Does anyone else NOT love Martin?

[darrendaye]

Slartibartfast, I have to side with Sully. I've been arguing that a two slasher offense can be effective in my defense of Daniels and TA playing together, but, I will state that I think combining two non-shooting wings with a non-shooting threat center like Perkins, would cause the spacing problems that the anti-TA camp fears. I contend that with two sides available around a basketball net it is very possible to have two inside dominant scorers with three options to pass out for a shot outside. But the task is much more daunting and much more susceptible to forcing your non-shooters to shoot with only two legitimate kick out options. And the way this offense runs currently and the number of times Rondo is forced to shoot deep outside shots with the clock winding down, I would be much more nervous about their ability to adjust.

[darrendaye]

Ortho, the only reason Sacramento COULD be willing to trade Martin for basically nothing is the same reason (mainly) people are cautious about this hypothetical trade, his health.

[MyInsatiableOne]

Martin always seems to be hurt...do we want to take on that risk?

[Slartibartfast]

Slartiblast

But he is a terrible shooter he is actually worse than Rondo. Look at this

http://www.82games.com/0809/FGSORT2.HTM

This is last years numbers and not much has changed he shot 30% on 3's and 34% on 2pt jumpers. He is an awful shooter. The years his 3pt percentage is respectable he only took about a 150 attemtps, by comparison Ray makes 200.

Your floor spacing is shot worse you are backing yourself into a situation were you would have shoot an excellent percentage to even compete. It is just making the game hard there is no contender that is starting a line up with one guy who can shoot 3's.

I think you're exaggerating. Put Sheed in there and we'd be about as potent from outside as the starting line-up for last-year's champs. They ran out 1 good deep shooter (Fisher), 1 average one (Bryant, whose career 3pt shooting is right in line with Sheed's) and 1 below-average one (Ariza, whose %s are identical to Iggy;s in that chart), plus Bynum and Gasol.

Certainly perimeter shooting would be problematic, but not insurmountable. Just scroll over to inside shots on that list, where Iggy ranks #1, ahead of LeBron.

Last year the Sixers, running with a backcourt of Andre Miller and Iguodala, boasted Thaddeus Young and his 34% deep shooting (with less than a make per game) as their sharpshooter (and no other major rotation player even sniffed that %) and they were scoring 107.9 points per 100 possessions (19th in the league), or .2 MORE points than the Celtics are scoring this year!

You're telling me that a team with the a 45% 3pt shooter in Pierce and an elite mid-range shooter in KG couldn't improve on that mark?

[sully00]

slart

I am telling you that I can't believe how bad a shooter Iguodala is and it just goes against all of my sense as a human being and basketball fan to want my team to pay a swing man 60 mil over 4 years to build walls. This is why he is available.

I also just don't think there is anyway to skin this cat. I don't want Paul Pierce stuck on the 3 pt line, I don't want to play Sheed over Perkins because he can shoot 3's badly and I don't want to play House over Rondo so that we can at least try and make it so there on are only 3 defenders camped out in the lane.

The Sixers sucked last season and they suck worse this year. I love how trading for this guy who has been on one winning team in his life as a rookie is a no brainer but Kevin Martin is a loser.

[GuyClinch]

Wow..Those iggy numbers are pretty awful. Sully makes some good points. I think I have to favour Martin over Iggy now. In the times I have seen Iggy play he shot fine. Obviously that was unusual..

[campybatman]

For me, I don't object to acquiring Martin, I object to his contract. But I can't say that I'm a fan of his. I don't know much about him other than he's a pure scorer and seemingly injury prone. Also, I take it he's an one dimensional player. I'm not a fan of one dimensional players. Because if your shots are failing you, you typically don't help your team in other ways. I mean Boston already has House who's as one dimensional as they come.

See, this excerpt from today's Globe article spells it out clearly. This trade can't happen and isn't going to happen. The chances of Boston acquiring Martin are very unlikely. So that's no and no. No, we don't want Nocioni. No, we can't offer you Perkins.

But acquiring Martin might be contingent on accepting the contract of Andres Nocioni, who has two more years on his deal. According to Celtics sources, the organization is not interested in taking on “bad contracts’’ that could hurt salary cap space.

