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SI.com Hayward #16, Irving #21, Horford #30

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Re: RE: Re: SI.com Hayward #16, Irving #21, Horford #30 

Post#21 » by VeryMuchWoke » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:00 pm

KGboss wrote:
iTalkToTheLord wrote:One thing being overlooked here is Smart should clearly be in the top 100 over guys like Lou Williams and Elfrid Payton.

I believe Smart is #64


He is, on ESPNs list. Unranked on SI's.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: SI.com Hayward #16, Irving #21, Horford #30 

Post#22 » by KGboss » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:02 pm

iTalkToTheLord wrote:
KGboss wrote:
iTalkToTheLord wrote:One thing being overlooked here is Smart should clearly be in the top 100 over guys like Lou Williams and Elfrid Payton.

I believe Smart is #64


He is, on ESPNs list. Unranked on SI's.

Oh well...damn
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Re: SI.com Hayward #16, Irving #21, Horford #30 

Post#23 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:07 pm

I dont think the ratings are all that bad (only looked at 30-11). I honestly dont think there is much of a difference between players 11 to about 22-23. You could take that group of 11-12 players and randomly rank them and it would be hard for me to really poke holes in it. Now do I think there are some outliers? Of course, I dont think Lowry is on the same level as these guys. But I think there are about 11-12 players in that 3rd tier of players in the league. The top 3-4 are the top tier the rest of the top 10 are in the 2nd tier and you got these guys that are in the 3rd tier. I think almost all of those guys have the potential to become top 7-10 type players and have an MVP caliber type season.
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Re: SI.com Hayward #16, Irving #21, Horford #30 

Post#24 » by SmartWentCrazy » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:15 pm

Paul George is still living off of his pre-injury reputation, I see. Interesting. Love how he gets lauded for his playoff performance (even though he didn't win a game), while Hayward doesn't get credit for carrying a team to the second round in the west while putting up 24-6-4 on 60% TS%. Or how they ignore that Kyrie has been unstoppable in the postseason.
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Re: SI.com Hayward #16, Irving #21, Horford #30 

Post#25 » by Froob » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:33 pm

I want to see somebody with a straight face say they prefer Kyle Lowry to Kyrie Irving in the playoffs.
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Re: SI.com Hayward #16, Irving #21, Horford #30 

Post#26 » by London2Boston » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:36 pm

I mean, they had Kyrie has the 8th best PG last year and that was even after THAT Finals performance. It is what it is..he always he's slept on due to the Lebron factor.
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Re: SI.com Hayward #16, Irving #21, Horford #30 

Post#27 » by Jakeopp » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:21 pm

PierceFan4ever wrote:
Jakeopp wrote:
PierceFan4ever wrote:Can someone tell me in what ways is Damien Lillard or Mike overrated Conley better than Kyrie??

Damian Lillard has proven he can lead a team and run an offense more than Kyrie at this point, very similar players though. Kyrie has a lot to prove this year, I'm fine with people ranking him lower than I personally would.

As for Conley, he's more efficient, better at running an offense/passing/defense. Not saying that I agree with SI's conclusion, just that he does have advantages over Kyrie.


Kyrie was young. Lillard proves he can carry a team alongside CJ McCollum to low 40 win seasons and getting bounced in 4-5 games in the first round. Kyrie has shown a lot more than Lillard ever has in big games. And no before anyone brings up Lebron, Kyrie was dropping 30-40 purely on isolation plays against teams like the Warriors. Mike Conley is someone who I always found overrated, he has some advantages over Kyrie for sure like defense but he to me is a safe player where you can't count on him to have huge offensive games to help push a team over. He's a solid all star at best imo, not someone who is a top 15-20 player in this league.

First off, i'm not taking a stance in this ridiculous debate, merely explaining why people would rank these two ahead of Kyrie.

Sure he was young, that doesn't change anything I said. He hasn't proven what he's capable of doing without Lebron by his side. I'm not saying he can't do those things, just that we don't currently know. All we can go by right now is how he played before Lebron, and how he played when Lebron was on the bench.

Sure, Kyrie has shown more in big games, he's also had the advantage to play in many of them every single year. Why? Like it or not, because he plays with Lebron.

Lillard is the man on his team, he faces more pressure from opposing defenses on a nightly basis. Despite that he still puts up nearly identical numbers to Kyrie. Playing alongside the best player since Jordan is an advantage that can't be understated IMO.

edit: Lillard apparently has better numbers against GS.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/6zi209/damian_lillard_vs_kyrie_irving_stats_against_gsw/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=comment_list

Whatever on Conley, they're different players. Kyrie is more capable of carrying a team through scoring. Conley is better at basically everything else. This is a guy who put up something like 35/8/9 on the Spurs in the playoffs, he's still capable of getting his own. Compare his numbers from this years playoffs to those of Kyrie's and there isn't a huge difference. Small sample size, but Conley bested him across the board going by advanced stats and per 100 numbers.

Again, I have no horse in this race, I just don't think it's ridiculous to prefer the others.
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Re: SI.com Hayward #16, Irving #21, Horford #30 

Post#28 » by Marvel » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:44 pm

Lemme guess. Lonzo is top 50.
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Re: SI.com Hayward #16, Irving #21, Horford #30 

Post#29 » by Froob » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:55 pm

CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:Sports Illustrated............the only thing keeping them alive is their Swimsuit Issue. That's pretty much the only issue I ever stop to look at while I'm at a newsstand. Other than that, I feel like they're kind of irrelevant nowadays.

