2025 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 – Capture the Flagg

[Curmudgeon]

This is a pretty good verbiage to describe what I've been trying to say. Basically the combination of size, movement and versatility is the key in the game today.

Size, movement and versatility was the key to the game in 1960.

[djFan71]

Free to Read: Athletic's Sam Vecenie Draft Guide: TOP 100 Rankings, player profiles
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6414203/2025/06/10/nba-draft-guide-2025-top-100-prospects-cooper-flagg/

Top 20 at the website. Report downloadable with free password for entire report. Assume this report will go behind a paywall at some point. Right now, it is free to read.

Here are Vecenies's 28-40 rated prospects:

28. Ben Saraf
29. Hugo Gonzalez
30. Asa Newell
31. Maxime Raynaud
32. Kam Jones
33. Rasheer Fleming
34. Drake Powell
35. John Tonje
36. Tyrese Proctor
37. Alex Toohey
38. Sion James
39. Alijah Martin
40. Johni Broome

I like that section. Have just been starting to look at Martin. Insanely in depth PDF.

Dumb to pick at typos, but this cracked me up on Fleming: "Massive human. He's 6 feet 25 without shoes"

This is a pretty good verbiage to describe what I've been trying to say. Basically the combination of size, movement and versatility is the key in the game today.

As I’ve covered the draft and NBA as a whole, I’ve also started to adjust what I look for in players and the kinds of players who tend to be valuable to me as an evaluator. For instance, this year, you will not find a single player in my lottery who is under 6-foot-4 without shoes, with V.J. Edgecombe ending up as the smallest. In today’s NBA, it’s just exceptionally difficult to be small while providing value. Essentially, smaller lead creators need to either hit All-Star status or risk turning into bench players, as many of them are defensive liabilities. What I value is finding players who can dribble, pass, shoot and defend, all while doing so with positional size. Those are the guys in the modern NBA who have value. Can you achieve the responsibilities of your role on defense? Can you hit shots and force defenses to stay in rotation when you play off the ball? Can you create your own shot and threaten defenses? And can you process the game at a high enough level to make quick decisions, space the court off the ball and make high-level passing reads when you have the ball? Precious few players are going to achieve all of these tasks. But finding those skills is the baseline goal.

I agree with that as well, overall. Processing is the one that some of my guys (Fleming) are scaring me on. I may/not have Penda higher now. Can you learn to process better, sure, but can Rasheer make up enough of the gap, coupled with his athleticism to come out overall ahead of Penda? idk. Obv, different positions, but you get the point.

The one recent exception I've added is with herky-jerky guards. Sure, it'd be great to have a herky-jerky, 6'6" guard like SGA, but can Clayton be a Brunson type??? I don't particularly value small guards at all, but he's not THAT small, and if you can get your shot off, you can get your shot off. But, even then, I wonder if the defensive side outweights it overall.

[redslastlaugh]

Leading with the parents cracked me up too. Literal first line for Fleming: "Mother is Dana." Great, lol.

yea, exactly
"Here is Alex Toohey whose parents met in an airport in Sydney and conceived the 6-9 forward in the cramped backseat of a Volkswagon bug"
lol... too funny

[Celts17Pride]

In my opinion the Celtics shouldn't pass on Rasheer Fleming if he is available at #28. I just don't think he will be there.

[djFan71]

In my opinion the Celtics shouldn't pass on Rasheer Fleming if he is available at #28. I just don't think he will be there.

Definitely not. And probably not. It won't happen, but if Clayton, Fleming and Penda are all there, I might have issues deciding, lol. I probably go in that order, though.

[165bows]

This is a pretty good verbiage to describe what I've been trying to say. Basically the combination of size, movement and versatility is the key in the game today.

Size, movement and versatility was the key to the game in 1960.

I'll take your word for it but in 1997 people would have seen Drake Powell's combine numbers and he would have been a top-10 draft pick.

