mwhis21]

Celts17Pride and I have gone back and forth for a few days now about Ray Allen. Now, I don't think he is hypocritical. In fact, I think I've even seen him soften his stance on Ray Allen as it comes to trading him especially for someone that will help us in the future as well as in the present.

I don't mind when people change course as time goes on, but I hate when people get mad at other posters for posting a trade idea, or a post that isn't always positive about the Celtics. I didn't know this was a positive posts only board and that if you say anything negative about the Celtics your not a fan. Nobody says you have to read or respond to these posts so why let it bother you. Its funny how the Celtics losing doesn't bother one fan, but a person posting a trade idea does.

Now that to me is hypocritical.

[MyInsatiableOne]

Not for nothing, but I don't think you have to like each other to win a championship. I'm pretty sure Pau/Kobe detest each other.

But, I wonder if this is a rift between young/old again....I can't figure out what he is referring to.

I'm pretty sure everyone on the Lakers NOT named Kobe hates Kobe...but they won anyway

My money is on Big BABY...

cmon, you know Sasha is in love

Yeah right. Has any superstar been as universally loathed by his team and coach, who at the same time know their success is directly tied to him, as Kobe?

[Celts17Pride]

Celts17Pride and I have gone back and forth for a few days now about Ray Allen. Now, I don't think he is hypocritical. In fact, I think I've even seen him soften his stance on Ray Allen as it comes to trading him especially for someone that will help us in the future as well as in the present.

I don't mind when people change course as time goes on, but I hate when people get mad at other posters for posting a trade idea, or a post that isn't always positive about the Celtics. I didn't know this was a positive posts only board and that if you say anything negative about the Celtics your not a fan. Nobody says you have to read or respond to these posts so why let it bother you. Its funny how the Celtics losing doesn't bother one fan, but a person posting a trade idea does.

Now that to me is hypocritical.

I am against trading Ray Allen for one reason and one reason only, I believe it will hurt the Celtics chances of winning the title. If there is a Ray Allen trade that will make the Celtics better and increase their chances of winning the title then I'm all for it.

As far as the other poster, to come out and say Ray Allen is a locker room cancer when there are absolutely no reports anywhere to support such a statement is absurd. Talk about people making stuff up to push their own agendas.

[return2glory]

Is Ubuntu gone? That's a good question. The answer IMO is yes. Ubuntu left when James Posey left. Posey was so huge for this team spiritualy. Before every game, he would stand in the middle of the court on the baseline and hug the starters. If anyone understands positive energy would notice how important Posey was.

[mwhis21]

I think I missed the part where someone said Ray was a cancer? In this case tell me what Ray Allen brings to the team that can't be replaced?

I am just curious you thoughts on his play this year.

[MyInsatiableOne]

^he's slumping, no doubt, but teams still have to respect him on the perimeter. And I'll say what I've said for a year, who is the mystery player other teams are going to offer in return for Ray that would make the trade worth it? I read somewhere today (I think the Globe?) that we should get a player who would crack our 8-man rotation in return for Ray...really? Replace a future HOFer with a guy who can play ahead of BBD and Bill Walker and Lester Hudson? And the guy said it'd be a win-win for us...

[SichtingLives]

I think I missed the part where someone said Ray was a cancer? In this case tell me what Ray Allen brings to the team that can't be replaced?

I am just curious you thoughts on his play this year.

Nobody said it. It's a diversionary tactic, much like all the other ones people have been using this year to deny that anything could ever be wrong with Ray Allen.

^he's slumping, no doubt, but teams still have to respect him on the perimeter. And I'll say what I've said for a year, who is the mystery player other teams are going to offer in return for Ray that would make the trade worth it? I read somewhere today (I think the Globe?) that we should get a player who would crack our 8-man rotation in return for Ray...really? Replace a future HOFer with a guy who can play ahead of BBD and Bill Walker and Lester Hudson? And the guy said it'd be a win-win for us...

This is exactly what I'm talking about. "future HOF'er" implying he's not a shell of the player that made him a future HOF'er. If the Ray Allen we have now played this way the previous 13 years of his career, he wouldn't get a sniff at the HOF so let's chill with that rhetoric.

[MyInsatiableOne]

^I see where you're coming from, but there is NO ONE out there teams are offering who would be worth trading Ray...a lot of people on here want him traded just for the sake of trading him...

