Gordon Hayward Thread

[cloverleaf]

Its time for Hayward to start. The problem is that he should take Tatum's spot and we know that this wont happen.
But it would be the best for the team right now. Hayward, Tatum and Kyrie wont work for long periods and also we would miss Morris' toughness.
Anyway, whether Hayward starts or not, I d like to see him taking more shots. He's 6th in shots per game, at only 8.9 per game. He's also 6th in usage.
Playoffs are coming, we need our best players to have the most usage. Hayward should be at least 3rd in usage and shots/game.

Agree.

He is our most expensive Max player who I agree needs to be in top 3 in shots.

Tatum is an up and comer, He is not as good as Hayward and neither is Brown.

ABC coverage last night said Tatum and Brown think they are better than Hayward...again go to the tape.

Hell , I'm better than Lebron if he had a broken leg...... welll... maybe

Yep, for this year at least, the team's three "All-Stars" are still their best players.

[Diamantidis]

Its time for Hayward to start. The problem is that he should take Tatum's spot and we know that this wont happen.
But it would be the best for the team right now. Hayward, Tatum and Kyrie wont work for long periods and also we would miss Morris' toughness.
Anyway, whether Hayward starts or not, I d like to see him taking more shots. He's 6th in shots per game, at only 8.9 per game. He's also 6th in usage.
Playoffs are coming, we need our best players to have the most usage. Hayward should be at least 3rd in usage and shots/game.

This is obviously a fragile team from a chemistry standpoint, with Hayward being as fragile as any of them in terms of his own mindset. So I'd keep him right where he is, at least as long as this is working, but up his minutes and usage and have him in closing out tight games. That means he'll be playing half the time with Kyrie anyway (on those nights when Kyrie plays). But he should be grooving into a sense of confidence and being able to dominate again when he's out there.

How is Hayward fragile? He asked to come off the bench, he doesnt complain about his shots and usage, on the contrary he's always trying to make the right play.
Its the young guys who are insecure and unhappy with their limited role. And I get it up to a point, they havent got their big contract yet, they dont know if they will be in Boston next year or get traded.
If it wasnt for Hayward unselfishness we d have much bigger problems in the locker room.
Anyway, like I said its not about starting, Hayward could have a Manu role this season and thats fine, but I dont wanna see him take only 5 or 6 shots in some games , because Brad wants to empower everybody. Its not gonna work in the playoffs, we re not the 2014 Spurs.

[cloverleaf]

Its time for Hayward to start. The problem is that he should take Tatum's spot and we know that this wont happen.
But it would be the best for the team right now. Hayward, Tatum and Kyrie wont work for long periods and also we would miss Morris' toughness.
Anyway, whether Hayward starts or not, I d like to see him taking more shots. He's 6th in shots per game, at only 8.9 per game. He's also 6th in usage.
Playoffs are coming, we need our best players to have the most usage. Hayward should be at least 3rd in usage and shots/game.

This is obviously a fragile team from a chemistry standpoint, with Hayward being as fragile as any of them in terms of his own mindset. So I'd keep him right where he is, at least as long as this is working, but up his minutes and usage and have him in closing out tight games. That means he'll be playing half the time with Kyrie anyway (on those nights when Kyrie plays). But he should be grooving into a sense of confidence and being able to dominate again when he's out there.

How is Hayward fragile? He asked to come off the bench, he doesnt complain about his shots and usage, on the contrary he's always trying to make the right play.
Its the young guys who are insecure and unhappy with their limited role. And I get it up to a point, they havent got their big contract yet, they dont know if they will be in Boston next year or get traded.
If it wasnt for Hayward unselfishness we d have much bigger problems in the locker room.
Anyway, like I said its not about starting, Hayward could have a Manu role this season and thats fine, but I dont wanna see him take only 5 or 6 shots in some games , because Brad wants to empower everybody. Its not gonna work in the playoffs, we re not the 2014 Spurs.

Fragile mindset is what I wrote. He and his teammates would be among the first to admit that it has taken a lot for him to get his aggressive mindset back playing. No doubt he's been trying to make the right play and has been unselfish in his play.

