What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling?

[ballup]

We'd all prefer Tatum to attack the rim more. His shot profile is very balanced, but I think some of his midrange isos are out of rhythm. I don't have the resources to get the specific stats, but I'd like to see what the numbers are when he takes one after X amount of made shots during a game.

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[FlatearthZorro]

I hear you. As I said, he’s a great offensive player. I guess I just don’t see the fire yet the way you do. It isn’t about scoring. Carmelo had great scoring numbers. KD is a MVP level player and personally I don’t think he has a cold blooded mentality either (although I’d love him on our team). So it’s subjective.

Carmelo is trash, Tatum might already be better than Carmelo ever was when you consider both sides of the ball.

[24istheLAW]

I hear you. As I said, he’s a great offensive player. I guess I just don’t see the fire yet the way you do. It isn’t about scoring. Carmelo had great scoring numbers. KD is a MVP level player and personally I don’t think he has a cold blooded mentality either (although I’d love him on our team). So it’s subjective.

I sort of get you.

Tatum has a short memory, he's got a ton of confidence in playing his game, and he moves onto the next possession. The positive aspect of that is he never gets too down on himself, and he can take big shots. The negative is that he doesn't always give the game what it needs, which is a big leadership trait in the NBA. To be an MVP-sort, he has to diversify his game enough to play with force when it's necessary, pick up the pace when it's necessary, etc. Not always do the same thing. Brown is the opposite I think. He's very conscious of the flow of the game, and what the team isn't doing that needs to be done, and takes initiative to do it. But he's also been streaky throughout his career, can't always execute it, and has emotional highs and lows. If the Celtics are going to win a title in the near future, they need the two to learn a bit from one another. A bit more fire from Jayson and a bit more ice from Jaylen.

[Feed Your Head]

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Absorbing coaching is one thing. But Tatum also implements it quickly. “Share something with Jayson once,” says Celtics coach Brad Stevens, “and he usually does it the next time down the floor. Stevens recalls a sequence during an exhibition game in Charlotte in Tatum’s rookie season. The Hornets ran a play the Celtics hadn’t worked on defending. Tatum got lost the first time. When Charlotte ran the same play a few possessions later, Tatum broke it up. Last season Celtics assistant Jay Larranaga showed Tatum a clip of Kemba Walker getting to the rim with an in-and-out dribble. The next night Tatum scored on a similar move. “His brain never gets sped up,” says Larranaga. “You tell him something in a game and he is able to immediately apply it.”

[Tatumfor2]

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Absorbing coaching is one thing. But Tatum also implements it quickly. “Share something with Jayson once,” says Celtics coach Brad Stevens, “and he usually does it the next time down the floor. Stevens recalls a sequence during an exhibition game in Charlotte in Tatum’s rookie season. The Hornets ran a play the Celtics hadn’t worked on defending. Tatum got lost the first time. When Charlotte ran the same play a few possessions later, Tatum broke it up. Last season Celtics assistant Jay Larranaga showed Tatum a clip of Kemba Walker getting to the rim with an in-and-out dribble. The next night Tatum scored on a similar move. “His brain never gets sped up,” says Larranaga. “You tell him something in a game and he is able to immediately apply it.”

[Gomes3PC]

Really, really, really just need the kid to grift his way to 2 more FTs/g and he will reach true alpha status. He's slowly reverted back to more midranges and floaters than his best stretch last year, when he was just going at the rim relentlessly while Kemba was out.

[Celtic Koala]

imho you can't be a true #1 with less than 5 assists a game if you are a non-Center. I thought Tatum was heading in that direction but it hasn't happened so he's really not a true #1. He's more a high end #2 with Jaylen a low end #2. No team without a true #1 is winning an NBA championship ever again.

By this logic Kobe wasn't a true #1 or am I missing something with this post?

[Celtic Koala]

He's the Luka now. It's just no one outside of us has noticed yet.

He's not the primary playmaker Luka is, and his inconsistency getting FTAs is also a glaring gap between the two.

