Around the NBA (3.0), 2018-19 (Non-Celtics Talk)

[SmartWentCrazy]

I wouldn't compare any of those other years with this one. Kawhi wasn't there. That alone makes this team non comparable to any past toronto teams.

Kawhi or no Kawhi..it's the same story. The rest of the chokers are still all there. Results will be similar. This is a team that plays at 100% of it's talent and effort level during the regular season. They are intense. But that's it..They don't have an extra gear in the playoffs where every other serious contender does.

just a reminder - the raptors are 4-0 in the playoffs the last 3 seasons against non-lebron teams. the issue is that lebron owns them mentally. but they've won every other series they should've. and they beat both the bucks and wiz in game 6's on the road. brackets work out different and they are ecf's 3 years in a row.

Pretty much everything you just said could apply to the Celtics the past two years. Were 4-0 vs non-LeBron teams in the post season. We’ve beaten both the Bucks and the Wizards [albeit in 7 as opposed to 6, though the 16-17 Wizards were better than the 17-18 and the 17-18 Bucks were better than the 16-17 Bucks].

Guess what? It means nothing, unfortunately enough.

[djsunyc]

Kawhi or no Kawhi..it's the same story. The rest of the chokers are still all there. Results will be similar. This is a team that plays at 100% of it's talent and effort level during the regular season. They are intense. But that's it..They don't have an extra gear in the playoffs where every other serious contender does.

just a reminder - the raptors are 4-0 in the playoffs the last 3 seasons against non-lebron teams. the issue is that lebron owns them mentally. but they've won every other series they should've. and they beat both the bucks and wiz in game 6's on the road. brackets work out different and they are ecf's 3 years in a row.

Pretty much everything you just said could apply to the Celtics the past two years. Were 4-0 vs non-LeBron teams in the post season. We’ve beaten both the Bucks and the Wizards [albeit in 7 as opposed to 6, though the 16-17 Wizards were better than the 17-18 and the 17-18 Bucks were better than the 16-17 Bucks].

Guess what? It means nothing, unfortunately enough.

the post was a response to BRUNiNHO91's view that the raptors don't have an extra gear in the playoffs and they are just a regular season team. nothing to do with the celtics.

[SmartWentCrazy]

just a reminder - the raptors are 4-0 in the playoffs the last 3 seasons against non-lebron teams. the issue is that lebron owns them mentally. but they've won every other series they should've. and they beat both the bucks and wiz in game 6's on the road. brackets work out different and they are ecf's 3 years in a row.

Pretty much everything you just said could apply to the Celtics the past two years. Were 4-0 vs non-LeBron teams in the post season. We’ve beaten both the Bucks and the Wizards [albeit in 7 as opposed to 6, though the 16-17 Wizards were better than the 17-18 and the 17-18 Bucks were better than the 16-17 Bucks].

Guess what? It means nothing, unfortunately enough.

the post was a response to BRUNiNHO91's view that the raptors don't have an extra gear in the playoffs and they are just a regular season team. nothing to do with the celtics.

Okay, and I disagree with your argument that beating non-LeBron teams proves that you have an extra gear. Many teams can [and have] beat non-LeBron teams in the playoffs— that is nothing special and not indicative of an extra gear.

FWIW, I’m not entirely sure how Kawhi changes everything. Having an elite ISO option definitely helps a ton, but its incredibly tough to quantify. Youre absolutely scarier this season come play-off time, however— thats not really debatable.

[JR Hawks]

Toronto took a risk with Kawhi and it paid off big time. Celtics fans need to admit that.

[djsunyc]

Pretty much everything you just said could apply to the Celtics the past two years. Were 4-0 vs non-LeBron teams in the post season. We’ve beaten both the Bucks and the Wizards [albeit in 7 as opposed to 6, though the 16-17 Wizards were better than the 17-18 and the 17-18 Bucks were better than the 16-17 Bucks].

Guess what? It means nothing, unfortunately enough.

the post was a response to BRUNiNHO91's view that the raptors don't have an extra gear in the playoffs and they are just a regular season team. nothing to do with the celtics.

Okay, and I disagree with your argument that beating non-LeBron teams proves that you have an extra gear. Many teams can [and have] beat non-LeBron teams in the playoffs— that is nothing special and not indicative of an extra gear.