We agree he needs more shots and that he doesn't need to start right now for that. He just needs to build more success right now rather than suffer a potential setback such as he had with his ankle sprain and the pressure of going back into the starting lineup right now, having that chemistry work and facing opponents' starters is just an unneeded risk to hand him right now.

[OBisHalJordan]

Hayward needs more shots. He needs to be more aggressive and probably could use some more support from Stevens and directing more opportunities his way.

[sully00]

Hayward has some bounce in his step again. Good Gordon - is a very good NBA player. Team should start him. Guy who can get 30 off the bench can score 40+ sometimes when they start. It's much better for your timing when you get the start. Stevens had it right early season - but he should have waited till later to go with the Brown at 2 and Gordon at 3 lineup. If you want a super scorer off the bench - both Tatum and Morris would work - as those guys aren't really team friendly passers. They look for their own shot.

None of JB, MM or JT pass to teammates for assists much, but JT is at least better than the other two on that.

If Hayward reverts to all-star form - someone needs to go to the bench. Dumb to play your 2nd best player off the bench. If you swap Tatum for Hayward you don't lose toughness and strength. You do if you bench Morris. Both are 3s so if Hayward earns those job he should get it.

There is no winning for Brad here. But in my view unless we get peak Hayward we have no chance this year at championship. OTOH if we do get peak Hayward we absolutely have a chance. Not next year - THIS year.

So coaching job has to be first about getting best out of Hayward and Kyrie.

I disagree with needing to start Hayward only because of the lack of a play maker on the second unit. I just see it this way Smart and Irving are kind of tied at the hip right now, Smart needs Irving's offense to open up his open looks and Kyrie needs Marcus ability to defend either the one or the two and lock it down. I think moving Smart back to the bench for Hayward is going to diminish Smart's offense and make for a gross bench unit offensively.

By swapping Hayward for Morris you end trading a guy who is better with the ball in hands for a catch and shoot guy in Morris. That unit has enough ball handling and play making it needs guys who will knock down open shots and Morris is doing that. Obviously Hayward is a better player but he isn't a better PF and either is Tatum and this is going to be the issue with this roster long term. By moving Hayward back into the starting line up your essentially asking him or Tatum to defend the 4 for 25-30 mpg and the results of that have not been great.

Hayward is so much more valuable if he can give you the All Star performance in the 6th man role. It allows you to have 48 mins of All Star talent without having weird rotations that make it like your never at full strength. It is more important for Hayward to increase his mins, usage, and effectiveness than it is for him to hear his name called in the intros.

I think Brad has this figured out right now. You can see it in the last 15 games or so that Hayward is in double figures had some really special games. The next step is limiting these flat spots to one game and not let it be 3,4,5 games where he struggles. When you look at his splits it is staggering the difference between wins and losses and how key he is. He was a +11 in Feb and has been a +16 and that includes that 5 games stretch of nothing I wouldn't change anything. Morris is a luxury this team probably won't have after this season but while you have it I think you have to leave it alone at this point.

[ThirtyFour]

None of JB, MM or JT pass to teammates for assists much, but JT is at least better than the other two on that.

If Hayward reverts to all-star form - someone needs to go to the bench. Dumb to play your 2nd best player off the bench. If you swap Tatum for Hayward you don't lose toughness and strength. You do if you bench Morris. Both are 3s so if Hayward earns those job he should get it.

There is no winning for Brad here. But in my view unless we get peak Hayward we have no chance this year at championship. OTOH if we do get peak Hayward we absolutely have a chance. Not next year - THIS year.

So coaching job has to be first about getting best out of Hayward and Kyrie.

I disagree with needing to start Hayward only because of the lack of a play maker on the second unit. I just see it this way Smart and Irving are kind of tied at the hip right now, Smart needs Irving's offense to open up his open looks and Kyrie needs Marcus ability to defend either the one or the two and lock it down. I think moving Smart back to the bench for Hayward is going to diminish Smart's offense and make for a gross bench unit offensively.

By swapping Hayward for Morris you end trading a guy who is better with the ball in hands for a catch and shoot guy in Morris. That unit has enough ball handling and play making it needs guys who will knock down open shots and Morris is doing that. Obviously Hayward is a better player but he isn't a better PF and either is Tatum and this is going to be the issue with this roster long term. By moving Hayward back into the starting line up your essentially asking him or Tatum to defend the 4 for 25-30 mpg and the results of that have not been great.

