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OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton

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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#61 » by Captain_Caveman » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:24 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
The incentives all fall in the ‘not likely to be earned’ and will count against next years cap if he hits them. We dont have to do any cap gymnastics


Wow, then he really had no market then. But all things being equal, wouldn’t you rather not bite into next year’s cap for a band-aid at QB during a transition year?


If it bites into next years cap, itll be because he was awesome and thus totally worth it. If not, were in the exact same spot cap wise. Its the definition of low risk, high reward.


Right. But given the choice, we'd rather not eat into next year's cap room for a transition year, no?

I'm just reading this the other way. I don't think Cam was a priority for us or anyone else. He went nearly into July without a deal, and all he could get was a minimum deal with some hard to reach incentives? This signing is an indictment on his value, not Stidham's.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#62 » by bucknersrevenge » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:38 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
Wow, then he really had no market then. But all things being equal, wouldn’t you rather not bite into next year’s cap for a band-aid at QB during a transition year?


If it bites into next years cap, itll be because he was awesome and thus totally worth it. If not, were in the exact same spot cap wise. Its the definition of low risk, high reward.


Right. But given the choice, we'd rather not eat into next year's cap room for a transition year, no?

I'm just reading this the other way. I don't think Cam was a priority for us or anyone else. He went nearly into July without a deal, and all he could get was a minimum deal with some hard to reach incentives? This signing is an indictment on his value, not Stidham's.


He was also released pretty late in the offseason. A lot of teams already had their situations kinda set. Hell I don't think they even officially released Newton until after Bridgewater was official. Then Covid. Can't work anyone out. Money's all gone. Future cap considerations in complete flux. This was a really abnormal offseason. It's tough to throw that all at his feet. Carolina kinda did him dirty waiting so long as they did to release him.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#63 » by SmartWentCrazy » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:42 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
Wow, then he really had no market then. But all things being equal, wouldn’t you rather not bite into next year’s cap for a band-aid at QB during a transition year?


If it bites into next years cap, itll be because he was awesome and thus totally worth it. If not, were in the exact same spot cap wise. Its the definition of low risk, high reward.


Right. But given the choice, we'd rather not eat into next year's cap room for a transition year, no?

I'm just reading this the other way. I don't think Cam was a priority for us or anyone else. He went nearly into July without a deal, and all he could get was a minimum deal with some hard to reach incentives? This signing is an indictment on his value, not Stidham's.


But I guess thats just it, if he eats into the cap, it means were actually competing and its not a transition year.

Also, if were using the Bears, Jags or Chargers not signing Newton as justification for him not being good, ill respond with the fact that those teams suck and their front offices are terrible.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#64 » by Captain_Caveman » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:43 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
GoCeltics123 wrote:FYI Greg Berdard, prominent Pats writer, says he's definitely going to win the job if he stays healthy and looks like himself


Lol, me, regular football fan, can tell you he already won the job unless he looks like absolute ****. The locker room will quit on the team if he looks even remotely similar to his past self and Stidham starts.


Cam has had half a season worth of good play in the past four years. Rest of the time, he was either injured or just straight booty.

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All numbers from before his body broke down.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#65 » by SmartWentCrazy » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:46 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
GoCeltics123 wrote:FYI Greg Berdard, prominent Pats writer, says he's definitely going to win the job if he stays healthy and looks like himself


Lol, me, regular football fan, can tell you he already won the job unless he looks like absolute ****. The locker room will quit on the team if he looks even remotely similar to his past self and Stidham starts.


Cam has had half a season worth of good play in the past four years. Rest of the time, he was either injured or just straight booty.

Image
Image
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All numbers from before his body broke down.


Hes been hurt for two years now— he tore his rotator cuff half way thru 18 and broke his foot in 19.Also, schematics matter. Hes about to have the best o line hes ever had and he wont take the same shots with a quick release system
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#66 » by Captain_Caveman » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:52 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Lol, me, regular football fan, can tell you he already won the job unless he looks like absolute ****. The locker room will quit on the team if he looks even remotely similar to his past self and Stidham starts.