FWIW, I’m not entirely sure how Kawhi changes everything. Having an elite ISO option definitely helps a ton, but its incredibly tough to quantify. Youre absolutely scarier this season come play-off time, however— thats not really debatable.

yeah, alot of time between now and playoffs. raptors biggest issue was the drop off in derozan's play in the post season. he would play so much worse than his regular season #'s - we just needed him to be in the area of it but the drop off was too drastic. the hope now is that there won't be a drop off from kawhi and he brings defense - something derozan simply could not do. that's the biggest (and hopeful) change in dynamic.

[celticfan42487]

Yeah the "Raptors have beaten every non LeBron team" is about the epitomy of stupidity for a statement.

It means absolutetly nothing, if last year's Celtics team faced last year's Raptors team in the playoffs they would have folded and curled into a ball in 5 instead of 4.

The core is rotten, the team folds, same team that got beaten by the Wizards.

Let go of your stupid stupid stupid arguments that have no foundations in anything.


What's worse is there is reason to believe in this year's Raptors teams specifically because it IS NOT the same trash core they had.

This year's team is lead by Kawhi and driven by the emergence of what is probably the Most Improved Player in Siakam, and what is looking to be the most valuable 3 and D guy in the league in Green. It's a team that's stomping on the league and has the best record in the NBA.

The entire argument for this team is it's not that trash core of previous years that "only lost to LeBron". Jesus what a dumb statement, LeBron was always the silver medal team too, if you didn't lose to him they wouldn't even play the Finals they'd just cancel it and give it to the Warriors because what's the point.



But yeah they did great for those 3 quarters last night. Thought the Raps were going to put a statement game on the Warriors. But I should have know the Warriors are teh Warriors and they're not even trying. Super concerning that they brough it to OT without Green or Curry and being down something like 15 points after the first and down double digits somewhere around midway point of the third.


No reason to watch the Finals again this year, and the playoffs will be dull if you're not a fan of one of the teams in it. Stupid **** Warriors, stupid **** Durant. He's made the NBA seasons little better than a simulation with cheat codes on for only one team.

[celticfan42487]

Toronto took a risk with Kawhi and it paid off big time. Celtics fans need to admit that.

Ainge needs to admit that (obviously not publicly) but he let a 26 year old MVP be traded away for a perennial choker and trash playoff player in Derozen and a backup C.

When for at least 5-6 years he's had too many assets to roster on his team.

He let Cousins get traded for what was it an at the time failed high draft pick, Kawhi go for an "eh" Rip Hamilton level player.

Even if he went in on Cousins and he got hurt at least that's going for it.

Butler went for a 3 and D role player.

At some point you actually have to cash in your assets or you **** up. And that point might be now with the Kings being a .500 team and the Grizzles on pace to win 50 games. Our era of high level rebuilding assets may have disappeared. All while watching at least 3 all-star level talents and at the time arguably MVP level talents in Cousins and AD go for absolute pig **** value.

At least Ainge when he saw that IT had a career ending injury fliped a Nets pick for a soon to be free agent Irving after he made a trade request.

We at least did it once. Should have done it twice if not more times between George, Cousins, Kawhi, Butler. This is the modern NBA. Hell Irving will probably demand a 1+1 contract. It is what it is, you can't expect to lock guys up after their restricted free agency contract anymore you can only hope you do. And you have to hope you're locking up a Kawhi or Anythony Davis and not a Hayward or Horford (but market value is market value so it is what it is if you lock up fringe all-star talent instead of MVP talent).

[denmuscles]

Toronto took a risk with Kawhi and it paid off big time. Celtics fans need to admit that.

Ainge needs to admit that (obviously not publicly) but he let a 26 year old MVP be traded away for a perennial choker and trash playoff player in Derozen and a backup C.

When for at least 5-6 years he's had too many assets to roster on his team.

He let Cousins get traded for what was it an at the time failed high draft pick, Kawhi go for an "eh" Rip Hamilton level player.

Even if he went in on Cousins and he got hurt at least that's going for it.

Butler went for a 3 and D role player.

At some point you actually have to cash in your assets or you **** up. And that point might be now with the Kings being a .500 team and the Grizzles on pace to win 50 games. Our era of high level rebuilding assets may have disappeared. All while watching at least 3 all-star level talents and at the time arguably MVP level talents in Cousins and AD go for absolute pig **** value.