I'd still take Luka, but Jayson is right with him among the future title-worthy alphas.

I mean I know they're different players. I just think everyone is enamored with Luka and missing that Tatum is just as damn good.

Luka isn't the shooter or defender JT is. Or the winner JT is, to this point at least. So it goes both ways.

Luka won a finals MVP in the Euroleague and carried a country with half the population of MA to a second place in the world cup. I think it is a stretch to not think he is a winner if you look at the challenges he has taken. Luka has a lot more upside than Tatum because he is younger,has a much higher BBIQ and because he is still in the babyfat phase most Euro players (Jokic or Gasol come to mind) where is not taking that much care of his diet as he can blow out players with his sheer skill. If Luka does like Jokic and starts caring about his health in the off season we will see him approaching James Harden levels at a very young age.

[Feed Your Head]

Really, really, really just need the kid to grift his way to 2 more FTs/g and he will reach true alpha status. He's slowly reverted back to more midranges and floaters than his best stretch last year, when he was just going at the rim relentlessly while Kemba was out.

Agreed, I like the really short midrange jumpers and fadeaways, but I hate him taking the 16-3PT jumpers, especially because he is shooting 38% on them. I think the FT thing is some early season noise as well, but i want to see him make a point of being more aggressive with it.

It seems like this year he is more worried about finishing than trying to draw weak contact, he’s shooting by far a career high at the rim, and from 10 feet in. He needs to find a happy medium between being able to finish, and trying to sell the contact. I would be willing to bet he averages 6+ FTA a game for the month of February.

I think Jaylen has shown he can be a championship number two, now Tatum has to show he can be a legit championship #1, and not just a 1b. Getting to the line and continued improved playmaking will get him there, which he seems to know.

[Gomes3PC]

imho you can't be a true #1 with less than 5 assists a game if you are a non-Center. I thought Tatum was heading in that direction but it hasn't happened so he's really not a true #1. He's more a high end #2 with Jaylen a low end #2. No team without a true #1 is winning an NBA championship ever again.

By this logic Kobe wasn't a true #1 or am I missing something with this post?

Think Kawhi up til this year wouldn't qualify either.

[jmr07019]

Read on Twitter

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Absorbing coaching is one thing. But Tatum also implements it quickly. “Share something with Jayson once,” says Celtics coach Brad Stevens, “and he usually does it the next time down the floor. Stevens recalls a sequence during an exhibition game in Charlotte in Tatum’s rookie season. The Hornets ran a play the Celtics hadn’t worked on defending. Tatum got lost the first time. When Charlotte ran the same play a few possessions later, Tatum broke it up. Last season Celtics assistant Jay Larranaga showed Tatum a clip of Kemba Walker getting to the rim with an in-and-out dribble. The next night Tatum scored on a similar move. “His brain never gets sped up,” says Larranaga. “You tell him something in a game and he is able to immediately apply it.”

In reference to the above quote it was pretty amazing how quickly Tatum was able to adapt to doubles being sent his way in the playoffs last year. Goes to show there's some legitimacy to it.

[Feed Your Head]

Tatum is driving to the rim a ton, but he needs to learn how to draw fouls better. He seems aware of this, so I’m expecting a big jump in FTr the rest of the way.

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What we are seeing now is the intersection of Brown and Tatum’s development curves, where Brown is branching out more into Tatum’s fluid long-stride driving style and Tatum is learning how to play with power and bounce like Brown.

But even with all this room for growth, Tatum’s offensive diversity this season has been elite. There are only four players in the league who are scoring at least five points on pull-up shots per game, while averaging at least a point a game in Second Spectrum’s five other play type categories: drives, catch and shoots, paint touches, post touches and elbow touches. The list is LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard, Joel Embiid and Jayson Tatum.

[BostonCouchGM]

imho you can't be a true #1 with less than 5 assists a game if you are a non-Center. I thought Tatum was heading in that direction but it hasn't happened so he's really not a true #1. He's more a high end #2 with Jaylen a low end #2. No team without a true #1 is winning an NBA championship ever again.