Cam has had half a season worth of good play in the past four years. Rest of the time, he was either injured or just straight booty.

Image
Image
Image

All numbers from before his body broke down.


Hes been hurt for two years now— he tore his rotator cuff half way thru 18 and broke his foot in 19.Also, schematics matter. Hes about to have the best o line hes ever had and he wont take the same shots with a quick release system


We just lost Scarnecchia, and Cam is going to take hits regardless. Also not even a great option for a quick release system. Not a good decision maker, and doesn't avoid negative plays. His best value was in his ability to extend plays long enough to make use of his arm, and his ability to run the ball. That involves taking hits.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#67 » by SmartWentCrazy » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:01 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Lol, me, regular football fan, can tell you he already won the job unless he looks like absolute ****. The locker room will quit on the team if he looks even remotely similar to his past self and Stidham starts.


Cam has had half a season worth of good play in the past four years. Rest of the time, he was either injured or just straight booty.

Image
Image
Image

All numbers from before his body broke down.


Hes been hurt for two years now— he tore his rotator cuff half way thru 18 and broke his foot in 19.Also, schematics matter. Hes about to have the best o line hes ever had and he wont take the same shots with a quick release system


I see youre talking about before that now— to me, football analytics are real tough. Systems and personnel are so important and PFF isnt always aware of the reads designed by the play. Im less concerned with Newton not performing in a downfield risk taking system than I would be him in the short-mid distance system he played in 2018.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#68 » by SmartWentCrazy » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:04 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
Cam has had half a season worth of good play in the past four years. Rest of the time, he was either injured or just straight booty.

Image
Image
Image

All numbers from before his body broke down.


Hes been hurt for two years now— he tore his rotator cuff half way thru 18 and broke his foot in 19.Also, schematics matter. Hes about to have the best o line hes ever had and he wont take the same shots with a quick release system


We just lost Scarnecchia, and Cam is going to take hits regardless. Also not even a great option for a quick release system. Not a good decision maker, and doesn't avoid negative plays. His best value was in his ability to extend plays long enough to make use of his arm, and his ability to run the ball. That involves taking hits.


Disagree— look at his first 8 games in 18 before he tore his rotator cuff: 1900 yards, 67% completion, 15-4 TD-Int ratio.

Also, after the failure to plan for life after Scar in 2014, I’m confident we’ll be better off this time.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#69 » by ParticleMan » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:13 pm

who knows if Cam will work out but at $1.5 mil I'll take that chance. this is not some kind of AB situation where we're sinking a ton of money into a guy with known issues. Cam's only issue is staying healthy. running QBs don't last, and Cam may have run out his odometer even at age 31. but he's still got a great arm and great swagger.

this next season just got a lot more interesting. i was ready to concede a .500 learning year for stidham and get on with the rebuild. now there's at least hope that we won't have to concede our AFC east title to the... oof... bills.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#70 » by Captain_Caveman » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:17 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Hes been hurt for two years now— he tore his rotator cuff half way thru 18 and broke his foot in 19.Also, schematics matter. Hes about to have the best o line hes ever had and he wont take the same shots with a quick release system


We just lost Scarnecchia, and Cam is going to take hits regardless. Also not even a great option for a quick release system. Not a good decision maker, and doesn't avoid negative plays. His best value was in his ability to extend plays long enough to make use of his arm, and his ability to run the ball. That involves taking hits.


Disagree— look at his first 8 games in 18 before he tore his rotator cuff: 1900 yards, 67% completion, 15-4 TD-Int ratio.

Also, after the failure to plan for life after Scar in 2014, I’m confident we’ll be better off this time.


Yeah, but also look at the other 3.5 seasons since his Super Bowl year. Odds he lasts the season producing as he did in those first 8 games of 2018 are minimal IMO, especially after logging multiple significant injuries since then. FWIW, schedule was pretty weak for those 8 games. Considering that they got Baltimore just before they switched to Lamar, the best team they played was probably the Cowboys in Week 1?