At least Ainge when he saw that IT had a career ending injury fliped a Nets pick for a soon to be free agent Irving after he made a trade request.

We at least did it once. Should have done it twice if not more times between George, Cousins, Kawhi, Butler. This is the modern NBA. Hell Irving will probably demand a 1+1 contract. It is what it is, you can't expect to lock guys up after their restricted free agency contract anymore you can only hope you do. And you have to hope you're locking up a Kawhi or Anythony Davis and not a Hayward or Horford (but market value is market value so it is what it is if you lock up fringe all-star talent instead of MVP talent).

I’ve been calling on Ainges head for a while not but some people in here are too sensitive.

Let us enjoy broken Jaylen Brown and the rest of our mediocre team that Danny refused to give up for studs like Butler and Kawhi.

Watching teams like Bucks, 76ers and Toronto kills me. All 3 have REAL mvp caliber players and what the hell do we have ? Now that I look at it, this entire rebuilt has been 50-50. Stay somewhat relevant but won’t win anything. I hope Danny Ainge realizes that being greedy will bite you in the rear end.

We can FORGET about finals or ECF until we get a true top 5 mvp type of player. And YES I’d trade Irving/Tatum/Jaylen and whoever else they want for AD. Give me a guy that can put up 40 on any given night. If we don’t land AD if he becomes available, and Brown/Tatum turn out to be nothing SPECIAL then Ainge should be relieved of his duties. As of now Brown is a BUST period. And Tatum thinks he is Kobe. I will give Irving credit but he is not the leader. He cant carry a team
On his back constantly. He can say whatever he wants but LeBron was his dad in Cleveland.

As much as I want this team to succeed and play well I also want them to continue this poor play until the ownership realizes that Danny is not the right man for the job anymore.

Yes, FIRE DANNY AINGE I said it.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Toronto took a risk with Kawhi and it paid off big time. Celtics fans need to admit that.

Ainge needs to admit that (obviously not publicly) but he let a 26 year old MVP be traded away for a perennial choker and trash playoff player in Derozen and a backup C.

When for at least 5-6 years he's had too many assets to roster on his team.

He let Cousins get traded for what was it an at the time failed high draft pick, Kawhi go for an "eh" Rip Hamilton level player.

Even if he went in on Cousins and he got hurt at least that's going for it.

Butler went for a 3 and D role player.

At some point you actually have to cash in your assets or you **** up. And that point might be now with the Kings being a .500 team and the Grizzles on pace to win 50 games. Our era of high level rebuilding assets may have disappeared. All while watching at least 3 all-star level talents and at the time arguably MVP level talents in Cousins and AD go for absolute pig **** value.

At least Ainge when he saw that IT had a career ending injury fliped a Nets pick for a soon to be free agent Irving after he made a trade request.

We at least did it once. Should have done it twice if not more times between George, Cousins, Kawhi, Butler. This is the modern NBA. Hell Irving will probably demand a 1+1 contract. It is what it is, you can't expect to lock guys up after their restricted free agency contract anymore you can only hope you do. And you have to hope you're locking up a Kawhi or Anythony Davis and not a Hayward or Horford (but market value is market value so it is what it is if you lock up fringe all-star talent instead of MVP talent).

Danny did go after all of those guys though, with the main exception of Cousins, who has yet to show that he can contribute to winning. The Pels played better after he got injured, so much that they didn't even bother offering him a serious contract. Think about that for a second - New Orleans, who is living in fear of Anthony Davis wanting out at some point, let the team's "second best player" leave for nothing.

George, Kawhi, Butler - Ainge called about all of those guys. AInge had a deal with the Pacers before they went out and got a better one from OKC. Chicago wanted too much for Butler. And Kawhi was adamant that he did not want to re-sign in Boston, so Ainge refused to part with any of his good assets. Ainge and Zarren have been spot on with his player and asset valuations over the years. The only hand we can really accuse him of overplaying right now might be not dealing Rozier over the summer while his value was sky-high.

[Grooverider]

denmuscles is not a Celtics fan. He is an annoying troll. We are all too sensitive because he thinks Danny Ainge should be fired. We can forget about the ECF even though we got there last year with a broken ass team. The Bucks and Raptors are "powerhouses"..I mean seriously? 21 games in, let's throw in the towel for the season. **** sake.