[djFan71]

Tankathon updated yesterday. Kalk at 28, Powell at 32. Run from 20-27 is depressing, lol
https://tankathon.com/mock_draft

[djFan71]

Ringer updated too. Raynaud. https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft

[Hal14]

Yeah this draft guide by Vecenie is really impressive how in depth and detailed it is, wow.

Wonder if he'll get hired by an NBA team at some point..

Adam Spinella the box and one scouting video guy (who later became co-host of Vecenie's podcast) got hired by the Sixers. Mike Schmitz went from ESPN's draft guru to getting hired by Portland..

[redslastlaugh]

Is your big board rankings done with the Celtics specifically in mind or just if you were starting with a blank slate roster?
You have CMB so high, but doesnt seem Boston would view him highly given his crap shooting numbers.

Of the consensus top 8 or so, Ace Bailey seems like he has the highest bust potential. If he were to slip on draft night to the 9-12 range and the Celtics were in a position to trade up, would you take a swing on him? Or is Boston with JT coming back next yr, if we're gonna trade up we would have to take a higher floor prospect because we dont have time in Jay's title window to take a big swing and miss. I wouldn't take the risk on Ace.

My updated big board..

Read on Twitter

[djFan71]

Yeah this draft guide by Vecenie is really impressive how in depth and detailed it is, wow.

Wonder if he'll get hired by an NBA team at some point..

Adam Spinella the box and one scouting video guy (who later became co-host of Vecenie's podcast) got hired by the Sixers. Mikr Schmitz went from ESPN's draft guru to getting hired by Portland..

It's actually kinda crazy he's giving it away. The password is needed every time you open the PDF, FYI. Make sure to save it.

[Smart2Nesmith43]

Leading with the parents cracked me up too. Literal first line for Fleming: "Mother is Dana." Great, lol.

yea, exactly
"Here is Alex Toohey whose parents met in an airport in Sydney and conceived the 6-9 forward in the cramped backseat of a Volkswagon bug"
lol... too funny

It's incredibly unfair because nobody chooses their family but the people that surround you growing up absolutely have a huge impact in shaping who you are as a person and a basketball player and as such it's relevant info. Frankly probably more so than the absence/presence of a granular skill that can always get picked up later if the player has the drive to improve. Drop Morant in a family where his father isn't enabling the wost parts of his personality and I think his career turns out very differently. Don't you ?

[Hal14]

Is your big board rankings done with the Celtics specifically in mind or just if you were starting with a blank slate roster?
You have CMB so high, but doesnt seem Boston would view him highly given his crap shooting numbers.

Of the consensus top 8 or so, Ace Bailey seems like he has the highest bust potential. If he were to slip on draft night to the 9-12 range and the Celtics were in a position to trade up, would you take a swing on him? Or is Boston with JT coming back next yr, if we're gonna trade up we would have to take a higher floor prospect because we dont have time in Jay's title window to take a big swing and miss. I wouldn't take the risk on Ace.

My updated big board..

Read on Twitter

No, I don't make more big board with the Celtics in mind.

Re: Ace. He's going to go in the top 10 picks. I doubt we trade up that high but I suppose if we trade up and into the 3-10 range and he's there, we might take him..I'd be pretty surprised if we trade up that high and if we did, I would think it's to get one of the studs like Flagg or Harper..

[redslastlaugh]

No, I don't make more big board with the Celtics in mind.

Re: Ace. He's going to go in the top 10 picks. I doubt we trade up that high but I suppose if we trade up and into the 3-10 range and he's there, we might take him..I'd be pretty surprised if we trade up that high and if we did, I would think it's to get one of the studs like Flagg or Harper..

What about Thomas Sorber? You seem quite a bit lower on him than consensus. do you have injury concerns given he's a big guy who had, whatever it was, a fracture in his foot?, or are you down on his ability to guard the perimeter or make outside shots? He seems at his age and feel, like he should be 10-20 range, to me anyway.

