The latest rumors/news after today's signings

[Smitty731]

He can post all the rumors he wants. But then he has to deal with skeptics like me until one of the rumors turns out to be true.

2 Things:

1. I don't care if you are skeptical. But you are like a damn broken record. And that record is always negative no matter the topic. Both here and the Trade board.

2. Nothing I posted today was vague at all. If anything I thought it was pretty damn specific. But my guess is you just skipped reading it and went right to your stupid shtick.

But whatever. I should have been true to my word and stuck with being done. But much like a splinter I can't get out, you've worked your way in and aggravate me. I guess you win.

[PierceFan4ever]

How high is Crowder rated over here? Imo I don't think he's more valuable than either of those Brooklyn picks. He's a good player, great defender, great leader but overall his game isn't off the chart worthy. If it's between the BK pick 18' or Crowder, I would ship Crowder for BG or Westbrook as much as it would suck to lose him, it's gonna cost us something for an all star.

[jordb2k7]

He can post all the rumors he wants. But then he has to deal with skeptics like me until one of the rumors turns out to be true.

2 Things:

1. I don't care if you are skeptical. But you are like a damn broken record. And that record is always negative no matter the topic. Both here and the Trade board.

2. Nothing I posted today was vague at all. If anything I thought it was pretty damn specific. But my guess is you just skipped reading it and went right to your stupid shtick.

But whatever. I should have been true to my word and stuck with being done. But much like a splinter I can't get out, you've worked your way in and aggravate me. I guess you win.

Smitty please don't stop again because of ONE guy. I know I speak for others when I say I'm happy to see the board active again. Whether what you post ends up becoming true or not at this point is irrelevant I enjoy getting an insight into what might happen. I don't want this guy to ruin this for the rest of us we will all ignore and not quote his posts or pay any attention to them.

These discussions can be a lot of fun and without anything else to talk about I won't visit much. Hearing these details are great and I know 99% of us here love this stuff.

[claycarver]

Maybe the answer is that if his sources have told him absolutely nothing that is concrete, he ought not to post it.

I thought your "pandering" thread was pretty useless. But the thread title was so vague, I had to click on it and read your first post before I decided I had no interest in what you were talking about there. I thought it was lame but I just left the thread without commenting and I haven't been back. You're welcome.

This thread was started by Smitty and the title is "The latest rumors/news after today's signings." Super specific thread title. Forget posting here, why the hell did you even open the link? You knew exactly what was in it and you knew you weren't interested in anything he said before you opened the thread.

[Smitty731]

He can post all the rumors he wants. But then he has to deal with skeptics like me until one of the rumors turns out to be true.

2 Things:

1. I don't care if you are skeptical. But you are like a damn broken record. And that record is always negative no matter the topic. Both here and the Trade board.

2. Nothing I posted today was vague at all. If anything I thought it was pretty damn specific. But my guess is you just skipped reading it and went right to your stupid shtick.

But whatever. I should have been true to my word and stuck with being done. But much like a splinter I can't get out, you've worked your way in and aggravate me. I guess you win.

Smitty please don't stop again because of ONE guy. I know I speak for others when I say I'm happy to see the board active again. Whether what you post ends up becoming true or not at this point is irrelevant I enjoy getting an insight into what might happen. I don't want this guy to ruin this for the rest of us we will all ignore and not quote his posts or pay any attention to them.

These discussions can be a lot of fun and without anything else to talk about I won't visit much. Hearing these details are great and I know 99% of us here love this stuff.

Nah man. The brief stop the first time was a different circumstance. That was a direct questioning of my credibility. And it was more hassle than it was worth. And it was a little childish on my part too, which I own. I just hit my breaking point that day.

This is something different entirely. Different breaking point and for entirely different reasons.

[Smitty731]

No idea to be honest. Anything I would put out there would be my opinion only. If that is what you want I think it is either in the order you have listed or swap Brown and 17 BRK.

I do know that many around the league don't think the 18 BRK pick has nearly as much value as most around here do. A lot of teams think BRK will be ok (not good, but not horrible) this year. And they think in 2017-2018 with a TON of cap space, they could jump up big time. And a few other East teams might be on downswings at that point as well.

I talked with a lot of people who said now is the time to trade the 2018 BRK pick. And I talked with slightly less who said that the 2017 BRK pick might not have the locked in value that some think it does either.