Hayward is so much more valuable if he can give you the All Star performance in the 6th man role. It allows you to have 48 mins of All Star talent without having weird rotations that make it like your never at full strength. It is more important for Hayward to increase his mins, usage, and effectiveness than it is for him to hear his name called in the intros.

I think Brad has this figured out right now. You can see it in the last 15 games or so that Hayward is in double figures had some really special games. The next step is limiting these flat spots to one game and not let it be 3,4,5 games where he struggles. When you look at his splits it is staggering the difference between wins and losses and how key he is. He was a +11 in Feb and has been a +16 and that includes that 5 games stretch of nothing I wouldn't change anything. Morris is a luxury this team probably won't have after this season but while you have it I think you have to leave it alone at this point.

To add to this...with the regular season wrapping up and us finally, hopefully, playing well I’m a bit nervous to rock the boat too much. I was more apt for us to make this move when it seemed like nothing was working for that stretch right after the ASB.

I think for this team the worrying about who starts and who doesn’t ship has sailed. Clearly one way or another we’ll see a different team take the court next season and we can make adjustments then.

[OBisHalJordan]

Stevens just needs to tweak the game plan a bit. Get Morris, Rozier, and Brown's FGA down about two per game and give Hayward those shots.

[mbsnmisc]

Its time for Hayward to start. The problem is that he should take Tatum's spot and we know that this wont happen.
But it would be the best for the team right now. Hayward, Tatum and Kyrie wont work for long periods and also we would miss Morris' toughness.
Anyway, whether Hayward starts or not, I d like to see him taking more shots. He's 6th in shots per game, at only 8.9 per game. He's also 6th in usage.
Playoffs are coming, we need our best players to have the most usage. Hayward should be at least 3rd in usage and shots/game.

This is obviously a fragile team from a chemistry standpoint, with Hayward being as fragile as any of them in terms of his own mindset. So I'd keep him right where he is, at least as long as this is working, but up his minutes and usage and have him in closing out tight games. That means he'll be playing half the time with Kyrie anyway (on those nights when Kyrie plays). But he should be grooving into a sense of confidence and being able to dominate again when he's out there.

I am on board with your plan. The last thing the 2018-19 Celtics need is a grenade tossed in a healing locker room. Let Morris start, massage his minutes/shots (if possible), and keep this train rolling into the playoffs.

[Duke4life831]

Hayward over the last 16 games:

12/4/3.5 on 55/43/78 shooting and a +8.6 +/- in 26 minutes a game

So basically over the last month and a half, he has been pretty damn good for you guys. It's really about finding more shots for him now.

[celtxman]

None of JB, MM or JT pass to teammates for assists much, but JT is at least better than the other two on that.

If Hayward reverts to all-star form - someone needs to go to the bench. Dumb to play your 2nd best player off the bench. If you swap Tatum for Hayward you don't lose toughness and strength. You do if you bench Morris. Both are 3s so if Hayward earns those job he should get it.

There is no winning for Brad here. But in my view unless we get peak Hayward we have no chance this year at championship. OTOH if we do get peak Hayward we absolutely have a chance. Not next year - THIS year.

So coaching job has to be first about getting best out of Hayward and Kyrie.

I disagree with needing to start Hayward only because of the lack of a play maker on the second unit. I just see it this way Smart and Irving are kind of tied at the hip right now, Smart needs Irving's offense to open up his open looks and Kyrie needs Marcus ability to defend either the one or the two and lock it down. I think moving Smart back to the bench for Hayward is going to diminish Smart's offense and make for a gross bench unit offensively.

By swapping Hayward for Morris you end trading a guy who is better with the ball in hands for a catch and shoot guy in Morris. That unit has enough ball handling and play making it needs guys who will knock down open shots and Morris is doing that. Obviously Hayward is a better player but he isn't a better PF and either is Tatum and this is going to be the issue with this roster long term. By moving Hayward back into the starting line up your essentially asking him or Tatum to defend the 4 for 25-30 mpg and the results of that have not been great.

