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MAX contract for Hayward at 2020 free agent market

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Re: MAX contract for Hayward at 2020 free agent market 

Post#41 » by Darth Celtic » Thu Nov 7, 2019 9:57 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:
brackdan70 wrote:
Darth Celtic wrote:I think he might opt out and we'll give him like 4 year, 110m.

That would be really nice in my eyes. I expect he gets a bit more though...idk.


He’s a much better player than Jaylen when healthy. Plus, in this scenario, he’d be healthy and a current UFA, not a year away from RFA (two things that should have slightly deflated Jaylens value).

If healthy, Hayward upwards of the Siakam range of 4/130, if not all the way to his full 10 year max.

Yeah, he's worth that, but with limited cap space is he going to leave the Celtics for a max contract on the Knicks or Hawks?

I think with his reduced athleticism and current age of 30 when he opts out, and the fact he loves Stevens, he'd give a home team discount at 27-30m a year for 4 years. He won't be getting 40m a year I think.
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Re: MAX contract for Hayward at 2020 free agent market 

Post#42 » by Marvel » Thu Nov 7, 2019 10:17 pm

keevsnick1 wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:
Bleeding Green wrote:He's 100 pct opting out, been saying it for months. He'll be exiting his prime, coming off an elite year, EZ max deal with long term money, daddy is always happy. Current FA market is barren and he's the best player on a team that should win 55 games.


I’ve been saying this all summer. It’s doubtful we would be better off trading him now as he’s playing so well but if you can get 80 cents on the dollar type trade and rebalance the roster.....it’s something to consider. Orlando and Indiana would be obvious trade partners. I think if he likes it here and communicates that it would be better to keep him. I’m okay with him opting out and getting max here if he continues to play at such a high level all year. With Kemba, Tatum and Brown contracts, we will never be a free agent player anyway so our best chance to get a max level player is by having salary on the books and via trade.


On the other hand here are the five teams who will have more than 20 million in cap space this summer: Cleveland, Atlanta, New York, Memphis, Charlotte.

Not exactly a list of teams that will be looking to max a 30 year old. Or a list of team hayward would be super excited to join.

Also, lets see him do this for more than six games. he was averaging 16.5 ppg before that big Cleveland game.

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Re: MAX contract for Hayward at 2020 free agent market 

Post#43 » by LewisnotMiller » Thu Nov 7, 2019 10:51 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:Yes, winning Finals MVP and leading the team to their 18th banner would guarantee him a max contract.


Man, he does that I'll chip in.
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Re: MAX contract for Hayward at 2020 free agent market 

Post#44 » by FelixD » Thu Nov 7, 2019 11:15 pm

I would max Tatum but anything more than 120m/4y for Gordon will be yikes.
He has nice game the last day but im not sure if he can go back to his old form
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Re: MAX contract for Hayward at 2020 free agent market 

Post#45 » by Captain_Caveman » Thu Nov 7, 2019 11:50 pm

keevsnick1 wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:
Bleeding Green wrote:He's 100 pct opting out, been saying it for months. He'll be exiting his prime, coming off an elite year, EZ max deal with long term money, daddy is always happy. Current FA market is barren and he's the best player on a team that should win 55 games.


I’ve been saying this all summer. It’s doubtful we would be better off trading him now as he’s playing so well but if you can get 80 cents on the dollar type trade and rebalance the roster.....it’s something to consider. Orlando and Indiana would be obvious trade partners. I think if he likes it here and communicates that it would be better to keep him. I’m okay with him opting out and getting max here if he continues to play at such a high level all year. With Kemba, Tatum and Brown contracts, we will never be a free agent player anyway so our best chance to get a max level player is by having salary on the books and via trade.


On the other hand here are the five teams who will have more than 20 million in cap space this summer: Cleveland, Atlanta, New York, Memphis, Charlotte.

Not exactly a list of teams that will be looking to max a 30 year old. Or a list of team hayward would be super excited to join.