Nets roster right now:

PG: Jeremy Lin, Greivis Vasquez
SG: Bojan Bogdanovic, Randy Foye, Caris LeVert, Isaiah Whitehead, Joe Harris
SF: Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Sean Kilpatrick
PF: Luis Scola, Trevor Booker, Anthony Bennett, Chris McCullough
C: Brook Lopez, Justin Hamilton

They are screwed lol. Cap room won't likely help them much next year, either.

I really want to agree, but then I heard from so many players and agents who think so highly of Kenny Atkinson, Sean Marks and Trajan Langdon that I started to think differently. Then I looked at their cap situation and remember they have one of the richest owners in the league and one of the best markets and I started to think differently. Then I went back to a bunch of other people and the consensus is that a lot think the Nets will be much better next year. And a lot of people think they'll be at least passable this year. No one seems to think they will be Philadelphia level bad. Of course they don't need to be to have the best odds in the lottery.

[MaxwellSmart]

I think Crowder is worth more than either of the Brooklyn Picks...Those picks might be Top 8-14....No Locks to be Top 5.

[dlamb8888888]

I am pessimistic about Griffin resigning. For this reason I will be upset if Nets pick included or Cs overpay in general. We can go after Griffin and Westbrook in free agency next year with no cost other than salary.

Always easier to sign a guy you have in already and have Bird rights on than to get a FA. Two major FAs (Horford and Durant) changed teams this year and both were somewhat of an upset that they did. You always want to have a guy and re-sign him vs trying to get him later.

And having them now makes the Celtics far more likely to contend this year and then next year and beyond as well. Why not go after it when you can?

Would there be any financial incentive for Griffin or Westbrook to sign an extension this off-season if they were to be traded to the Celtics? Can they sign extensions? Would they be forfeiting millions of dollars if they signed an extension before the season starts as opposed to waiting until FA next off-season? Does anyone know? Thanks.

[claycarver]

I think Crowder is worth more than either of the Brooklyn Picks...Those picks might be Top 10-15....No Locks to be Top 5.

Wow. I just don't see how Brooklyn can be a middle of the road team this year. That roster...

All the free agents are gone. They don't have picks to trade and the only player they have to trade is Lopez. Don't see how trading him away makes them better sooner. How do they outplay 1/3 to 1/2 of the league?

[MaxwellSmart]

I think Crowder is worth more than either of the Brooklyn Picks...Those picks might be Top 10-15....No Locks to be Top 5.

Wow. I just don't see how Brooklyn can be a middle of the road team this year. That roster...

All the free agents are gone. They don't have picks to trade and the only player they have to trade is Lopez. Don't see how trading him away makes them better sooner. How do they outplay 1/3 to 1/2 of the league?

I just think that Lin/Lopez are both gonna get them some wins, they shouldn't get....We were pretty luck they sucked so bad last year.
Now if they trade Lopez and start the rebuild--then yeah, those picks are solid gold.

[dlamb8888888]

So if someone posts a rumor, I can only comment when I believe the rumor is true, but not when I don't think it is-- or in this case when I think it is so vague as to be virtually meaningless?

Why would you respond to something you thought was meaningless?

Somtimes it's useful to point out that the emperor isn't wearing an clothes.

Once again, I'm not directing criticism at Smitty, even though he thinks I am. He's reporting what he's been told. My problem is with what he's been told, which contains zero specifics as to what the Celtics might actually do.

Maybe the answer is that if his sources have told him absolutely nothing that is concrete, he ought not to post it.

I, for one, really enjoy the insight the Smitty posts on this board. I would hardly describe the information as "absolutely nothing." It's certainly more detailed information than what I've found from the lies of Sherrod, CelticsBlog, or any of the other hacks out there. He certainly brings more to this board than me or you for that matter. You seem like you're just bitter that nothing major has materialized yet. I get that. I was also really disappointed about the Durant decision, and the lack of a major trade thus far. Don't misplace your frustration toward a guy on this board who is just reporting what he is hearing. It's unnecessary.

[threrf23]

Always easier to sign a guy you have in already and have Bird rights on than to get a FA. Two major FAs (Horford and Durant) changed teams this year and both were somewhat of an upset that they did. You always want to have a guy and re-sign him vs trying to get him later.