[Smart2Nesmith43]

First batch of invites to the green room:
Cooper Flagg
Dylan Harper
Ace Bailey
VJ Edgecombe
Tre Johnson
Khaman Maluach
Jeremiah Fears
Kon Knueppel
Kasparas Jakucionis
Egor Demin
Carter Bryant
Derik Queen
Asa Newell

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2025/06/nba-invites-13-prospects-to-draft-green-room.html

Those are the guys NBA execs expect to be off the board first so it's highly unlikely any will be left where the Celtics pick. This matches the mock drafts pretty closely so no real shock here but anybody hoping for Newell to last to 28 will probably be in for a rude awakening.

[djFan71]

Leading with the parents cracked me up too. Literal first line for Fleming: "Mother is Dana." Great, lol.

yea, exactly
"Here is Alex Toohey whose parents met in an airport in Sydney and conceived the 6-9 forward in the cramped backseat of a Volkswagon bug"
lol... too funny

It's incredibly unfair because nobody chooses their family but the people that surround you growing up absolutely have a huge impact in shaping who you are as a person and a basketball player and as such it's relevant info. Frankly probably more so than the absence/presence of a granular skill that can always get picked up later if the player has the drive to improve. Drop Morant in a family where his father isn't enabling the wost parts of his personality and I think his career turns out very differently. Don't you ?

Sure, but both of the quoted sentences are still funny when they stand alone. Just trying to have a little fun. Not saying it's not pertinent to them as a person, just that it's a couple funny sentences. Character is probably one of the most difficult things to judge in the draft process. Jaylen Brown without his work ethic is a bust. Zion with a better one is a HOF'er. But, stating that Rasheer's mom's name is Dana as the literal first sentence in his eval is funny.

[redslastlaugh]

yea, exactly
"Here is Alex Toohey whose parents met in an airport in Sydney and conceived the 6-9 forward in the cramped backseat of a Volkswagon bug"
lol... too funny

It's incredibly unfair because nobody chooses their family but the people that surround you growing up absolutely have a huge impact in shaping who you are as a person and a basketball player and as such it's relevant info. Frankly probably more so than the absence/presence of a granular skill that can always get picked up later if the player has the drive to improve. Drop Morant in a family where his father isn't enabling the wost parts of his personality and I think his career turns out very differently. Don't you ?

Sure, but both of the quoted sentences are still funny when they stand alone. Just trying to have a little fun. Not saying it's not pertinent to them as a person, just that it's a couple funny sentences. Character is probably one of the most difficult things to judge in the draft process. Jaylen Brown without his work ethic is a bust. Zion with a better one is a HOF'er. But, stating that Rasheer's mom's name is Dana as the literal first sentence in his eval is funny.

yea, it's not funny cause of the details of the person's background... its funny because it's an almost excessive amount of information, lol

"here's Cooper Flagg, he is a sagittarius, at six yrs old, he came down the stairs on Christmas morning dreaming of a Hulk hogan figurine but was disappointed that has parents had purchased Jake "The Snake" Roberts toy instead ..."

[Hal14]

No, I don't make more big board with the Celtics in mind.

Re: Ace. He's going to go in the top 10 picks. I doubt we trade up that high but I suppose if we trade up and into the 3-10 range and he's there, we might take him..I'd be pretty surprised if we trade up that high and if we did, I would think it's to get one of the studs like Flagg or Harper..

What about Thomas Sorber? You seem quite a bit lower on him than consensus. do you have injury concerns given he's a big guy who had, whatever it was, a fracture in his foot?, or are you down on his ability to guard the perimeter or make outside shots? He seems at his age and feel, like he should be 10-20 range, to me anyway.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[redslastlaugh]

Swish Theory drops their graphical Draft Guide today too. It is also free & also quite succinct.

https://theswishtheory.com/scouting-report/nba-draft/2025-nba-draft/

[playa-hater]

Tankathon updated yesterday. Kalk at 28, Powell at 32. Run from 20-27 is depressing, lol
https://tankathon.com/mock_draft

Yes, but getting a first for Jrue (from the late teens to twenties and maybe Boston could draft Fleming-Raynaud-Powell. That would have me stoked.

please Brad, get err-dun!