IMO, if he stays healthy, Cam is probably the 25-30th best QB at best. I think Stidham can do that too, without eating into next year's cap. And he has higher upside for the future.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#71 » by bucknersrevenge » Wed Jul 1, 2020 10:09 am

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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#72 » by Tyakack » Wed Jul 1, 2020 2:31 pm

I think there's a 0% chance he doesn't start if he's healthy. The last time he was healthy he looked really good. Obviously this is a huge upgrade and our ceiling for this year just went way up. I'm actually excited for the first time in awhile.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#73 » by sully00 » Wed Jul 1, 2020 4:50 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:Is Jarrett Stidham the quarterback of the future or isn't he? Dalton signed in Dallas with the clear understanding that Dalton would be backing up Dak Prescott. What's the deal in New England? And what kind of message does this send to Stidham?


It is all about the money. The Patriots are offering an opportunity to compete for the starting job of a playoff caliber team but they can't guarantee you any money without damaging the roster. Every other team in the league is obsessed about the QB position and is willing to tie up 30-40 million a year in it. While Brady has been an embarrassment of riches while he was here the fact that he wasn't even paid like a top 10 QB is probably one of the biggest.

Dalton wanted some money guaranteed more than he was worried about whether he would start or not. Cowboys gave him 3 mil base and 7 mil if he ended up starting in Dak holdout. Pats didn't want to do that and probably knew that Newton wanted one more legit shot more than he was worried about guaranteed money for this season. Newton had plenty of suitors as a backup they just couldn't offer him a shot to take the starting job.

I think that they still view Stidham as their guy they have been concerned that he may not have the opportunity to develop in training camp due to Covid19. Bill is ready to work around a weaker QB position, he seems to feel he already has been with Brady. What he isn't going to do is throw a guy who isn't ready in there. The Idea of Hoyer as a starting QB sucked even for a couple of games. This sets up well for the Pats they haven't promised Newton anything if Stidham beats him out so be it. The Pats can go into 2020 with a team that should be able to get to the playoffs while spending less than 3 mil on the QB position.

Even healthy I don't think Newton is a run first guy anymore. He is still a big guy who is tough take down and if the shoulder is good he can make some plays. I don't they will have to change the offense dramatically between him and Stidham.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#74 » by BillTheGOAT » Wed Jul 1, 2020 5:19 pm

The NFL playoffs will expand to 14 teams in 2020. Only the number 1 seed will get a bye, and there will be 3 wildcard games. Pats definitely got a shot at making the playoffs and maybe make some noise too.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#75 » by bucknersrevenge » Wed Jul 1, 2020 5:46 pm

I'm eager to see what Mcdaniels can do with Newton's mechanics which need real refinement. Newton throws off his back foot a ton. Despite his arm talent, sometimes the ball doesn't get there with much zip. Sometimes it sails on him. His footwork is super inconsistent, his shoulders fly open. When he practices it generally looks better, but in games sometimes he rushes and gets out of those mechanics. If Josh can work with him on that among other things, I think we'll have a more consistently accurate QB.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#76 » by Homerclease » Wed Jul 1, 2020 6:00 pm

Cam is washed. Maybe they aren’t as sold on Stidham as originally thought.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#77 » by bucknersrevenge » Wed Jul 1, 2020 6:18 pm

Homerclease wrote:Cam is washed. Maybe they aren’t as sold on Stidham as originally thought.


His 2018 start pre-injury suggests otherwise. I don't know that they were ever "sold". They like Stidham. But "sold" that he's the next guy? No. That has to be earned. And Bill loves to pick up devalued talent. Especially devalued talent that torches him every time they play.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#78 » by ConstableGeneva » Wed Jul 1, 2020 6:28 pm

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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#79 » by Froob » Wed Jul 1, 2020 10:20 pm

Whether it’s Cam or Stidham, we’re in great shape. If we get 2018 Cam, we’re looking great.
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Re: OT: Patriots sign Cam Newton 

Post#80 » by BillTheGOAT » Thu Jul 2, 2020 8:11 am

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