Celtics and Clippers Deal #2 UPDATE DEAD, DEAD, DEAD

[hickfromfrenchlick]

I don't LOVE this deal -- who does? -- but for the people who are against it, tell me this: What happens if Doc quits and KG retires? We get nothing!

It's not like we're winning anything next year. And it's not like we're suddenly getting a superstar in exchange for KG. And it's not like when your coach quits you ever get anything for it.

KG for Jordan isn't bad, if we're OK with his contract. And anything for Doc is house money. He's had a great run here but he's itching to leave.

No. I'm not ok with DJs contract. I say kill the deal. Two late picks and an overpaid overhyped center isn't worth the deal to me.

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That's fine. But what exactly is so onerous about DJ's contract? It's a 2-year deal, right? I don't think anybody can name a single impact player who DJ's contract would prevent us from signing. And maybe we could use him as a chip to get a cheaper player or a pick. KG's retirement gives us absolutely nothing.

[GreenMachine]

The other problem that nobody has come to terms with because they keep wanting to make this Doc's fault and not a reality created by Danny Ainge. If this does not work out then Doc can simply so okay I am staying and don't try and trade me again and just be disinterested and miserable until they fire him and he gets all of his money anyway.

The Celtics are trying to trade him. Doc has not quit, KG did not ask to be traded at least publicly. Ainge made the call to go this route instead of sticking to his guns and now he has to see it through. I get Doc was non committal about the season Danny Ainge also quit as a coach after 20 games.

You don't know that. We have no idea what is going on. Peter Vecsey reported yesterday that Doc really wanted to leave for Brooklyn. IF that is true... it seems the writing was on the wall... Doc was leaving one way or another and DA is trying to make the best of it. This should have been obvious since the day we were eliminated and every day since Doc has refused to come out and say he wants to come back - which to me means - HE DOES'NT WANT TO COME BACK.

[sam_I_am]

Question for CBA expert like Sully:

Can LAC trade for Howard if a team with cap space signs him? For example, if Atlanta signed Howard and trade him to Clippers for Bledsoe and Jordan or Blake/Butler plus 2 picks. Seems that if Howard wanted to play with Paul and not play for Lakers that makes more sense than this Celtics deal.

[GreenMachine]

The salary dump is overrated, Boston still has to take back Butler's 8 mil, it sounds good if your dumping both Lee and Terry but why would you want to pay Butler 8 mil for one instead of Terry 10.5 for two. There really is no need to dump Lee he is only 27 years old. So moving the long term money costs you more money in the short term. Somebody will take on Terry by season's end.

You are going to get more for Butler's expiring 8 million then Terry's non-expiring 5.5 Million per. Butler is a better asset moving forward then Terry. 10 times out of ten.

[Celts17Pride]

Most of the people around here don't realize that this trade the way it is right now is literally worse than letting KG and Doc leave. U can arrange a small buyout with KG, let Doc walk and trade PP for a late 1st and expirings, we will save a lot more cash by just letting these guys walk.. Jordan is dead weight, he hasn't improved his game since like his 2nd year in the league, he wont help us with anything and that late pick in this draft could easily be a bust, it will more likely be a bust than not...

What value does this trade give us, if we aren't even dumping any salaries?? I want some of you guys to explain this to me... Yes we get younger, but I do not think this helps us now or long term..

I respectfully disagree. Celtics will play D. Jordan 35 mpg and build his value. A lot of teams will want a center averaging something like 12-13 points and 10+ rebounds with an expiring contract. Rondo will make Jordan look good.

[GreenMachine]

Question for CBA expert like Sully:

Can LAC trade for Howard if a team with cap space signs him? For example, if Atlanta signed Howard and trade him to Clippers for Bledsoe and Jordan or Blake/Butler plus 2 picks. Seems that if Howard wanted to play with Paul and not play for Lakers that makes more sense than this Celtics deal.

There would be a waiting period. And why would Atl do that? They would demand a LOT more. They would truly be in the drivers seat in that deal. They could ask for anything they wanted...

[KGboss]

And lets not forget that DJ becomes an expiring contract in the '14 offseason. Will free up more cap space down the road. I would watch him play for a year then trade him next off season.