[denmuscles]

denmuscles is not a Celtics fan. He is an annoying troll. We are all too sensitive because he thinks Danny Ainge should be fired. We can forget about the ECF even though we got there last year with a broken ass team. The Bucks and Raptors are "powerhouses"..I mean seriously? 21 games in, let's throw in the towel for the season. **** sake.

I am a fan. Just happen to be realistic one. Not delusional or homer. Thats all brother. Our team sucks period

[Edug27]

So much this.

We have the 9th best net rating in the league, with a firmly positive point differential. People keep equating us with Houston and Utah, but both have substantially negative point differentials [significantly worse than our own].

Were a good team that has underperformed relative to expectations. But were still a good team, unlike Houston or Utah.

Not debating that. All I said was Dubs would beat us up without Curry.

They wouldn't though. Not even close.

Disagree.. but either way, it's not important. Would have loved for the Raps to take that L last night. Lol.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

denmuscles is not a Celtics fan. He is an annoying troll. We are all too sensitive because he thinks Danny Ainge should be fired. We can forget about the ECF even though we got there last year with a broken ass team. The Bucks and Raptors are "powerhouses"..I mean seriously? 21 games in, let's throw in the towel for the season. **** sake.

I am a fan. Just happen to be realistic one. Not delusional or homer. Thats all brother. Our team sucks period

Lol, no you ARE delusional. Fire Danny Ainge? You do realize that the guy has gotten 3 different teams to the ECF within 7 years right?

2012 - Rondo/Ray/Pierce/Bass/KG
2017 - IT/Bradley/Crowder/Johnson/Horford
2018 - Rozier/Brown/Morris/Horford/Baynes

He tore down the 2012 team completely after the 2013 season, got the team flush with assets and back in to the ECF in 2017, and gutted that team except for a few pieces and got them back in 2018, despite missing 2 starter in the playoffs. But yeah, go ahead and root for this team to fail, just so they can "FIRE DANNY AINGE"!!!

[Coco Costanza]

The core is rotten, the team folds, same team that got beaten by the Wizards.

Only two players from that Raptors team are still around, Lowry and Valanciunas.

[denmuscles]

denmuscles is not a Celtics fan. He is an annoying troll. We are all too sensitive because he thinks Danny Ainge should be fired. We can forget about the ECF even though we got there last year with a broken ass team. The Bucks and Raptors are "powerhouses"..I mean seriously? 21 games in, let's throw in the towel for the season. **** sake.

I am a fan. Just happen to be realistic one. Not delusional or homer. Thats all brother. Our team sucks period

Lol, no you ARE delusional. Fire Danny Ainge? You do realize that the guy has gotten 3 different teams to the ECF within 7 years right?

2012 - Rondo/Ray/Pierce/Bass/KG
2017 - IT/Bradley/Crowder/Johnson/Horford
2018 - Rozier/Brown/Morris/Horford/Baynes

He tore down the 2012 team completely after the 2013 season, got the team flush with assets and back in to the ECF in 2017, and gutted that team except for a few pieces and got them back in 2018, despite missing 2 starter in the playoffs. But yeah, go ahead and root for this team to fail, just so they can "FIRE DANNY AINGE"!!!

Where’s the credit to Doc and Brad ? I will see you in March buddy. You’ll change your tune.

[CeltsfaninDC]

denmuscles is not a Celtics fan. He is an annoying troll. We are all too sensitive because he thinks Danny Ainge should be fired. We can forget about the ECF even though we got there last year with a broken ass team. The Bucks and Raptors are "powerhouses"..I mean seriously? 21 games in, let's throw in the towel for the season. **** sake.

I put him on my ignore list long ago... good decision I think

Who was proposing bringing on Dwight Howard?
https://deadspin.com/dwight-howard-needs-a-buttectomy-1830770589

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

I am a fan. Just happen to be realistic one. Not delusional or homer. Thats all brother. Our team sucks period

Lol, no you ARE delusional. Fire Danny Ainge? You do realize that the guy has gotten 3 different teams to the ECF within 7 years right?

2012 - Rondo/Ray/Pierce/Bass/KG
2017 - IT/Bradley/Crowder/Johnson/Horford
2018 - Rozier/Brown/Morris/Horford/Baynes

He tore down the 2012 team completely after the 2013 season, got the team flush with assets and back in to the ECF in 2017, and gutted that team except for a few pieces and got them back in 2018, despite missing 2 starter in the playoffs. But yeah, go ahead and root for this team to fail, just so they can "FIRE DANNY AINGE"!!!