Also, lets see him do this for more than six games. he was averaging 16.5 ppg before that big Cleveland game.


Half the league can get to $25m in cap room with a wave of their hand, and that half could be used be him to leverage a sign-and-trade to most of the other half.
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Re: MAX contract for Hayward at 2020 free agent market 

Post#46 » by keevsnick1 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 5:20 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:
keevsnick1 wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:
I’ve been saying this all summer. It’s doubtful we would be better off trading him now as he’s playing so well but if you can get 80 cents on the dollar type trade and rebalance the roster.....it’s something to consider. Orlando and Indiana would be obvious trade partners. I think if he likes it here and communicates that it would be better to keep him. I’m okay with him opting out and getting max here if he continues to play at such a high level all year. With Kemba, Tatum and Brown contracts, we will never be a free agent player anyway so our best chance to get a max level player is by having salary on the books and via trade.


On the other hand here are the five teams who will have more than 20 million in cap space this summer: Cleveland, Atlanta, New York, Memphis, Charlotte.

Not exactly a list of teams that will be looking to max a 30 year old. Or a list of team hayward would be super excited to join.

Also, lets see him do this for more than six games. he was averaging 16.5 ppg before that big Cleveland game.


Half the league can get to $25m in cap room with a wave of their hand, and that half could be used be him to leverage a sign-and-trade to most of the other half.


This isnt accurate. About 5 teams can realistically get to max space without significant movement. By that I mean without having to start trading firsts to dump salary.

Not sure where the disconnect is here, its a simple accounting problem. Not a lot of teams have more than 20 million in space.
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Re: MAX contract for Hayward at 2020 free agent market 

Post#47 » by keevsnick1 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 5:30 am

keevsnick1 wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
keevsnick1 wrote:
On the other hand here are the five teams who will have more than 20 million in cap space this summer: Cleveland, Atlanta, New York, Memphis, Charlotte.

Not exactly a list of teams that will be looking to max a 30 year old. Or a list of team hayward would be super excited to join.

Also, lets see him do this for more than six games. he was averaging 16.5 ppg before that big Cleveland game.


Half the league can get to $25m in cap room with a wave of their hand, and that half could be used be him to leverage a sign-and-trade to most of the other half.


Also 25 million probably wont be enough to lure Hayward away, I think that would be a deal the Celtics would probably offer themselves so not sure why you would cite that number. As a ten year vet his max would be 35% of a 116 million cap or a 40.6 million starting salary on a max deal which I think most reasonable people would balk at paying for his age 31-34 seasons. I thik the most likely outcome is (assuming he plays well and opts out) that he resigns for smaller salalry then he currently has but for more years.
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Re: MAX contract for Hayward at 2020 free agent market 

Post#48 » by RoyceDa59 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 5:33 am

Let’s see how he holds up all season but it’s just great to see him back and playing well.

If he continues this level of play and Celts are on the verge of a chip I think he’ll get paid.


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Re: MAX contract for Hayward at 2020 free agent market 

Post#49 » by Theocy » Fri Nov 8, 2019 10:00 am

If he plays close to this level all season we are top 3 in the east.

Also can we even afford him? A 30m contract to Gordon 30m to Kemba 25 to jaylen and most probably 28-30m to Tatum that's pretty much >100m for 4 players. We're clearly a luxury tax team and we still haven't even discussed how we fill that roster - I guess a lot of vet mins and young players.
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Re: MAX contract for Hayward at 2020 free agent market 

Post#50 » by itrsteve » Fri Nov 8, 2019 1:22 pm

It’s sort of hilarious, one month ago the “problem” was Hayward’s contract and now everybody is worried about losing him all of a sudden.

I’ll be happy to take bets on this one, he’s not going anywhere. He’ll be in green for the long haul.
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Re: MAX contract for Hayward at 2020 free agent market 

Post#51 » by SmartWentCrazy » Fri Nov 8, 2019 1:54 pm

Guessing a 4/140 would keep him.