[Gant]

Most of the people around here don't realize that this trade the way it is right now is literally worse than letting KG and Doc leave. U can arrange a small buyout with KG, let Doc walk and trade PP for a late 1st and expirings, we will save a lot more cash by just letting these guys walk.. Jordan is dead weight, he hasn't improved his game since like his 2nd year in the league, he wont help us with anything and that late pick in this draft could easily be a bust, it will more likely be a bust than not...

What value does this trade give us, if we aren't even dumping any salaries?? I want some of you guys to explain this to me... Yes we get younger, but I do not think this helps us now or long term..

Actually Jordan's PER has improved steadily since his second year. It's not too far off from KG's.

This doesn't take into account the difference in defense and leadership, but it also doesn't take into account the fact that Jordan should be able to play many more minutes, and would be less prone to injury. He even had a higher rebound percentage than Garnett last year. It's not like he's useless.

I'm not bashing KG, but he's getting up there, and at that age you never know when he might go down no matter where he plays.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

Not to hijack the thread but I have to admit as big a Doc fan I am it is disappointing what is going on. Ainge stuck by Doc when when people were calling for his head years ago. I don't understand why he signed a 5 year deal knowing full well there would be 2-3 years during the contract which this team needs to rebuild.

Anyway, have to give credit to Ainge using Doc as a trade chip. Personally I am not sure he can come back so if this deal does not happen he will end up on ESPN or TNT.

[WeLikeOurGuys]

My season ticket account person called me today saying my tickets would be cheaper for this season if I renew now lol... Something is going down

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Getting DJ and the 25th is no return at all. Less than nothing, in fact.

And can we just finish this already? I have work to do.

Yup. I agree. Didn't get a damn thing accomplished at work yesterday, and if this drags on, I probably won't get anything done today either.

And yes, Jordan and a draft pick are garbage. Just because we're trading away day-old steak and potatoes, it does not mean we have to accept a new **** sandwich back for it. I'd rather starve than eat the **** sandwich.

[AKFO]

Garnett, Terry, Lee, Doc to LAC for Jordan, Butler #25, 2013 2nd, 2015 1st.

Pierce, to Dallas for #13, Marion, Carter, (Crowder?) (Buyout or Trade Marion?)

Green to Cleveland for Casspi, Speights, 2014 1st (I've heard they're done sucking and need a SF?)

Rondo to Orlando for Harrington, Moore, 2014 1st (Buyout Harrington, 3 mill guaranteed next two years)

Draft Shabazz, Schroeder, Bullock/Withey

Sign Oden to 2 year, full MLE (2nd year mostly unguaranteed)

Get rid of Bass for ****

Find a way to get rid of Butler or Carter eventually

Tank and gather assets for next year

Schroeder / Williams / Moore

Bradley / Crawford / Bullock(?)

Carter / Muhammad / Casspi

Sullinger / Speights / Randolph / (White)

Jordan / Oden / Melo / Withey(?)

Would be a fun summer league too, and that team will be filled with assets to either develop or make a big trade or too down the road.

[Shamrock]

And lets not forget that DJ becomes an expiring contract in the '14 offseason. Will free up more cap space down the road. I would watch him play for a year then trade him next off season.

Correct, there's no excuse for him not to be 10/10 on this team. I guarantee theres a good amount of teams that will want to trade for him after next season.

[FlatearthZorro]

My season ticket account person called me today saying my tickets would be cheaper for this season if I renew now lol... Something is going down

U serious? Well it is going down. Honestly, not having PP/KG/Doc is a big deal, of course tickets will get cheaper.

[FlatearthZorro]

And lets not forget that DJ becomes an expiring contract in the '14 offseason. Will free up more cap space down the road. I would watch him play for a year then trade him next off season.

Correct, there's no excuse for him not to be 10/10 on this team. I guarantee theres a good amount of teams that will want to trade for him after next season.

With that type of free throw shooting, the Hack-A-Jordan will be something very common, not only that- 44 % FT in the regular season. So teams that wont to win, wont be that intrigued by Jordan. U basically need a line up that is build around him, cause u literally can't play him the last 5-10 mins of the game, if this changes, his value will be very high, but if he continues to airball FTs, his value will be very hard to build unless he develops some low-post game.

[sully00]

Most of the people around here don't realize that this trade the way it is right now is literally worse than letting KG and Doc leave. U can arrange a small buyout with KG, let Doc walk and trade PP for a late 1st and expirings, we will save a lot more cash by just letting these guys walk.. Jordan is dead weight, he hasn't improved his game since like his 2nd year in the league, he wont help us with anything and that late pick in this draft could easily be a bust, it will more likely be a bust than not...