Hayward is so much more valuable if he can give you the All Star performance in the 6th man role. It allows you to have 48 mins of All Star talent without having weird rotations that make it like your never at full strength. It is more important for Hayward to increase his mins, usage, and effectiveness than it is for him to hear his name called in the intros.

I think Brad has this figured out right now. You can see it in the last 15 games or so that Hayward is in double figures had some really special games. The next step is limiting these flat spots to one game and not let it be 3,4,5 games where he struggles. When you look at his splits it is staggering the difference between wins and losses and how key he is. He was a +11 in Feb and has been a +16 and that includes that 5 games stretch of nothing I wouldn't change anything. Morris is a luxury this team probably won't have after this season but while you have it I think you have to leave it alone at this point.

On the Morris part, I'm glad he wasn't let go at the trade deadline for a late 1st round pick. If the Celtics need to give up Tatum and Brown for AD, then they can't afford to lose Morris. Their options are still open. Even if only Tatum is needed for a trade they will need another quality wing if Morris is gone. How do you get this player?

[Edug27]

Hayward over the last 16 games:

12/4/3.5 on 55/43/78 shooting and a +8.6 +/- in 26 minutes a game

So basically over the last month and a half, he has been pretty damn good for you guys. It's really about finding more shots for him now.

There’s plenty of shots to be had. He just needs to be more aggressive.. and slow but surely he will be.

[thelarrybirdx]

Hayward over the last 16 games:

12/4/3.5 on 55/43/78 shooting and a +8.6 +/- in 26 minutes a game

So basically over the last month and a half, he has been pretty damn good for you guys. It's really about finding more shots for him now.

A pretty underrated effect of this would be less shots for Tatum, which hopefully would revert him back to his role last season as a spot up shooter. He's clearly not good enough to be the second or third option on a contending team right now with his shot selection.

[Duke4life831]

Hayward over the last 16 games:

12/4/3.5 on 55/43/78 shooting and a +8.6 +/- in 26 minutes a game

So basically over the last month and a half, he has been pretty damn good for you guys. It's really about finding more shots for him now.

There’s plenty of shots to be had. He just needs to be more aggressive.. and slow but surely he will be.

Agreed, he still seems to be hesitant out there when it comes to looking for his own shot. But hopefully the consistent improvement on the court will let him start being more aggressive.

Just looked at his splits and its definitely pretty encouraging

Oct: 48 TS%
Nov: 53 TS%
Dec: 51 TS%
Jan: 55 TS%
Feb: 64 TS%
Mar: 68 TS%

[celticfan42487]

Hayward over the last 16 games:

12/4/3.5 on 55/43/78 shooting and a +8.6 +/- in 26 minutes a game

So basically over the last month and a half, he has been pretty damn good for you guys. It's really about finding more shots for him now.

A pretty underrated effect of this would be less shots for Tatum, which hopefully would revert him back to his role last season as a spot up shooter. He's clearly not good enough to be the second or third option on a contending team right now with his shot selection.

Well more causation to that correlation, right now Tatum is the only other player on our team besides Irving (and potentially you could say Al if fed in the post but he's not that great down low) who can create his own shot one on one.

Hayward could "find" shots if he had any athleticism back. Hearing Hayward speak about his muscle atrophied he's been dealing with. Even if he can no longer jump I bet come next year with an off season off for his muscles to actually get some rest and be rebuilt back up... Hayward will figure out his new level of jumping. And even if he is never able to jump again we've seen he's strong enough to shoulder check his way into a layup attempt. He also may pick up some cheap moves to draw contact and get to the line.

At this point though, Hayward's numbers are a sole reflection of the amount of open shots the entire team is getting as opposed to anything he can control.

And I agree a billion percent, Tatum has been very inefficient as an ISO scorer. Our entire team outside of Irving needs someone else to be the primary ballhandler and an amazing playmaker for them to get efficient offense.

Perhaps we get that next year playing inside out basketball with Anthony Davis. If not perhaps we pick up some vet PGs ala Rondo or one of those dramatically undersized PGs who can at least "cirlcle the wagons" on offense to create some defensive rotations. Just to add a different demension and get our guys in motion or off the catch in motion offense where they're quite effective (Tatum, Brown, Hayward).