A team like Cleveland may offer more. But no one who has cap space is all that enticing this offseason.

However, the real interesting question is what we do two years from now when Tatum’s new deal kicks in.
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Re: MAX contract for Hayward at 2020 free agent market 

Post#52 » by MagicBagley18 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 2:42 pm

I don’t understand the “did right by him” part of this equation...we signed him to a max contract, he broke his foot game 1. He rehabbed and recovered as an employee of an nba team just like he would anywhere else and we needed him to recover back to form as much as he wanted to himself.

It was mutually beneficial for him to get back and close to form. Where did we do right by him? surely we didn’t do wrong by him at all, but what did we do so right? we couldn’t trade him, so I don’t get why he should be so thankful to us -other than hopeful thinking and an affinity for Stevens, which an over pay somewhere else can help him get past.
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Re: MAX contract for Hayward at 2020 free agent market 

Post#53 » by MagicBagley18 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 2:46 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:
keevsnick1 wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:
I’ve been saying this all summer. It’s doubtful we would be better off trading him now as he’s playing so well but if you can get 80 cents on the dollar type trade and rebalance the roster.....it’s something to consider. Orlando and Indiana would be obvious trade partners. I think if he likes it here and communicates that it would be better to keep him. I’m okay with him opting out and getting max here if he continues to play at such a high level all year. With Kemba, Tatum and Brown contracts, we will never be a free agent player anyway so our best chance to get a max level player is by having salary on the books and via trade.


On the other hand here are the five teams who will have more than 20 million in cap space this summer: Cleveland, Atlanta, New York, Memphis, Charlotte.

Not exactly a list of teams that will be looking to max a 30 year old. Or a list of team hayward would be super excited to join.

Also, lets see him do this for more than six games. he was averaging 16.5 ppg before that big Cleveland game.


Half the league can get to $25m in cap room with a wave of their hand, and that half could be used be him to leverage a sign-and-trade to most of the other half.


All that and I’m also old enough to remember 4 months ago when Al Horford didn’t take that “hometown discount” bc he loved it here, more years less annual salary deal.
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Re: MAX contract for Hayward at 2020 free agent market 

Post#54 » by Captain_Caveman » Sat Nov 9, 2019 4:55 am

keevsnick1 wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
keevsnick1 wrote:
On the other hand here are the five teams who will have more than 20 million in cap space this summer: Cleveland, Atlanta, New York, Memphis, Charlotte.

Not exactly a list of teams that will be looking to max a 30 year old. Or a list of team hayward would be super excited to join.

Also, lets see him do this for more than six games. he was averaging 16.5 ppg before that big Cleveland game.


Half the league can get to $25m in cap room with a wave of their hand, and that half could be used be him to leverage a sign-and-trade to most of the other half.


This isnt accurate. About 5 teams can realistically get to max space without significant movement. By that I mean without having to start trading firsts to dump salary.

Not sure where the disconnect is here, its a simple accounting problem. Not a lot of teams have more than 20 million in space.


I'll repeat, half the league can have that cap room with a wave of their hand. We see it year after year. Already posted the teams in the Jaylen thread, and there are even less 2020 FAs since then. And also again, those cap room teams can be used to leverage trades to non-cap room teams.

And really, if a team wanted Hayward and just needed to dump a non lottery 1st to get him, or even two, why wouldn't they?
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Re: MAX contract for Hayward at 2020 free agent market 

Post#55 » by LuckyLeprechaun » Sat Nov 9, 2019 5:28 am

MagicBagley18 wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
keevsnick1 wrote:
On the other hand here are the five teams who will have more than 20 million in cap space this summer: Cleveland, Atlanta, New York, Memphis, Charlotte.

Not exactly a list of teams that will be looking to max a 30 year old. Or a list of team hayward would be super excited to join.

Also, lets see him do this for more than six games. he was averaging 16.5 ppg before that big Cleveland game.


Half the league can get to $25m in cap room with a wave of their hand, and that half could be used be him to leverage a sign-and-trade to most of the other half.