[SichtingLives]

^I see where you're coming from, but there is NO ONE out there teams are offering who would be worth trading Ray...a lot of people on here want him traded just for the sake of trading him...

I want him traded for the sake of making this team better and younger, but I do agree on that front that there really aren't a whole lot of options that do that. The players we really want are probably going to to fetch their teams more than we can offer with or without Ray.

Also when you consider how many crappy contracts we'd have to take on for future seasons for players who might not even be much better than Ray all around, it may be the most reasonable thing to just let his contract expire.

I would honestly be happiest if the dude just started hitting some open shots again.

[MyInsatiableOne]

^I have faith he'll bust out of his slump...

And since he's willing to take a hometown discount after this year, I see no harm in keeping him for this year's run, resigning him on the cheap next year, and using the extra money to bring in more guys...

[mwhis21]

How do we know whats available and what's not? That is why I tired hammering home the point that if Ainge wasn't at least kicking some tires he would not be doing his job and that the only reason Ray Allen is here after the deadline is because Danny didn't get the deal he wanted. There are too many teams in financial trouble, and trying to get space for this summer to not look around.

Simple as that. Just a GM doing his due diligence. The difference between HOF Ray and 2009 Ray is consistency. He would consistently put up those HOF numbers and percentages. This year, although the percentages are the same, he has been very streaky in getting to that point.

[MyInsatiableOne]

^agree on Ainge exploring options...and kudos to him for not acting rashly...

[Pogue Mahone]

^I have faith he'll bust out of his slump...

And since he's willing to take a hometown discount after this year, I see no harm in keeping him for this year's run, resigning him on the cheap next year, and using the extra money to bring in more guys...

Ok. What if Ray is a $7M player, right now. Assuming we were to re-sign him after this season, do you overpay for the 2nd and 3rd years of the deal? I say not only no but hell no. I would even go so far as to say he is barely an MLE level player, right now. And that has more to do with minutes and opportunity than actual contributions (not necessarily production.)

Of course, if Ray is amicable to coming off the bench and re-signing for $9M/3 years, I would certainly be amendable to that. If not, I move him before the deadline in any deal in which we get youth that provides long-term value. If we don't, we are unlikely to see much of a return in a sign-and-trade so merely allowing him to expire wastes a quite valuable resource.

[Celts17Pride]

^I have faith he'll bust out of his slump...

And since he's willing to take a hometown discount after this year, I see no harm in keeping him for this year's run, resigning him on the cheap next year, and using the extra money to bring in more guys...

Ok. What if Ray is a $7M player, right now. Assuming we were to re-sign him after this season, do you overpay for the 2nd and 3rd years of the deal? I say not only no but hell no. I would even go so far as to say he is barely an MLE level player, right now. And that has more to do with minutes and opportunity than actual contributions (not necessarily production.)

Of course, if Ray is amicable to coming off the bench and re-signing for $9M/3 years, I would certainly be amendable to that. If not, I move him before the deadline in any deal in which we get youth that provides long-term value. If we don't, we are unlikely to see much of a return in a sign-and-trade so merely allowing him to expire wastes a quite valuable resource.

Celtics gave Rasheed roughly $18.0 million for 3 years this off-season. There is no reason why Ray Allen shouldn't get the same next off-season if the Celtics decided to keep him. If Ray Allen wants to stay with the Celtics and is willing to play a lesser role (25-28 mins per game) then he would be a bargain at 3 years and $18.0 million IMO.

Honestly, I think this is what is going to happen given the Celtics salary structure. I guess we will all find out soon enough, possibly in 15 more days.

[chakdaddy]

Getting away from catch phrases...

What's really missing from '07-08, and has been since KG got hurt last year, is defensive effort. The discipline isn't there for 48 minutes anymore.

And what has been there even during the title run is sloppy passing and stupid turnovers, but it's harder to overcome now. We should have won 75 games and lost 1 or 2 playoff games max in '08; today we should be in the fight for the top seed; the same lapses kill us but there's less room for error now.

[tlee324]

I think chakdaddy makes a good point, and one that i agree with. it also coincides with the post on james posey. ubuntu is something that came together on this team from a defensive effort stemmed and fueled by Garnett and Posey. Losing that defensive intensity and defensive focus has hurt this team more than anything, IMO. A lot of talk on this board is about trading ray allen and what the offense can do, but really the defensive side of the ball is the way this team wins a title, and it's not as consistent as it was, or as it needs to be.