Trade Ideas Thread

[snowman]

Well, now that we made the ECF, which at the beginning of the season, I thought was a very long shot, I think that makes Danny and Wyc look at things a bit differently. In my mind, I don't think those two are thinking " Well, we got close, but lets punt Hayward to another team and save some money." I fully expect that Hayward will pick up his option, not be traded, and we will see where he is the following summer on an extension. I mean, look at the faith and confidence the players and coaching staff have with him for game three of these ECF. "Once Hayward gets back we will be better" With that in mind, we will be over the lux tax already, as most all teams will be, due to the current situation in the league right now. There will be no reason to use an asset (draft pick) to move a small salary like Poirier or Edwards, just to open a roster spot. I think Danny and Wyc also realize that this will be the last time in years we will be have a high (lottery) draft pick. (I don't believe any team will take a pick in this "weak" draft only to trade a similar or better pick in a "better" draft.) So, this off season I fully expect (and hope) the follow, in no specific order:

1) Sign Tatum to full max that he can get. Don't try to add bonus clauses to reach. Wrap him up for as long as you can.
2) As I said earlier, Hayward will pick up his option, as I believe Kanter will also.
3) Trade or release Poirier. His greatest skill is he is 7'0 tall. We need the space for our 1st round pick # 14. Tacko brings more to the table than Poirier. And Tacko isn't ready either.
4) Release Green. Great athlete, and feel good story, but we need the space for our 1st round pick # 26.
5) Use all three draft picks, on a 3&D wing at 14 (S. Bey of Nesmith) to groom for Hayward's replacement at some point, a PG (Kira Lewis) to replace Kemba at some point, and a big (Nnaji or Oturu) to replace Kanter.

Since this is the trade thread we should be able to trade Poirier and I think, Edwards (roster spot for 1st round pick # 30). We will have to send out cash I believe to move both, but we shouldn't have to add a pick. Poirier should be offered to Houston, Detroit or LA Clips, all need of a 7'0 footer to try and mold and Edwards should be offered to Dallas or OKC, both could use a deep bench pg/sg

[100proof]

I agree, looks like Hayward will be back. That is cool too. So need to look at deals that drop a little cap $.

Timberwolves trade: Spellman OR Layman
Celtics trade: Kanter and Edwards.

Minny adds a backup center who can score in the half court for them and adds a shooter off the bench. Boston adds a floor spacing PF and sheds salary. 4.5 million if Spellman, 2.7 million if Layman is the return. Deals shed enough capspace to allow MLE (5 million) and not be over tax (If I am correct with the calculations)
Draft Kira at 14
Draft Ramsey at 26
Draft Joe at 30
Draft BPA at 47

Kemba/Smart/Kira-14
Brown/Ramsey-26/Romeo
Tatum/Joe-30/Semi
Hayward/Spellman/GrantW
Theis/Timelord/Poirier

Can use MLE on a bigman and use Romeo, Semi and Poirer as a consolidation trade (combined 8 mil in salary)

[zoyathedestroya]

Think playoffs when making trades. So if we're running it back (roster continuity matters), I'm fine with this configuration:

Kemba / Brown / Tatum / Hayward / Theis
Smart / ?? / ?? / Grant / Timelord
?? / Romeo / ?? / ?? / ??

Everyone else is expendable for upgrades or to open up spots for the rookies. For the second unit, find vets who fit the team and can contribute more than Wanamaker and Semi did. Shouldn't be too hard. Either via trade or FA (MLE). Development of Timelord esp on the defensive end should be a priority. He has to earn that backup center position at the very least. No defensive liabilities that are unplayable in the playoffs for that second unit please.

I think Kanter walks to look for a bigger role (and/or higher pay) on another team. So we at least need to get a third big that we can put in against the likes of Embiid and Jokic. It won't hurt to have a bench shooter or two to add another dimension to our offense.

[djFan71]

Think playoffs when making trades. So if we're running it back (roster continuity matters), I'm fine with this configuration:

Kemba / Brown / Tatum / Hayward / Theis
Smart / ?? / ?? / Grant / Timelord
?? / Romeo / ?? / ?? / ??

Everyone else is expendable for upgrades or to open up spots for the rookies. For the second unit, find vets who fit the team and can contribute more than Wanamaker and Semi did. Shouldn't be too hard. Either via trade or FA (MLE). Development of Timelord esp on the defensive end should be a priority. He has to earn that backup center position at the very least. No defensive liabilities that are unplayable in the playoffs for that second unit please.