All that and I’m also old enough to remember 4 months ago when Al Horford didn’t take that “hometown discount” bc he loved it here, more years less annual salary deal.
Hometown discounts don't generally happen, but contender discounts sometimes do. One thing that's been consistent over the past few years is guys making FA decisions that are based primarily on putting themselves in a position to compete for titles. What hasn't happened much at all is guys going from a contending team to a non contending team.

Hayward will stay even for a little less if we look like his best chance to win. If he sees a better shot at a title, he will leave even if we offer him slightly more.
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Re: MAX contract for Hayward at 2020 free agent market 

Post#56 » by Taget » Sat Nov 9, 2019 6:51 am

We have Kemba at max money. We're not going to have all three of Tatum, Brown, and Hayward at max money as well. One of those three will go. My prediction at the start of the season was it will probably be either Hayward or Brown who gets traded. And it's more likely to be whichever one plays better because they will have the maximum value. Unless we reach the finals I'll still stand by that.
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Re: MAX contract for Hayward at 2020 free agent market 

Post#57 » by Ernest » Sat Nov 9, 2019 9:30 am

sam_I_am wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
LarryBirdsFingr wrote:From a business perspective he has every right in the world to go get that cash regardless of who it comes from, but we easily could have given up on him and nobody would have batted an eye. Hopefully there's a happy medium where we don't completely **** our cap and have a chance to keep him.


Yea for him someone who has seen what a devastating injury can do to you personally and on the court- it only makes sense for him to secure the bag. If he plays at all star level or close to all star level, a team will throw money at him and all it takes is one lousy team to over pay someone.

His 1st 2 seasons in Boston have been nightmares let’s face it, horrible injury and then just an unhappy dysfunctional & underachieving 2nd year, so hopefully this off season spending ithere and then hopefully having a great year for himself and for the team plus our loyalty we’ve shown him- he’ll remember that when it comes to negotiating but I don’t think so.

Way too early to discuss but can’t give him 40 mill max


The reason it’s not too early is that you can’t wait until June to find out he is gone. If we lose him and his max salary slot, the team is kind of screwed and will only be able to get better via rebuild or trade. He may not get a max salary offer, but he is having a career season ( the caveat: small sample size, inflated stats based on 1 great game ).

His last year in Utah he averaged 22 pts, 16 FGA, 44%/39%/84%, 5 reb., 3 asst as first option.
This year so far he has 20 ppg, 14 FGA, 55%/50%/83%, 7.5 reb, 4 asst as third option.

The odds are pretty good that he will be the premier free agent this off season. Kemba Walker just got a max at 29. Gordon will be 30 which for a 6-7 player is equivalent to 27 for a 6-1 guard. His injury is fully healed and is not a long term risk or career shortening like a knee injury.

If he opts out, somebody will give him the max. If you know Boston shouldn’t....then Ainge has to explore trading him now. Even if you want to give him the max....Ainge can’t really get a meaningful commitment now so has to aggressively explore all options.


Sam is totally right. The one thing that may save us from a Horford situation is Hayward's relationship with Brad. It's fine if Hayward wants to get paid more than we want to pay. And it's also fine to trade him. What we can't have happen is a surprise. We will have to max Tatum and then we don't have any money to attact a top free agent for the forseeable future. So our options are:

1. Hayward doesn't opt out. kick the can for a year, same problem next year. Probably not smart for Hayward.

2. Hayward agrees to an extention or a wink wink deal to opt out and sign a new contract with us.

3. We trade him now.

4. He **** us over by saying he will stay and then leaves. Then we have all our money tied up in Tatum, Brown Smart and Walker and are probbly not good enough to compete, so we have to think hard about trading Walker for someone on a rookie contract as a last ditch option to have money to find another max guy. Low odds it all works out and we are looking at a rebuild unless Tatum turns into Kobe.


