Celtics 112 @ Hornets 117 Post-game Notes (9-8)

[JHTruth]

The problem with benching Hayward - and I agree that he hasn't played (mainly shot) well in most games - is that he is often the only guy playing offense as though basketball is a team sport.

He's also a surprisingly good defender. My guess is that he got sent to the bench first because of the feared perception that he started though still recovering from injury because he is Stevens's pet. But note he got the more minutes and was the guy in closing instead of Brown. (Note: It was Smart being humiliated on D by Kemba and Kyrie and Tatum missing shots late that sealed the loss, but at least that's who you want on Kemba and who you want taking the late shots.)

Hayward is OK right now. I don't want to act like the guy is just beyond horrible and a useless player. But realistically his scoring and Al's decline along with their forced roles is really hurting this team. We're getting 21 points COMBINED from out two highest-paid players a night. Plus Al has now lost a step and can't get to shooters on the PnR as we saw last night as Kemba was roasting us on the same play over and over and over.

At some point the team will have a reckoning that the Kyrie-Hayward-Horford core window has passed, if it was ever open. Hayward's injury was tragic, but it threw a wrench in everything. It poisons a locker room when undeserving players soak up mins just because of their contract. This is not a joke, I think this would be a better team right now if you gave 20 mins of Haywards share to RW3, Yabs, and Semi.

[JHTruth]

What I'm most disappointed about is my lack of excitement to watch the games. If I have any excuse to miss a game I will likely take it. This team isn't very fun to watch.

I honestly don't care about this team near as much as past years. The chemistry is waaaaay off. I only watch in the faint hopes Williams gets in.

[Silky]

What I'm most disappointed about is my lack of excitement to watch the games. If I have any excuse to miss a game I will likely take it. This team isn't very fun to watch.

I honestly don't care about this team near as much as past years. The chemistry is waaaaay off. I only watch in the faint hopes Williams gets in.

Williams wpuld be better in a lineup of irving/brown/hayward/tatum than horf I believe.

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[themagyar]

Hey we’ll take Heywood back from you, if you throw in a couple firsts. And a bag of Doritos.

[Celts17Pride]

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Thank goodness Celtics have a $13 million per year defensive wiz!

[cloverleaf]

The problem with benching Hayward - and I agree that he hasn't played (mainly shot) well in most games - is that he is often the only guy playing offense as though basketball is a team sport.

He's also a surprisingly good defender. My guess is that he got sent to the bench first because of the feared perception that he started though still recovering from injury because he is Stevens's pet. But note he got the more minutes and was the guy in closing instead of Brown. (Note: It was Smart being humiliated on D by Kemba and Kyrie and Tatum missing shots late that sealed the loss, but at least that's who you want on Kemba and who you want taking the late shots.)

Hayward is OK right now. I don't want to act like the guy is just beyond horrible and a useless player. But realistically his scoring and Al's decline along with their forced roles is really hurting this team. We're getting 21 points COMBINED from out two highest-paid players a night. Plus Al has now lost a step and can't get to shooters on the PnR as we saw last night as Kemba was roasting us on the same play over and over and over.

At some point the team will have a reckoning that the Kyrie-Hayward-Horford core window has passed, if it was ever open. Hayward's injury was tragic, but it threw a wrench in everything. It poisons a locker room when undeserving players soak up mins just because of their contract. This is not a joke, I think this would be a better team right now if you gave 20 mins of Haywards share to RW3, Yabs, and Semi.

Agreed. Horford is sadly on the slow drive to the glue factory. But he can at least be helped by not having him face starting 5's every night. And the salaries aren't really in the mix when it comes to how the team is playing. They did pretty well without those two highest-paid players last spring, so the money isn't really it. And I agree with you on anything that smacks of coach's pet players getting undeserved minutes. But I don't think that's all of it. Brown has significantly underperformed Hayward. All he does really is shoot -- and he's done that worse than Hayward, who does much, much more.

But I still go back to that Gary Washburn article that was pointing the finger at Rozier and Tatum, saying the team understood that they were being selfish and resented Kyrie and Gordon--while the biggest culprit of all, JB, was quoted in the same article. That led to the two national writers getting in on the Rozier rumor-mongering and IMO was prima facie evidence that there were deep issues already within the locker room. (And yes, I do suspect Brown for planting that.) I suspect that this team has issues that run deeper than the level of play that we have seen so far--and I am curious as to what Danny might do by the deadline.

[Silky]

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Thank goodness Celtics have a $13 million per year defensive wiz!

Cannot stop all good offensive players no matter how good you are defensively.