This was the first offseason in ages where a majority of teams had enough cap space to give out max contracts - and the two, maybe three biggest FAs (ETA at least two or three of the biggest FAs) switched teams. Previously, the last time there were multiple max uFAs and a team had enough cap space to sign two of them, Bron & Bosh switched teams (albeit technically via S&T). If history is any indication, bird rights will mean relatively little next offseason IMO and having enough cap space to sign multiple max FAs will mean more. Teams will still have cap space, and the sheer size of contracts should be large enough to somewhat negate the extra money max guys can make by re-upping with their previous team; if a guy can make more than 30 mil per year and even more a year later, I am sure that is sufficient for most. If Blake is unwilling to make a commitment to us, he will likely be unwilling to make a commitment elsewhere, and another factor worth considering is that by choosing an alternate trade target (i.e. Okafor/Boogie) we can keep that alternate target while positioning ourselves to sign a guy like Blake straight up next offseason.

[Smitty731]

I am pessimistic about Griffin resigning. For this reason I will be upset if Nets pick included or Cs overpay in general. We can go after Griffin and Westbrook in free agency next year with no cost other than salary.

Always easier to sign a guy you have in already and have Bird rights on than to get a FA. Two major FAs (Horford and Durant) changed teams this year and both were somewhat of an upset that they did. You always want to have a guy and re-sign him vs trying to get him later.

And having them now makes the Celtics far more likely to contend this year and then next year and beyond as well. Why not go after it when you can?

Would there be any financial incentive for Griffin or Westbrook to sign an extension this off-season if they were to be traded to the Celtics? Can they sign extensions? Would they be forfeiting millions of dollars if they signed an extension before the season starts as opposed to waiting until FA next off-season? Does anyone know? Thanks.

If the Celtics get either player, they likely won't have the cap space to do the extension this year. That is a complicated situation and fairly rare. Eric Pincus of Basketball Insiders posted a really good, and relatively short, article on how the Harden extension when down this year.

[Smitty731]

I posted this on the Trade board, but I want to post it here too to give a little understanding of why trades can take quite a while to come together from the first time a rumor of them is put out there:

While it isn't fantasy sports in that real life trades take time to come together, I see some similarities in the process.

When you want to make a trade in fantasy, you rarely start with your best offer. You start with something lower in hopes the other guy will bite. If not, you increase it until you land to a point as far as you go. It is a game.

You lowball, they come in way higher, you both know you will meet in the middle in the end. But if you don't start at either point you wonder "Damn could I have gotten it for less?"

Having met a lot of people the past year, it isn't much different at all in real life in terms of process. What is different is that it takes more than a handful of texts and emails to get it done. These are real people with real situations. And you don't get to start over fresh the following season. You have to manage the entire processes carefully to take care of all parties involved (owners, GMs, coaches, players, agents, families of each). Making even what we determine to be a ridiculously small trade takes time. And that is before you factor in the league itself and any sort of medical sitaution.

I have gone back and forth for ages on sharing this, but I want to now for some context:

I was told by several people very close (VERY close) to the Cameron Bairstow/Spencer Dinwiddie trade (about as minor a NBA deal as you can get) that it took well over a week to come together. Both sides had lots of due diligence to do. And in that trade both players were ultimately waived by the teams that acquired them. So, if that minor of a deal took over a week, you can only imagine how long it takes for "big" trades to come together.

The one exception is at the Draft. And there is a reason several teams rarely, if ever, trade at the Draft. They aren't comfortable with the rapid fire nature. But even then, Draft day trades are often put together days or weeks in advance in theory and then executed as the Draft unfolds. I had one team tell me that they had no less than 5 or 6 options set up in advance with other teams based on various scenarios that could have happened in the Draft.

So, even when a GM says "It came together quickly." it is important to understand that is relative to how quickly a trade usually happens in the NBA.

[jordb2k7]

I posted this on the Trade board, but I want to post it here too to give a little understanding of why trades can take quite a while to come together from the first time a rumor of them is put out there:

I have gone back and forth for ages on sharing this, but I want to now for some context:

I was told by several people very close (VERY close) to the Cameron Bairstow/Spencer Dinwiddie trade (about as minor a NBA deal as you can get) that it took well over a week to come together. Both sides had lots of due diligence to do. And in that trade both players were ultimately waived by the teams that acquired them. So, if that minor of a deal took over a week, you can only imagine how long it takes for "big" trades to come together.

The one exception is at the Draft. And there is a reason several teams rarely, if ever, trade at the Draft. They aren't comfortable with the rapid fire nature. But even then, Draft day trades are often put together days or weeks in advance in theory and then executed as the Draft unfolds. I had one team tell me that they had no less than 5 or 6 options set up in advance with other teams based on various scenarios that could have happened in the Draft.


So, even when a GM says "It came together quickly." it is important to understand that is relative to how quickly a trade usually happens in the NBA.