Also, the Kings are seeking a legitimate center to play alongside cornerstone Jason Thompson and aren’t eager to deal Martin if they can’t get one in return.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball ... ltics+news

[GuyClinch]

How multi-dimensional is Ray Allen then? Also I think your reading into things - saying you don't want a bad contract doesn't mean the trade won't happen. If we acquire Noc we would just claim his contract is good. If you want a prior example - Raef Lafrenz.

With regards to trades both sides posture - and then spin things to save face... If we want a younger better player then Ray Allen for his expiring we are going to have to take a bad contract back. If the Kings want to move Martin and then acquire a free agent with Ray's expiring they aren't going to get a better cornerstone back...

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

The Sixers sucked last season and they suck worse this year. I love how trading for this guy who has been on one winning team in his life as a rookie is a no brainer but Kevin Martin is a loser.

I'm guessing it's a bit of that east coast bias, since not many people will stay up to watch Kings games. We can probably attribute this board's love of Iggy to how he's given Pierce a hard time whenever they match up. Just another case of people overrating a player when he plays against your favorite team.

I agree: Martin > Iguodala

[cfan79]

Igoudala > Martin

Iggy is a stronger more athletic player whose been relatively healthy. He just hasn't had enough talent around him to do anything. Martin is decent, but he's just too big of a risk because of his health issues and body frame.

[avi623]

KMart has essentially put up very similar numbers to Ray, when Ray was in his mid-20's, so I'm not sure why Martin equates to waiving the white flag, or why he is such an objectionable acquisition. Yeah he makes a lot, but he is 27, so theoretically we would be getting his best years.

Most importantly though, this team has no one right now that can score efficiently, or at least as efficiently as KMart does. Pierce is shooting better than he ever has, but he gets to the line less now and creates fewer shots. Martin walks onto the court and gets 10 free throws a game, while shooting mid-80's from the stripe. That would be invaluable to this offense. Further, he is a bad defender, but that was a huge objection to the Ray Allen acquisition. Then he got here, played with KG and under Thibideau, and became a serviceable defensive player.

Also, why would Philly trade Iguadola within the division? From what i have read, that is the one thing they are extremely unlikely to do, so isn't that kind of a moot point anyway.

[cfan79]

Also, why would Philly trade Iguadola within the division? From what i have read, that is the one thing they are extremely unlikely to do, so isn't that kind of a moot point anyway.

They seem eager to get rid of one their bad contracts and are willing to dangle Iggy to get it done. Besides they don't look like they are going to be a rival anytime soon.

[Slartibartfast]

slart

I am telling you that I can't believe how bad a shooter Iguodala is and it just goes against all of my sense as a human being and basketball fan to want my team to pay a swing man 60 mil over 4 years to build walls. This is why he is available.

I also just don't think there is anyway to skin this cat. I don't want Paul Pierce stuck on the 3 pt line, I don't want to play Sheed over Perkins because he can shoot 3's badly and I don't want to play House over Rondo so that we can at least try and make it so there on are only 3 defenders camped out in the lane.

The Sixers sucked last season and they suck worse this year. I love how trading for this guy who has been on one winning team in his life as a rookie is a no brainer but Kevin Martin is a loser.

You didn't respond to the substance of my argument. I acknowledge that Iguodala is a poor jump shooter. He's on par with Trevor Ariza in that category.

I'm saying that it's not that big of a deal. The Sixers of last year were marginally better offensively than this year's Celtics. They started Andre Miller (28% from 3), Willie Green (32% from 3), Iguodala (31% from three), Thaddeus Young (34% from 3) and Dalembert for most of the year. Even without starting Sheed, I think the C's could best that production.

[sully00]

Slart

Sure we could and we would suck that team shot 45% from the field and scored 97 points a game. I don't think we are very good right now. Were 4th in the East and fading. We just lost a 12 point over 3 pt shooting their good to our none. How the hell is being the 08-09 Sixers a goal? Look at the Cav's, Lakers, Magic, Hawks, Spurs, Nuggets not the Sixers.