I think Kanter walks to look for a bigger role (and/or higher pay) on another team. So we at least need to get a third big that we can put in against the likes of Embiid and Jokic. It won't hurt to have a bench shooter or two to add another dimension to our offense.

Yeah, this. I think you go BPA in draft, then fill needs in FA/trade. But, focus on guys you can actually play in the playoffs.

[100proof]

Think playoffs when making trades. So if we're running it back (roster continuity matters), I'm fine with this configuration:

Kemba / Brown / Tatum / Hayward / Theis
Smart / ?? / ?? / Grant / Timelord
?? / Romeo / ?? / ?? / ??

Everyone else is expendable for upgrades or to open up spots for the rookies. For the second unit, find vets who fit the team and can contribute more than Wanamaker and Semi did. Shouldn't be too hard. Either via trade or FA (MLE). Development of Timelord esp on the defensive end should be a priority. He has to earn that backup center position at the very least. No defensive liabilities that are unplayable in the playoffs for that second unit please.

I think Kanter walks to look for a bigger role (and/or higher pay) on another team. So we at least need to get a third big that we can put in against the likes of Embiid and Jokic. It won't hurt to have a bench shooter or two to add another dimension to our offense.

Yeah, this. I think you go BPA in draft, then fill needs in FA/trade. But, focus on guys you can actually play in the playoffs.

I dont think Romeo is a keeper at all.

So tradeable assets are:
Kanter - $5,005,350
Romeo - $3,631,200
Poirier - $2,619,207
Edwards - $1,517,981

team's payroll is: 144.3 Million BEFORE picks and signings

Drop Brad, Semi and Green and payroll BEFORE picks and signings is 139.2 Million.


The Deals:
The above listed assets total 12.7 million. They need to be moved for salary returning of about half that much.

ie: Kanter and Edwards for the Martin twins ( million savings) or for Kurucks (4.8 mill savings) Hutchinson (4.1 mill savings)
Smith JR(1.2 mill) Bruce Brown (4 mill) Shamet (4 mill), Ben Maclemore

and Romeo and Poirier for Naz Reid (4.75 million savings)



I like MacLemore (or House) for Kanter and Edwards and Romeo and Poirer for Naz Reid

Get some reliable shooting, and a young offensive Center with some potential to improve at protecting the rim. Move sheds 8.9 million in salary dropping team payroll to 131.3 million BEFORE picks and MLE. Just cannot see any way to get under the tax without shipping of Hayward, and I think that might be selling short on him.

So Unless we are getting Turner and McDermott for Hayward and Romeo or a deal comparable I no longer see a reason they do it. To get below the tax after signing rookies far enough to use the MLE team would need to come ahead in salary on a Hayward deal by 12-14 million dollars. Just realistically cannot see it happening.

Kemba/Smart
Brown/McLemore
Hayward
Tatum/GrantW
Theis/Reid/Timelored

3 rookies and couple of vet mins.

[djFan71]

Spoiler:

Think playoffs when making trades. So if we're running it back (roster continuity matters), I'm fine with this configuration:

Kemba / Brown / Tatum / Hayward / Theis
Smart / ?? / ?? / Grant / Timelord
?? / Romeo / ?? / ?? / ??

Everyone else is expendable for upgrades or to open up spots for the rookies. For the second unit, find vets who fit the team and can contribute more than Wanamaker and Semi did. Shouldn't be too hard. Either via trade or FA (MLE). Development of Timelord esp on the defensive end should be a priority. He has to earn that backup center position at the very least. No defensive liabilities that are unplayable in the playoffs for that second unit please.

I think Kanter walks to look for a bigger role (and/or higher pay) on another team. So we at least need to get a third big that we can put in against the likes of Embiid and Jokic. It won't hurt to have a bench shooter or two to add another dimension to our offense.

Yeah, this. I think you go BPA in draft, then fill needs in FA/trade. But, focus on guys you can actually play in the playoffs.

I dont think Romeo is a keeper at all.

So tradeable assets are:
Kanter - $5,005,350
Romeo - $3,631,200
Poirier - $2,619,207
Edwards - $1,517,981

team's payroll is: 144.3 Million BEFORE picks and signings

Drop Brad, Semi and Green and payroll BEFORE picks and signings is 139.2 Million.


The Deals:
The above listed assets total 12.7 million. They need to be moved for salary returning of about half that much.

ie: Kanter and Edwards for the Martin twins ( million savings) or for Kurucks (4.8 mill savings) Hutchinson (4.1 mill savings)
Smith JR(1.2 mill) Bruce Brown (4 mill) Shamet (4 mill), Ben Maclemore

and Romeo and Poirier for Naz Reid (4.75 million savings)



I like MacLemore (or House) for Kanter and Edwards and Romeo and Poirer for Naz Reid

Get some reliable shooting, and a young offensive Center with some potential to improve at protecting the rim. Move sheds 8.9 million in salary dropping team payroll to 131.3 million BEFORE picks and MLE. Just cannot see any way to get under the tax without shipping of Hayward, and I think that might be selling short on him.