I had no clue that it can take that long on small trades. It does go back to what Ainge said earlier this year about laying ground work for the summer. Hopefully it pays off!

[Smitty731]

Two more updates:

1. "Brown has NOT signed yet. Why not do that today when you used the rest of your cap space to re-sign Zeller and sign Green?"

2. "LAC is keeping that 15th roster spot open for a reason. And it isn't because of the looming hard cap for them. They want roster flexibility. Why do they need flexibility when they have no cap space and are close to the hard cap? Because of a potential trade."

Smitty, about that deal A you mentioned in the first page, any chance that if Ainge manages to pull that off, he'd be willing to put both BKN picks on the table for Westbrook? I really feel Presti's asking price for Westbrook is too much, and if Ainge is being pressured by Wyc then it's probably a combination of Brown + 1 BKN pick or 2 BKN picks that gets the Westbrook deal done? I'm just assuming as much since I don't see Brown's name being mentioned in the Griffin rumors so he's probably headed to OKC if he's being shipped out.

No idea. I do know that OKC is high on Brown. And they need a SF so...

[Froob]

Smitty has turned the dog days of summer into an F5 craze. Love reading about the procedural stuff too and how the NBA works.

[Froob]

Two more updates:

1. "Brown has NOT signed yet. Why not do that today when you used the rest of your cap space to re-sign Zeller and sign Green?"

2. "LAC is keeping that 15th roster spot open for a reason. And it isn't because of the looming hard cap for them. They want roster flexibility. Why do they need flexibility when they have no cap space and are close to the hard cap? Because of a potential trade."

Smitty, about that deal A you mentioned in the first page, any chance that if Ainge manages to pull that off, he'd be willing to put both BKN picks on the table for Westbrook? I really feel Presti's asking price for Westbrook is too much, and if Ainge is being pressured by Wyc then it's probably a combination of Brown + 1 BKN pick or 2 BKN picks that gets the Westbrook deal done? I'm just assuming as much since I don't see Brown's name being mentioned in the Griffin rumors so he's probably headed to OKC if he's being shipped out.

No idea. I do know that OKC is high on Brown. And they need a SF so...

In a weird way, the fact that Presti really likes Brown makes me super hesistant to trade him. I think Ainge is a real good drafter but, Presti is great. If Presti think he's good, odds are this kid is a stud.

[TheMartian]

Two more updates:

1. "Brown has NOT signed yet. Why not do that today when you used the rest of your cap space to re-sign Zeller and sign Green?"

2. "LAC is keeping that 15th roster spot open for a reason. And it isn't because of the looming hard cap for them. They want roster flexibility. Why do they need flexibility when they have no cap space and are close to the hard cap? Because of a potential trade."

Smitty, about that deal A you mentioned in the first page, any chance that if Ainge manages to pull that off, he'd be willing to put both BKN picks on the table for Westbrook? I really feel Presti's asking price for Westbrook is too much, and if Ainge is being pressured by Wyc then it's probably a combination of Brown + 1 BKN pick or 2 BKN picks that gets the Westbrook deal done? I'm just assuming as much since I don't see Brown's name being mentioned in the Griffin rumors so he's probably headed to OKC if he's being shipped out.

No idea. I do know that OKC is high on Brown. And they need a SF so...

Totally forgot that it was Riley AND Presti who were the other 2 GMs really high on Brown. I just hope that if Brown is being traded for Westbrook, Danny decides to keep the BKN '17 pick. I'm really worried Danny is about to give up all the BKN picks from 2016 to 2018 for a possible 1 year rental of Westbrook.

[Smitty731]

Smitty, about that deal A you mentioned in the first page, any chance that if Ainge manages to pull that off, he'd be willing to put both BKN picks on the table for Westbrook? I really feel Presti's asking price for Westbrook is too much, and if Ainge is being pressured by Wyc then it's probably a combination of Brown + 1 BKN pick or 2 BKN picks that gets the Westbrook deal done? I'm just assuming as much since I don't see Brown's name being mentioned in the Griffin rumors so he's probably headed to OKC if he's being shipped out.

No idea. I do know that OKC is high on Brown. And they need a SF so...

In a weird way, the fact that Presti really likes Brown makes me super hesistant to trade him. I think Ainge is a real good drafter but, Presti is great. If Presti think he's good, odds are this kid is a stud.

That is a funny because a bunch of people told me they expect Domantas Sabonis (who I am irrational about as being awesome) will be an All-Star simply because Presti handpicked him in that trade. So, you might be on to something!