[thelarrybirdx]

Hayward over the last 16 games:

12/4/3.5 on 55/43/78 shooting and a +8.6 +/- in 26 minutes a game

So basically over the last month and a half, he has been pretty damn good for you guys. It's really about finding more shots for him now.

A pretty underrated effect of this would be less shots for Tatum, which hopefully would revert him back to his role last season as a spot up shooter. He's clearly not good enough to be the second or third option on a contending team right now with his shot selection.

Well more causation to that correlation, right now Tatum is the only other player on our team besides Irving (and potentially you could say Al if fed in the post but he's not that great down low) who can create his own shot one on one.

Hayward could "find" shots if he had any athleticism back. Hearing Hayward speak about his muscle atrophied he's been dealing with. Even if he can no longer jump I bet come next year with an off season off for his muscles to actually get some rest and be rebuilt back up... Hayward will figure out his new level of jumping. And even if he is never able to jump again we've seen he's strong enough to shoulder check his way into a layup attempt. He also may pick up some cheap moves to draw contact and get to the line.

At this point though, Hayward's numbers are a sole reflection of the amount of open shots the entire team is getting as opposed to anything he can control.

And I agree a billion percent, Tatum has been very inefficient as an ISO scorer. Our entire team outside of Irving needs someone else to be the primary ballhandler and an amazing playmaker for them to get efficient offense.

Perhaps we get that next year playing inside out basketball with Anthony Davis. If not perhaps we pick up some vet PGs ala Rondo or one of those dramatically undersized PGs who can at least "cirlcle the wagons" on offense to create some defensive rotations. Just to add a different demension and get our guys in motion or off the catch in motion offense where they're quite effective (Tatum, Brown, Hayward).

Would love having Rondo back next year, regardless of how our team looks.

[celticfan42487]

A pretty underrated effect of this would be less shots for Tatum, which hopefully would revert him back to his role last season as a spot up shooter. He's clearly not good enough to be the second or third option on a contending team right now with his shot selection.

Well more causation to that correlation, right now Tatum is the only other player on our team besides Irving (and potentially you could say Al if fed in the post but he's not that great down low) who can create his own shot one on one.

Hayward could "find" shots if he had any athleticism back. Hearing Hayward speak about his muscle atrophied he's been dealing with. Even if he can no longer jump I bet come next year with an off season off for his muscles to actually get some rest and be rebuilt back up... Hayward will figure out his new level of jumping. And even if he is never able to jump again we've seen he's strong enough to shoulder check his way into a layup attempt. He also may pick up some cheap moves to draw contact and get to the line.

At this point though, Hayward's numbers are a sole reflection of the amount of open shots the entire team is getting as opposed to anything he can control.

And I agree a billion percent, Tatum has been very inefficient as an ISO scorer. Our entire team outside of Irving needs someone else to be the primary ballhandler and an amazing playmaker for them to get efficient offense.

Perhaps we get that next year playing inside out basketball with Anthony Davis. If not perhaps we pick up some vet PGs ala Rondo or one of those dramatically undersized PGs who can at least "cirlcle the wagons" on offense to create some defensive rotations. Just to add a different demension and get our guys in motion or off the catch in motion offense where they're quite effective (Tatum, Brown, Hayward).

Would love having Rondo back next year, regardless of how our team looks.

No matter how the team looks. Unless we have a Lonzo Ball or Shaun Livingston... it looks like there will be a needed role for a playmaker, and an **** at PG.

Smart's out here with 0 help in the **** department and teams don't win playing like creampuffs (hi Irving, Brown, Tatum, Hayward).

[yazfan]

https://www.take5sports.com/hayward

Interesting perspective on Hayward.

[robdog_5]

The thing is I feel so much better about what may happen when Hayward initiates a play vs anyone outside Irving or Horford on our team

[StojkoVrankovic]

https://www.take5sports.com/hayward

Interesting perspective on Hayward.

We get it, you have a blog

[cloverleaf]

https://www.take5sports.com/hayward

Interesting perspective on Hayward.

We get it, you have a blog

Ha ha. Nailed it.