So yeah, unless Brad and Gordon want to be BFFs and come to some kind of fair deal, we should trade him. Sadly.
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Re: MAX contract for Hayward at 2020 free agent market 

Post#58 » by Ernest » Sat Nov 9, 2019 9:48 am

Can we extend him during the season? Line up a trade and then tell him, we don't want to trade you but we can't risk you bolting, sign this and you can stay?


The other thing to consider is his health. If he gets any injury that puts him out for 10 games or so, I'd think his future contract price comes down.
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Re: MAX contract for Hayward at 2020 free agent market 

Post#59 » by sam_I_am » Sat Nov 9, 2019 11:00 am

Ernest wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
Yea for him someone who has seen what a devastating injury can do to you personally and on the court- it only makes sense for him to secure the bag. If he plays at all star level or close to all star level, a team will throw money at him and all it takes is one lousy team to over pay someone.

His 1st 2 seasons in Boston have been nightmares let’s face it, horrible injury and then just an unhappy dysfunctional & underachieving 2nd year, so hopefully this off season spending ithere and then hopefully having a great year for himself and for the team plus our loyalty we’ve shown him- he’ll remember that when it comes to negotiating but I don’t think so.

Way too early to discuss but can’t give him 40 mill max


The reason it’s not too early is that you can’t wait until June to find out he is gone. If we lose him and his max salary slot, the team is kind of screwed and will only be able to get better via rebuild or trade. He may not get a max salary offer, but he is having a career season ( the caveat: small sample size, inflated stats based on 1 great game ).

His last year in Utah he averaged 22 pts, 16 FGA, 44%/39%/84%, 5 reb., 3 asst as first option.
This year so far he has 20 ppg, 14 FGA, 55%/50%/83%, 7.5 reb, 4 asst as third option.

The odds are pretty good that he will be the premier free agent this off season. Kemba Walker just got a max at 29. Gordon will be 30 which for a 6-7 player is equivalent to 27 for a 6-1 guard. His injury is fully healed and is not a long term risk or career shortening like a knee injury.

If he opts out, somebody will give him the max. If you know Boston shouldn’t....then Ainge has to explore trading him now. Even if you want to give him the max....Ainge can’t really get a meaningful commitment now so has to aggressively explore all options.


Sam is totally right. The one thing that may save us from a Horford situation is Hayward's relationship with Brad. It's fine if Hayward wants to get paid more than we want to pay. And it's also fine to trade him. What we can't have happen is a surprise. We will have to max Tatum and then we don't have any money to attact a top free agent for the forseeable future. So our options are:

1. Hayward doesn't opt out. kick the can for a year, same problem next year. Probably not smart for Hayward.

2. Hayward agrees to an extention or a wink wink deal to opt out and sign a new contract with us.

3. We trade him now.

4. He **** us over by saying he will stay and then leaves. Then we have all our money tied up in Tatum, Brown Smart and Walker and are probbly not good enough to compete, so we have to think hard about trading Walker for someone on a rookie contract as a last ditch option to have money to find another max guy. Low odds it all works out and we are looking at a rebuild unless Tatum turns into Kobe.


So yeah, unless Brad and Gordon want to be BFFs and come to some kind of fair deal, we should trade him. Sadly.


We could sign and trade him to a team like Miami for example, if he opts out and has an offer in hand from a bad team as leverage. If is wife is really unhappy in Boston and he wants to play with JButler, he may be willing to work with Boston.

I think the feel good vibes of this team and his exceptional play make opting in or extension much more likely. I also think having 3 max wings + Kemba is working much better with bigs who aren’t so perimeter oriented like Al. Makes me very sad that Baynes had to be traded. He would be so good for this team the way he is playing.
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Re: MAX contract for Hayward at 2020 free agent market 

Post#60 » by cloverleaf » Sat Nov 9, 2019 1:36 pm

And JB's like, "Oh, noes! I don't wanna be a fourth option behind three max-caliber teammates!"

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/celtics-jaylen-brown-cant-wait-people-see-how-much-better-ive-gotten

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