By this logic Kobe wasn't a true #1 or am I missing something with this post?

lol who and 1s this? Probably some stalking hater. Kobe literally averaged above 5 assists a game during his prime and 4.7 for his career. He was also one of the best defenders in the league and a scoring leader. Just a modicum of research could have prevented this

[BostonCouchGM]

imho you can't be a true #1 with less than 5 assists a game if you are a non-Center. I thought Tatum was heading in that direction but it hasn't happened so he's really not a true #1. He's more a high end #2 with Jaylen a low end #2. No team without a true #1 is winning an NBA championship ever again.

By this logic Kobe wasn't a true #1 or am I missing something with this post?

Think Kawhi up til this year wouldn't qualify either.

Kawhi was arguably the best two-way player in the league and played off ball due to having entrenched veteran point guards on his team. Since that's changed he's averaging 5 assists a game. Thanks for sort of finding a partial exception to the rule?!

[Parliament10]

imho you can't be a true #1 with less than 5 assists a game if you are a non-Center. I thought Tatum was heading in that direction but it hasn't happened so he's really not a true #1. He's more a high end #2 with Jaylen a low end #2. No team without a true #1 is winning an NBA championship ever again.

By this logic Kobe wasn't a true #1 or am I missing something with this post?

lol who and 1s this? Probably some stalking hater. Kobe literally averaged above 5 assists a game during his prime and 4.7 for his career. He was also one of the best defenders in the league and a scoring leader. Just a modicum of research could have prevented this

Don't start this mess.

~ Parl

[Celtic Koala]

imho you can't be a true #1 with less than 5 assists a game if you are a non-Center. I thought Tatum was heading in that direction but it hasn't happened so he's really not a true #1. He's more a high end #2 with Jaylen a low end #2. No team without a true #1 is winning an NBA championship ever again.

By this logic Kobe wasn't a true #1 or am I missing something with this post?

lol who and 1s this? Probably some stalking hater. Kobe literally averaged above 5 assists a game during his prime and 4.7 for his career. He was also one of the best defenders in the league and a scoring leader. Just a modicum of research could have prevented this

He only had 5+ assits with Shaq and another season without him, in his best statistical season in scoring he averaged below 5 assits and in one of his title runs he averaged below 5 assits. Why do you act so shocked when it is as simple as a google search to find this out? You claimed that a true #1 could never average more than 5 assists and I put Kobe as an example as he was a clear #1 who won titles averaging below 5 assits per game.
Btw Kobe's defence is one of the most overrated aspects of his game. His defensive plus minus was negative most of his career.

[Bleeding Green]

Who has even won titles in the last 10 years? Spurs (Kawhi/Duncan), LeBron, Warriors, Mavericks (Dirk), Raptors (Kawhi). 3 out of 5, the best player on the team averaged under 5 assists a game.

[zoyathedestroya]

Tatum is averaging 27/7/4 on 58% TS% at age 22 while Larry Bird at the same age was putting up... *checks notes*... nope, yeah, he was not yet in the league at that age.

[Ill News]

It's amazing that even with Brown having a scorching start and an breakout season so far, Tatum is still clearly our best player when you look at stats or even just watching him play. He's averaging 27/7/4 while Brown is averaging 26/5/3. We've come to expect superstar performances from him every time and he always seems to deliver, that it's become ho-hum when he drops a 34/7/2/4 stat line or the almost-triple-double he had the other night.

I'm sure I've said it numerous times in this thread already, but I've no doubt he'll be a serious MVP candidate once Ainge builds the right team around him (or the young guys grow into roles that complement him and Brown perfectly). It's a matter of when, not if.

[Gomes3PC]

Patience, folks. Even for the greats, very few of them won titles when they were the best player on the team at age 22. Most take until ages 25-29 to really figure out what it takes to get over the hump. Tatum has already been in 3 ECFs and has gotten better in each one of them. He and Jaylen are still 2-3 years from where there should be some rightful pressure on whether they have what it takes to truly lead a title team.