Where’s the credit to Doc and Brad ? I will see you in March buddy. You’ll change your tune.

Who hired Doc and Brad?

[celticfan42487]

Toronto took a risk with Kawhi and it paid off big time. Celtics fans need to admit that.

Ainge needs to admit that (obviously not publicly) but he let a 26 year old MVP be traded away for a perennial choker and trash playoff player in Derozen and a backup C.

When for at least 5-6 years he's had too many assets to roster on his team.

He let Cousins get traded for what was it an at the time failed high draft pick, Kawhi go for an "eh" Rip Hamilton level player.

Even if he went in on Cousins and he got hurt at least that's going for it.

Butler went for a 3 and D role player.

At some point you actually have to cash in your assets or you **** up. And that point might be now with the Kings being a .500 team and the Grizzles on pace to win 50 games. Our era of high level rebuilding assets may have disappeared. All while watching at least 3 all-star level talents and at the time arguably MVP level talents in Cousins and AD go for absolute pig **** value.

At least Ainge when he saw that IT had a career ending injury fliped a Nets pick for a soon to be free agent Irving after he made a trade request.

We at least did it once. Should have done it twice if not more times between George, Cousins, Kawhi, Butler. This is the modern NBA. Hell Irving will probably demand a 1+1 contract. It is what it is, you can't expect to lock guys up after their restricted free agency contract anymore you can only hope you do. And you have to hope you're locking up a Kawhi or Anythony Davis and not a Hayward or Horford (but market value is market value so it is what it is if you lock up fringe all-star talent instead of MVP talent).

Danny did go after all of those guys though, with the main exception of Cousins, who has yet to show that he can contribute to winning. The Pels played better after he got injured, so much that they didn't even bother offering him a serious contract. Think about that for a second - New Orleans, who is living in fear of Anthony Davis wanting out at some point, let the team's "second best player" leave for nothing.

George, Kawhi, Butler - Ainge called about all of those guys. AInge had a deal with the Pacers before they went out and got a better one from OKC. Chicago wanted too much for Butler. And Kawhi was adamant that he did not want to re-sign in Boston, so Ainge refused to part with any of his good assets. Ainge and Zarren have been spot on with his player and asset valuations over the years. The only hand we can really accuse him of overplaying right now might be not dealing Rozier over the summer while his value was sky-high.

Where Cousins is concerened his injury has about as bad as a track record as you can get for a player returning. No one knows if he'll be any good the rest of his career, and it's only compounded by him being a legit big man.

His time being good at all may have ended that night. That injury has that bad of a reputation.

So I wouldn't take the potentially career ending surgery market value as his value of him as a player before then.

Before he got hurt people were heralding him as the best Center in the NBA due to how well he was playing.

As for the Butler trade, I didn't even recall about the CHI time, I was speaking on the MIN Butler trade.

At least with LaVine and Dunn you had a broken player and a bust trading for him...hmm okay fair point his value wasn't much back then either. Ainge should have gotten him one of those times. But I'm going to guess maybe the CHI trade one might of made clearing the cap space for a max slot difficult? That may have been the year we let Kelly 0 walk for nothing to get the cap space, ect.

[Disinformation]

So.

If Durant says he wants out, which imo would stop that cupcake stuff especially if he managed to beat hs in the finals, would you trade hayward and something for durant?

Sent from my LG-H831 using RealGM mobile app

[denmuscles]

Lol, no you ARE delusional. Fire Danny Ainge? You do realize that the guy has gotten 3 different teams to the ECF within 7 years right?

2012 - Rondo/Ray/Pierce/Bass/KG
2017 - IT/Bradley/Crowder/Johnson/Horford
2018 - Rozier/Brown/Morris/Horford/Baynes

He tore down the 2012 team completely after the 2013 season, got the team flush with assets and back in to the ECF in 2017, and gutted that team except for a few pieces and got them back in 2018, despite missing 2 starter in the playoffs. But yeah, go ahead and root for this team to fail, just so they can "FIRE DANNY AINGE"!!!

Where’s the credit to Doc and Brad ? I will see you in March buddy. You’ll change your tune.

Who hired Doc and Brad?

Besides Tatum and Jefferson what other draft picks did he do well ? Jaylen Brown ? Do you realize half of his picks are already out of the league