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Sam Pressti and Pat Riley think Brown is the next Vince Carter

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Re: Sam Pressti and Pat Riley think Brown is the next Vince Carter 

Post#101 » by SMTBSI » Wed Nov 2, 2016 4:12 am

jrob23 wrote:What he doesn't have is the coache's trust.

Not sure if that's not a bit of an overstatement. Smells to me like a case of simply bringing his workload/responsibilities along slowly, because there's no need to do otherwise. Focus first on fitting in, on a win-now team, and he'll gradually accrue more responsibility, and learn when to call his own number, as the season goes on.

Through three games, he's:
- 7th in minutes played (behind the core four and Rozier, and one minute behind Amir)
- T-6th in FGA (tied with Zeller, behind only the core 4)
- 5th in points scored (behind only the core four)
- 7th in USG% (ahead of Amir and Horford, and behind Mickey who doesn't really count yet w/ 8 MP and 3 FGA)
- ahead of Green on all of these but USG%

Those numbers don't really jive with:
jrob23 wrote:He's not an option when in with starters and around the 4th option with the backups


Of course, this is all tiny sample-size stuff - at this point each individual game can still throw all these numbers on their heads. Further, it's highly possible that Smart and Olynyk will both overtake him on some or all of these measures when they return (while Rozier, Amir, and Green are candidates to be overtaken).
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Re: Sam Pressti and Pat Riley think Brown is the next Vince Carter 

Post#102 » by jrob23 » Wed Nov 2, 2016 4:42 am

SMTBSI wrote:
jrob23 wrote:What he doesn't have is the coache's trust.

Not sure if that's not a bit of an overstatement. Smells to me like a case of simply bringing his workload/responsibilities along slowly, because there's no need to do otherwise. Focus first on fitting in, on a win-now team, and he'll gradually accrue more responsibility, and learn when to call his own number, as the season goes on.

Through three games, he's:
- 7th in minutes played (behind the core four and Rozier, and one minute behind Amir)
- T-6th in FGA (tied with Zeller, behind only the core 4)
- 5th in points scored (behind only the core four)
- 7th in USG% (ahead of Amir and Horford, and behind Mickey who doesn't really count yet w/ 8 MP and 3 FGA)
- ahead of Green on all of these but USG%

Those numbers don't really jive with:
jrob23 wrote:He's not an option when in with starters and around the 4th option with the backups


Of course, this is all tiny sample-size stuff - at this point each individual game can still throw all these numbers on their heads. Further, it's highly possible that Smart and Olynyk will both overtake him on some or all of these measures when they return (while Rozier, Amir, and Green are candidates to be overtaken).


None of those numbers refutes my statement that they don't run the offense through him except for 2-3 times. What I'm referring to is how they don't let him run the pick and pop/roll with the bigs off screens or run the offense through him with the 2nd unit except for a select few time. It seems to me he has the ability with his quickness to add a wrinkle by being able to beat his guy to the basket on all the above. Or, those plays you see AB and IT run where they come off a rub and pop or take it to the basket. Right now they don't use him like that. It's probably because they don't trust his jumper which is understandable. But I'd like to see those plays run and find out especially on 2nd unit because it needs a scorer and I'd rather see him get opportunities so he gets experience and learns from his mistakes. Like I said, he'll force the issue with his talent before long. When he's gotten the ball and just been his aggressive self we've seen him make plays and that's why he has numbers. But I agree, he probably loses major minutes with KO and Smart comes back and that was my point about him probably putting up more minutes and getting more production if he's on a bad team. I'm not necessarily saying they are mishandling him as much as I guess I'm impatient to see more chances given to him because he's a huge part of our future. Of course there's also a school of thought that you can't overwhelm kids or they might develop bad habits so it's a balancing act.
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Re: Sam Pressti and Pat Riley think Brown is the next Vince Carter 

Post#103 » by SMTBSI » Wed Nov 2, 2016 5:20 am

jrob23 wrote:None of those numbers refutes my statement that they don't run the offense through him except for 2-3 times. What I'm referring to is how they don't let him run the pick and pop/roll with the bigs off screens or run the offense through him with the 2nd unit except for a select few time. It seems to me he has the ability with his quickness to add a wrinkle by being able to beat his guy to the basket on all the above. Or, those plays you see AB and IT run where they come off a rub and pop or take it to the basket. Right now they don't use him like that. It's probably because they don't trust his jumper which is understandable. But I'd like to see those plays run and find out especially on 2nd unit because it needs a scorer and I'd rather see him get opportunities so he gets experience and learns from his mistakes. Like I said, he'll force the issue with his talent before long. When he's gotten the ball and just been his aggressive self we've seen him make plays and that's why he has numbers.

Understood, I guess it just doesn't concern me all that much three regular season games in (frankly, nothing concerns me all that much three games in, but, that's a different conversation). I need a little more sample size before I begin to get worried that Stevens is misusing him, as opposed to just integrating him gradually, skill by skill.

jrob23 wrote:But I agree, he probably loses major minutes with KO and Smart comes back and that was my point about him probably putting up more minutes and getting more production if he's on a bad team. I'm not necessarily saying they are mishandling him as much as I guess I'm impatient to see more chances given to him because he's a huge part of our future. Of course there's also a school of thought that you can't overwhelm kids or they might develop bad habits so it's a balancing act.

After Smart comes back, I think Brown's role will begin to clearly outstrip Rozier's. Also think he'll take over more of Green's minutes before long. I predict he'll wind up with a larger role than both of those two, plus Amir. So, the return of Smart and Olynyk shouldn't be too detrimental to his opportunities, I don't think.

I actually think it's a luxury to be able to put him into the approximately 5th-to-8th-man role for starters, and give him some time to work on earning more. I think that is a good balance, at least for the first couple months. Not buried deep on the bench of a team that's championship or bust, and not getting thrown to the wolves on a team that has nothing better going for them than to give their kids a trial by fire. Learning from professionals, integrating into a tightly knit locker room instead of trying to transcend it...

First objective: Don't be a liability on the floor.
Second objective: Become clear 1st or 2nd option off the bench.
Third objective: Steal someone's starting job.

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