So Unless we are getting Turner and McDermott for Hayward and Romeo or a deal comparable I no longer see a reason they do it. To get below the tax after signing rookies far enough to use the MLE team would need to come ahead in salary on a Hayward deal by 12-14 million dollars. Just realistically cannot see it happening.

Kemba/Smart
Brown/McLemore
Hayward
Tatum/GrantW
Theis/Reid/Timelored

3 rookies and couple of vet mins.

I think reworked Hayward and those type of back of the roster deals are where we're headed. Romeo is available for sure, but he's killing his value with the injuries. The Reid deal is interesting depending on our draft.

Kanter - could opt out since we're not playing him much. Or the POR TPE trade seems like a given if we want to duck the tax.

Hayward on the Jaylen deal (start @ $23.8M), Kanter gone to TPE. Even keeping Poirier and drafting 14,26,30 gets you at $130M with 14 players, so room for a vet min/2nd/Semi/Waters/etc even.

If we can do other deals, or combine picks, etc, you can dump/stretch Poirier and keep Kanter even.

[djFan71]

My favorite scenario now is:

14, 26, Poirier for 9. Get Okongwu or another slipper like Hayes/Okoro/Vassell/Haliburton
Kanter to POR TPE
Hayward on Jaylen deal

$126M on 12 players. Room for either:
- 3 vet mins/2nds/waters/etc
- $4M guy and a vet min
- 2 vet mins and wiggle room for the trade deadline


EDIT: My favorite tax-ducking scenario. If we can pay some tax, but lessen the burden, do Hayward for a little more for 3 years, keep Kanter, use non-tax MLE, etc.

[100proof]

Lets go with 1 more crazy deal (based of ball rumors in Boston for a private workout, and Joel being pissed with 76ers and wanting to be with his offseason buddy in Tatum)

To GSW: Hayward, Theis
out: Wiggins and #2

GSW upgrades their starting lineup with perfect fits.
Curry
Klay
Hayward
Green
Theis

To Minny:
Tobias Harris
out: James Johnson #17

Minny adds a scoring inside outside presence at PF/SF, still have capspace and #1 pick to round out roster. Team will be an offensive juggernaut with drafting Edwards
Russell
Edwards
Okogie/Beasley
Harris
KAT

To Philly:
Kemba Walker, Andrew Wiggins, #14, #17, #30
out: Embiid and Harris

Philly regroups and moves Joel and builds around Simmons by adding 2 20ppg scorers. Shed a little salary.
Kemba
Richardson
Wiggins
Simmons
Horford

To Boston: Joel Embiid and James Johnson and 28 million TPE and #2 in the draft.
Boston gains capspace, expiring contract of JJ and adds the Number 2 and Embiid. Team restructures around our big 3 of Tatum, Brown and Smart by adding a perfect bigman. the #2 can be used on Ball.

Use TPE, Romeo and Poirier to get Barnes and Bjelica from Sacramento shedding them alot of salary commitments,

Team has JJ to use as trade bait, 3 million left in TPE and full MLE to fill out roster.

Smart/Ball - #2/Waters
Brown/
Tatum/JJ/Semi
Barnes/Bjelica/GrantW
Embiid/Kanter/Timelord

[wco81]

Hayward on the Jaylen deal (start @ $23.8M), Kanter gone to TPE. Even keeping Poirier and drafting 14,26,30 gets you at $130M with 14 players, so room for a vet min/2nd/Semi/Waters/etc even.

So there are a couple of ways to look at this.

When Hayward was signed, he was going to be a mainstay of the franchise. I don't think Tatum had been drafted and Brown just had his rookie year?

Regardless of Stevens' fondness for Hayward, if Stevens and Ainge thought they'd have two young all-star forwards by now, one of them probably the leading scorer of the team for many years to come, would they have given Hayward a big contract?

Ironically, Haywards' injury gave these players, particularly Tatum, a lot more minutes than they might have gotten otherwise.


So Hayward is no longer a #1 option and shouldn't be paid as much going forward.

But look at his impact in Game 3 vs. the Heat. Do the Celtics win without him?

If the Celtics come back in this series or even win the title with Hayward playing a major role, you're not going to get him for $24 million.

