TA an NBA starter

[Celts17Pride]

TA could start for rest of the season in Ray Allen's spot and it would probably be a good thing for us: better defense, more rest for Ray, higher uptick in shots for Rondo/Perk/Paul/KG. But Doc's offense is so precious to him and his deference to the veterans so deeply felt that he can't bring himself to alter the starting lineup, nor make the kind of changes to the offense necessary to accomodate TA.

Off the top of my head I could name you 15 teams who could/would/should start TA at 2 or 3. He's been miscast during most his time in Boston, but in the right system under the rigth coach he could give you quality/above average starter's minutes. As always, though, it's about health and confidence with him--always has been.

Tony Allen is a good energy guy off the bench, he is not a starter on the Celtics. He started last game against Miami and he was horrible until the last half of the 4th quarter. Tony Allen is where he should be which is coming off the bench.

You gotta take things in context. First, TA wasn't terrible--I thought he did a solid job in his minutes. He didn't get ANY help from the refs on either sides of the ball. He missed 3 layups and at least 2 of them were because he got fouled but didn't get a whistle. He definitely made Wade work for his buckets.

What was disappointing about his performance was how the team defense got broke down time and time again when TA was defending Wade. Basically, TA would stop Wade's shot attempt, but the team defense would over-help and allow Wade to pass to a teammate for a bucket. It happened like 5 times in the first half. I guess the team wasn't used to playing with a shutdown defender--because on those TA had stopped Wade, only to have his teammates over-react to Wade's penetration attempt. With more time in the starting lineup, this could be corrected.

And, as I and others have hinted at in other posts, more could be done to work TA into the offense. Right now, he's pretty much wasted out there. Personally, I'd find ways to get him closer to the hoop, either with post attempts, or ball cuts to the rim--specifically I'd allow him to crash the offensive boards from time to time (when the spacing allows it and there are other players in position to get back on defense). He's a beast on the offensive boards.

Tony Allen has played well. He is better on the 2nd unit because he is the only one that can post up or attack the rim on the 2nd unit. House, Scal, Wallace, BBD are all perimeter players. Adding Ray Allen (another perimeter player) to that unit is a recipe for disaster.

Celtics don't need nothing but jump shots on the 2nd unit.

[Celtics_85]

The thing is people slam TA for his turnovers, but isn't this team at the top of that list? They were good at turning it over long before TA got his burn. Right now TA brings just as much to this team as Ray does, and if you don't think so you don't see the same games I do.

[Celts17Pride]

People rag on Ray Allen for turning the ball over he averages 2.36 turnovers per 48 minutes. Tony Allen is a turnover machine, he averages 4.07 turnovers per 48 minutes.

Others per 48 minutes.

Pierce - 3.34
Perkins - 4.17
Rondo - 3.95
Garnett - 2.46
Wallace - 1.74
House - 1.44
Shelden - 3.01
Daniels - 2.01
Davis - 3.01
Scalabrine - 1.45

Rondo is excusable IMO because he handles the ball all the time. No excuse for Pierce, TA and Perkins.

[cfan79]

The thing is people slam TA for his turnovers, but isn't this team at the top of that list? They were good at turning it over long before TA got his burn. Right now TA brings just as much to this team as Ray does, and if you don't think so you don't see the same games I do.

I watch every game and see Ray Allen making buckets . I don't think Tony could do that night in and night out. The only time he did that before was a few years ago when Paul was hurt and we lost 19 in a row.

[Celts17Pride]

Right now TA brings just as much to this team as Ray does, and if you don't think so you don't see the same games I do.

Ask all 30 teams if their salaries were equal who would you rather have starting Ray Allen or Tony Allen? I don't think you would get the answer your looking for.

[JSABleedsGreen]

People rag on Ray Allen for turning the ball over he averages 2.36 turnovers per 48 minutes. Tony Allen is a turnover machine, he averages 4.07 turnovers per 48 minutes.

Others per 48 minutes.

Pierce - 3.34
Perkins - 4.17
Rondo - 3.95
Garnett - 2.46
Wallace - 1.74
House - 1.44
Shelden - 3.01
Daniels - 2.01
Davis - 3.01
Scalabrine - 1.45

Rondo is excusable IMO because he handles the ball all the time. No excuse for Pierce, TA and Perkins.

Perkins is that high though because of those stupid offensive calls correct? An offensive foul is considered a turnover right? He gets like 2 a game, sometimes he gets shafted a lot on those calls and sometimes the guads like Ray Allen move too soon and don't wait for Perk to get there, then it's an obvious offensive but not his fault......otherwise if it wasn't for that I think he does a pretty descent job when the ball is in his hands.

[Celts17Pride]

Perkins is that high though because of those stupid offensive calls correct? An offensive foul is considered a turnover right?

Yes

He gets like 2 a game, sometimes he gets shafted a lot on those calls and sometimes the guads like Ray Allen move too soon and don't wait for Perk to get there, then it's an obvious offensive but not his fault.

I agree.

[GuyClinch]

Turnovers per game dont' tell the real story. Pierce is a guy who is trying to do ALOT with the basketball - hence the turnovers. Ray Allen gets set up with mutiple screens. It's much the same story with TA. TA is trying to handle the ball and beat people off the dribble or set up guys.