What value does this trade give us, if we aren't even dumping any salaries?? I want some of you guys to explain this to me... Yes we get younger, but I do not think this helps us now or long term..

Okay so you have bought KG that costs you more money and you get nothing for it. Doc doesn't want to walk he wants his 7 mil year so he stays even though he really doesn't want to be here. Nobody makes an offer for Pierce and it is June 30th. Do you agree to give him the 15 mil?

If Danny could have gotten a first round pick and an expiring contract for PIerce he would have already been dealt.

How about Doc doesn't walk away, KG says he is coming back won't accept a trade and he is going to have ankle surgery and he will be back around Jan 1. Wasted year paying the tax.

This deal gives a starting C that actually compliments Rondo, Green, and Sullinger very well. This team is talking about drafting guys all worse than him at 16. I want two picks out of it but again in the end it has to be done. The key is getting under the luxury tax while having a competitive team so that you can utilize the rules to your advantage. Paying the luxury tax on a dead end team is a disaster. You are still close enough to make a couple of moves to get under the cap next year and even if you don't almost your whole roster is on expiring contracts.

[Shamrock]

And lets not forget that DJ becomes an expiring contract in the '14 offseason. Will free up more cap space down the road. I would watch him play for a year then trade him next off season.

Correct, there's no excuse for him not to be 10/10 on this team. I guarantee theres a good amount of teams that will want to trade for him after next season.

With that type of free throw shooting, the Hack-A-Jordan will be something very common, not only that- 44 % FT in the regular season. So teams that wont to win, wont be that intrigued by Jordan. U basically need a line up that is build around him, cause u literally can't play him the last 5-10 mins of the game, if this changes, his value will be very high, but if he continues to airball FTs, his value will be very hard to build unless he develops some low-post game.

He's gonna be a 26 yr old athletic freak on the last year of his contract. Someone will take him.

[165bows]

Most of the people around here don't realize that this trade the way it is right now is literally worse than letting KG and Doc leave. U can arrange a small buyout with KG, let Doc walk and trade PP for a late 1st and expirings, we will save a lot more cash by just letting these guys walk.. Jordan is dead weight, he hasn't improved his game since like his 2nd year in the league, he wont help us with anything and that late pick in this draft could easily be a bust, it will more likely be a bust than not...

What value does this trade give us, if we aren't even dumping any salaries?? I want some of you guys to explain this to me... Yes we get younger, but I do not think this helps us now or long term..

Actually Jordan's PER has improved steadily since his second year. It's not too far off from KG's.

This doesn't take into account the difference in defense and leadership, but it also doesn't take into account the fact that Jordan should be able to play many more minutes, and would be less prone to injury.

I'm not bashing KG, but he's getting up there, and at that age you never know when he might go down no matter where he plays.

That's the thing with Jordan, though. He hasn't ever played more minutes than even a minutes-restricted KG. I have criticized Jordan quite a bit, and it probably is getting to the point where he is becoming underrated. But he does have some real limitations. The FT shooting is one, fouling is another (looks like that is getting better, but he did average 3 fouls in 22 minutes/game against Memphis). The other is that he needs to score at the rim only, which I think it was Caveman that mentioned earlier kept him from playing extended minutes with Blake.

That would be the biggest reason for optimism, IMO. Plenty of room for a guy to score at the rim in Boston these days.

[sam_I_am]

Not sure why we need to dump Terry either. He only has 2 years left which means his expiring could be useful or he may be retired/bought out in a year. Lee is the contract we have to lose.

Of note, the worst contracts on our roster were all driven by Doc Rivers. Ray Allen was huge in game 5 and almost helped Heat to improbable rally at end like he used to do in Boston. If Doc's first call was to Ray instead of Terry, this year might have been different.

We wouldn't have Lee contact and 3 second rounders might have helped us move up in this awful draft.

[sully00]

Question for CBA expert like Sully:

Can LAC trade for Howard if a team with cap space signs him? For example, if Atlanta signed Howard and trade him to Clippers for Bledsoe and Jordan or Blake/Butler plus 2 picks. Seems that if Howard wanted to play with Paul and not play for Lakers that makes more sense than this Celtics deal.

No at least not for 6 months.