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[celts33]

Honestly I am still ok with the Celts, I've lowered my expectations a bit. I bought into the off-season hype and expected them to be better than a mediocre team to start the year. Now I just want too see them improve over time which they show signs of. I really don't know if they'll turn it around in time to shore up any kind of homecourt advantage in the playoffs which I think they are going to need.

I am not counting Hayward out yet, it could take half the season or more for him to get back. It sucks but from a business perspective Danny has to keep Brad playing him until they decide he's either going to be his old self again or he's never going to return to old form. I do believe we're a better team without him right now. When he's out there he's barely even trying to shoot. Last night I thought he should've been benched in the 4th quarter and they should've played Jaylen Brown instead, Jaylen was having a much better game.

The problem I'm seeing is that when Hayward is on the floor Brown is tentative and not aggressive as he could be and his game needs force and aggression.

When the smoke clears, I'd love to see Irving, Tatum and Brown as our starting nucleus.

[celticfan42487]

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Our problem, in a nutshell. Our offensive system sucks and Stevens wont change it.

Baynes Starting is a good Start.
They need to make some more tweaks, to their style of play.

That whole blocking Smart, forcing Horford to guard Walker, was well planned.

Baynes "started" and played 7 minutes.

Hayward came off the bench and had the second most minutes played on the team.

I wouldn't count that as changing the starting lineup.

Playing the matchups and having Smart guard Kemba I agree is good strategy.

[ballup]

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Thank goodness Celtics have a $13 million per year defensive wiz!

What is the complaint here? Smart has never been the guy to lockdown quick and dynamic elite shooters. He does fine against the Reddick/Korver types, but not against the Curry/Lillard/Kyrie/Kemba types.

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[celticfan42487]

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Thank goodness Celtics have a $13 million per year defensive wiz!

What is the complaint here? Smart has never been the guy to lockdown quick and dynamic elite shooters. He does fine against the Reddick/Korver types, but not against the Curry/Lillard/Kyrie/Kemba types.

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Well this is small sample size theater but yeah Smart has always not been good against PGs that have any speed to them due to his lack of athleticism.

For players like them, at least last season, Jaylen Brown was our best choice to defend them. The problem is that means one of Irving or Rozier often would have to defend a shooting guard and unless it was a smaller one they give up too many inches and too much strength to make it a great choice.

[djFan71]

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Thank goodness Celtics have a $13 million per year defensive wiz!

What is the complaint here? Smart has never been the guy to lockdown quick and dynamic elite shooters. He does fine against the Reddick/Korver types, but not against the Curry/Lillard/Kyrie/Kemba types.

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Well this is small sample size theater but yeah Smart has always not been good against PGs that have any speed to them due to his lack of athleticism.

For players like them, at least last season, Jaylen Brown was our best choice to defend them. The problem is that means one of Irving or Rozier often would have to defend a shooting guard and unless it was a smaller one they give up too many inches and too much strength to make it a great choice.

We'd also have to play Jaylen...

[cloverleaf]

The problem with benching Hayward - and I agree that he hasn't played (mainly shot) well in most games - is that he is often the only guy playing offense as though basketball is a team sport.

He's also a surprisingly good defender. My guess is that he got sent to the bench first because of the feared perception that he started though still recovering from injury because he is Stevens's pet. But note he got the more minutes and was the guy in closing instead of Brown. (Note: It was Smart being humiliated on D by Kemba and Kyrie and Tatum missing shots late that sealed the loss, but at least that's who you want on Kemba and who you want taking the late shots.)

Hayward is OK right now. I don't want to act like the guy is just beyond horrible and a useless player. But realistically his scoring and Al's decline along with their forced roles is really hurting this team. We're getting 21 points COMBINED from out two highest-paid players a night. Plus Al has now lost a step and can't get to shooters on the PnR as we saw last night as Kemba was roasting us on the same play over and over and over.

At some point the team will have a reckoning that the Kyrie-Hayward-Horford core window has passed, if it was ever open. Hayward's injury was tragic, but it threw a wrench in everything. It poisons a locker room when undeserving players soak up mins just because of their contract. This is not a joke, I think this would be a better team right now if you gave 20 mins of Haywards share to RW3, Yabs, and Semi.

Again, they didn't have either Hayward or Horford available last year and were fine. Al is getting old--so it goes. Landing him when they did was big for the team. And Hayward's injury couldn't be anticipated, so it goes sometimes. He may recover like George, or he may be shadow of his old self, like Rose. Kyrie of course is expiring and Al is rolling off soon. They presumably want to add in Tatum and Brown, who we can help will be deserving, when their continuing contracts roll off, so no big deal IMO whether Wyc is paying big money for less than peak max contract guys over the next year or two.

And if you give 20 minutes of Hayward away right now, you are limiting your capabilities come the postseason. No reason to give up so soon!