Who needs that? Plenty of good stuff on the internet....swimsuits I mean.. :wink:
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Re: SI.com Hayward #16, Irving #21, Horford #30 

Post#30 » by return2glory » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:15 pm

I feel Kryie should be anywhere between 9-14. Hayward between 13-18. Horford between 35-40.
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Re: SI.com Hayward #16, Irving #21, Horford #30 

Post#31 » by captain green » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:22 pm

Lame...how is smart not in the top 100? Plus sport illustrated is as cool as readers digest.
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Re: SI.com Hayward #16, Irving #21, Horford #30 

Post#32 » by Pacino62 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:58 pm

They can eat crow after the season. **** SI
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Re: SI.com Hayward #16, Irving #21, Horford #30 

Post#33 » by tlee324 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:37 am

KGboss wrote:But how do guys like Simmons and Fultz make the list when they have yet to play a single game?


Some guys on the board here had Fultz in the Hall of Fame before the draft.

I may or may not have been implicit on that, lol.
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Re: SI.com Hayward #16, Irving #21, Horford #30 

Post#34 » by threrf23 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:32 am

Froob wrote:I want to see somebody with a straight face say they prefer Kyle Lowry to Kyrie Irving in the playoffs.


viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1429753&view=viewpoll
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Re: SI.com Hayward #16, Irving #21, Horford #30 

Post#35 » by Kolkmania » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:56 am

akhan786 wrote:Which is why Kyrie had to leave. People can't mentally separate how good he is from Lebron because most people didn't watch the Cavs until Bron came back.

There aren't 5 players in the league I'd rather have in the Finals let alone 20.


LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard, Stephen Curry, James Harden, Chris Paul, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Jimmy Butler, Draymond Green, Paul George, John Wall, Gordon Hayward and Anthony Davis are the names on top of my head.

Can't imagine that the consensus here thinks that Kyrie is better than the list above right now(!), again the emphasis on right now, not multiple years from now.

There are debatable ones like Mike Conley, Marc Gasol, Klay Thompson and Rudy Gobert who I personally value higher, two-way players who have value on both sides on the court. Next is a whole crop of PG's who are really similar in their offensive impact (Irving, Thomas, Lowry, Lillard, Walker) and other one-way players (Cousins, Jokic and KAT).
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Re: SI.com Hayward #16, Irving #21, Horford #30 

Post#36 » by ParticleMan » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:21 am

So irrelevant.

only ranking that matters is at the end of the season. for the team.
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Re: SI.com Hayward #16, Irving #21, Horford #30 

Post#37 » by Theocy » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:46 am

Kolkmania wrote:
akhan786 wrote:Which is why Kyrie had to leave. People can't mentally separate how good he is from Lebron because most people didn't watch the Cavs until Bron came back.

There aren't 5 players in the league I'd rather have in the Finals let alone 20.


LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard, Stephen Curry, James Harden, Chris Paul, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Jimmy Butler, Draymond Green, Paul George, John Wall, Gordon Hayward and Anthony Davis are the names on top of my head.

Can't imagine that the consensus here thinks that Kyrie is better than the list above right now(!), again the emphasis on right now, not multiple years from now.

There are debatable ones like Mike Conley, Marc Gasol, Klay Thompson and Rudy Gobert who I personally value higher, two-way players who have value on both sides on the court. Next is a whole crop of PG's who are really similar in their offensive impact (Irving, Thomas, Lowry, Lillard, Walker) and other one-way players (Cousins, Jokic and KAT).



you really value Gasol Klay and Gobert higher than irving? Really? I get that you are trying to make a point about players liike Leonard and Anthony Davis but REALLY?
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Re: SI.com Hayward #16, Irving #21, Horford #30 

Post#38 » by Froob » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:10 am

threrf23 wrote:
Froob wrote:I want to see somebody with a straight face say they prefer Kyle Lowry to Kyrie Irving in the playoffs.


viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1429753&view=viewpoll

Lmao, this was before 2016 finals but got damn

Agree with most of the comments here. There is a killer instinct that Kyle brings every second he's on the court that Kyrie doesn't.
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Re: SI.com Hayward #16, Irving #21, Horford #30 

Post#39 » by Froob » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:11 am

Kolkmania wrote:
akhan786 wrote:Which is why Kyrie had to leave. People can't mentally separate how good he is from Lebron because most people didn't watch the Cavs until Bron came back.

There aren't 5 players in the league I'd rather have in the Finals let alone 20.


LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard, Stephen Curry, James Harden, Chris Paul, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Jimmy Butler, Draymond Green, Paul George, John Wall, Gordon Hayward and Anthony Davis are the names on top of my head.

Can't imagine that the consensus here thinks that Kyrie is better than the list above right now(!), again the emphasis on right now, not multiple years from now.

There are debatable ones like Mike Conley, Marc Gasol, Klay Thompson and Rudy Gobert who I personally value higher, two-way players who have value on both sides on the court. Next is a whole crop of PG's who are really similar in their offensive impact (Irving, Thomas, Lowry, Lillard, Walker) and other one-way players (Cousins, Jokic and KAT).

Wall is so overrated, he sucked at end of games in the playoffs.
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Re: SI.com Hayward #16, Irving #21, Horford #30 

Post#40 » by UNCBlue012 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:53 am

Yeah, I saw the rankings and laughed. I am, however, on board with the Hayward ranking. That's why I wanted him so badly -- the guy is a top 20 player in the league IMO.

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