Many top NBA players make alot of turnovers. Kobe makes about 3 per game - and has gone as high as 4 in his career. Wade is a career 3.7 turnover guy etc etc. Not to mention that our offense is predicated on ALOT of passing and scorers are quite inconsistent with giving turnovers. Often when Paul or Rondo will whip the ball to Perkins only to have him miss it - and they get credited with the turnover..

Show me a top slashing player making like 1 or 2 turnovers a game? The only guys who can keep it that low are guys like Ray Allen whose game frankly is below average right now.. He isn't Hinrich bad - so I wouldn't do that trade. But when JJ Redick and Wally S. give you trouble in the playoffs you should probably think about playing TA more if your the coach.

[JSABleedsGreen]

Turnovers per game dont' tell the real story. Pierce is a guy who is trying to do ALOT with the basketball - hence the turnovers. Ray Allen gets set up with mutiple screens. It's much the same story with TA. TA is trying to handle the ball and beat people off the dribble or set up guys.

Many top NBA players make alot of turnovers. Kobe makes about 3 per game - and has gone as high as 4 in his career. Wade is a career 3.7 turnover guy etc etc. Not to mention that our offense is predicated on ALOT of passing and scorers are quite inconsistent with giving turnovers. Often when Paul or Rondo will whip the ball to Perkins only to have him miss it - and they get credited with the turnover..

Show me a top slashing player making like 1 or 2 turnovers a game? The only guys who can keep it that low are guys like Ray Allen whose game frankly is below average right now.. He isn't Hinrich bad - so I wouldn't do that trade. But when JJ Redick and Wally S. give you trouble in the playoffs you should probably think about playing TA more if your the coach.

Ray Allen is not a slashing player. Ray Allen turnover ratio is low because he's a shooter. His best asset is moving without the ball in order to free up the shooting space. It's when he dribbles the ball that he gets himself into trouble. Look up RIP's turnover stats i'm pretty sure he and Ray are around the same. They are shooters first then attack second. Pierce is attack first then settle for the shot. It's kind of hard to compare those players to players whom always have the ball in their hands or players who need to dribble in order to be effective. TA is not a shooter, he's a slasher....Marquis Daniels slasher not a shooter. Eddie house shooter. Notice how Eddie's is real low....

[SichtingLives]

I've long believed that Tony would've blossomed so much more (sans injuries) on a lesser team with the opportunity to start and play 30+ minutes per game than playing in a back up role on this team. For his sake, I actually wanted him to go elsewhere as a FA to see him get that opportunity (while others just wanted him off the team).

Boston has never been a particularly good fit for Tony for the simple fact that he gets in a better rhythm as a starter, and frankly we've almost always had a better starting option at SG than him. I understand the negative reaction to the suggestion that Tony could or should start over Ray given their respective histories, but people need to realize that the gap has closed considerably between them this year.

[GuyClinch]

Ray Allen is not a slashing player. Ray Allen turnover ratio is low because he's a shooter. His best asset is moving without the ball in order to free up the shooting space. It's when he dribbles the ball that he gets himself into trouble. Look up RIP's turnover stats i'm pretty sure he and Ray are around the same. They are shooters first then attack second. Pierce is attack first then settle for the shot. It's kind of hard to compare those players to players whom always have the ball in their hands or players who need to dribble in order to be effective. TA is not a shooter, he's a slasher....Marquis Daniels slasher not a shooter. Eddie house shooter. Notice how Eddie's is real low....

You do realize this is basically what I wrote right? <g> Ray's turnovers are lower then Pierces because he is mostly just a shooter.

[Hemingway]

On D, ok he has been good as of late. On O? Really? Yeah he has come up with a big play or two but he has also thrown passes away and wasted the shot clock only to pass to someone else to take a hard shot over and over. Its just stupid stuff he does. Take the gam tonight the break with Perk in the 1st. Why does he have to stand right near Perk on the break? Perk almost missed because TOny was crowding him. How does he not by this point know not to run right next to a team mate on a fast break? I mean thats the stuff HS players mess up on.

[Captain_Caveman]

TA is not an NBA starter by any stretch. Sure, he could start on some bad teams, but whatever.

Keep in mind that most of those PER stats are in a backup role, playing against other backups.

Glad he can give us some minutes in this time of need, but I do NOT need to see this guy on the floor during the playoffs. Inconsistent, poor decision-maker, gets rattled, weak handle. We aren't winning a title with that guy in the rotation.

[Kids Are Alright]

Tony supporter here....he stank against the hapless Nets as many of you predicted and as the saying goes, for every good game TA plays, he stinks it up for 3 games...so we've got 5 more bad ones lined up, that carries us past the all star game.

He looked like junk out there on offense, a specialist on missed layups and garbage shots and he took the worst jumpshot from the corner that I've ever seen and wasn't much on defense.

No, he's no starter.

Hope 'Quis comes back a player.

I still think you start and play TA for his defense against Wade and Kobe.

[darrendaye]

I missed most of the first half, so I can't comment on how he played in that period. Tony should not start on this team. That has been my stance throughout. While I don't agree that a two slasher offense cannot work, a two slasher plus a non-shooting center DOES create issues with spacing.

[Hemingway]

Hes starting now because PP is hurt and we want to up his value before the trade deadline.