It might be like a Horford situation. Someone will offer him $100 million or more for several more years.

Well at least if there wasn't a pandemic with big uncertainty about the NBA's finances for the next few years.

But he might still be a starter for playoffs teams even at his age. So better look around for which teams have cap space and need wings who can fill it up, make some plays.

[100proof]

Hayward on the Jaylen deal (start @ $23.8M), Kanter gone to TPE. Even keeping Poirier and drafting 14,26,30 gets you at $130M with 14 players, so room for a vet min/2nd/Semi/Waters/etc even.

So there are a couple of ways to look at this.

When Hayward was signed, he was going to be a mainstay of the franchise. I don't think Tatum had been drafted and Brown just had his rookie year?

Regardless of Stevens' fondness for Hayward, if Stevens and Ainge thought they'd have two young all-star forwards by now, one of them probably the leading scorer of the team for many years to come, would they have given Hayward a big contract?

Ironically, Haywards' injury gave these players, particularly Tatum, a lot more minutes than they might have gotten otherwise.


So Hayward is no longer a #1 option and shouldn't be paid as much going forward.

But look at his impact in Game 3 vs. the Heat. Do the Celtics win without him?

If the Celtics come back in this series or even win the title with Hayward playing a major role, you're not going to get him for $24 million.

It might be like a Horford situation. Someone will offer him $100 million or more for several more years.

Well at least if there wasn't a pandemic with big uncertainty about the NBA's finances for the next few years.

But he might still be a starter for playoffs teams even at his age. So better look around for which teams have cap space and need wings who can fill it up, make some plays.

I dont think they will, he is still on the wrong side of 30 and he has had a history of injuries. Also I can see him being the type of guy, like Duncan or Bosh, to take a little less to keep a team together and competing.

[djFan71]

Spoiler:

Hayward on the Jaylen deal (start @ $23.8M), Kanter gone to TPE. Even keeping Poirier and drafting 14,26,30 gets you at $130M with 14 players, so room for a vet min/2nd/Semi/Waters/etc even.

So there are a couple of ways to look at this.

When Hayward was signed, he was going to be a mainstay of the franchise. I don't think Tatum had been drafted and Brown just had his rookie year?

Regardless of Stevens' fondness for Hayward, if Stevens and Ainge thought they'd have two young all-star forwards by now, one of them probably the leading scorer of the team for many years to come, would they have given Hayward a big contract?

Ironically, Haywards' injury gave these players, particularly Tatum, a lot more minutes than they might have gotten otherwise.


So Hayward is no longer a #1 option and shouldn't be paid as much going forward.

But look at his impact in Game 3 vs. the Heat. Do the Celtics win without him?

If the Celtics come back in this series or even win the title with Hayward playing a major role, you're not going to get him for $24 million.

It might be like a Horford situation. Someone will offer him $100 million or more for several more years.

Well at least if there wasn't a pandemic with big uncertainty about the NBA's finances for the next few years.

But he might still be a starter for playoffs teams even at his age. So better look around for which teams have cap space and need wings who can fill it up, make some plays.

Tatum was drafted when we signed him. We MAY not have signed Hayward if we knew he was gonna be such a stud, but we probably would have just to take advantage of that cap space anyways. I don't see the 3 of them as redundant at all. Having all 3 is what makes things work.

Hayward's great and should be paid as such. 4 years, 8% raises starting at $23.8M => $107M. He's at $34M next year, so it's a 3yr/$60M extension. He definitely could bet on himself and not take that. But, there's no reason for Ainge to lock him up at full future price either. For Gordon to get that security of 3 extra years now in a pandemic with some injury concerns, he has to take a little less than he could conceivably get next offseason.

The other factor is, that's Jaylen's exact deal. Going any higher could ruffle feathers. Matching it seems pretty fair all around and works out perfectly to dodge the tax next year.

[hugepatsfan]

If the team is willing to do a 4 year deal, I think something will get done with Hayward. With a 4th year I think you can work out enough long term money that it's enough for him to opt out for but also a low enough '20-21 salary that we can avoid the tax. That math is tougher if we try to squeeze all the money into 3 years t set ourselves up for cap space down the line.

I could see 4 years, $107M if they want to use Jaylen's deal as a starting point. I do think the time value of money needs to be considered though. $23.8M is asking him to take a $10.4M paycut next year. That's tough. I could see a 4 year, $107M but don't think it would be structured with such a huge drop in '20-21. I think it'd be closer to straight line. $107M/4 years is $26.75M/year. We can get under the tax at that number if we make some other moves.

And there's also value to us in that as well. The idea here is that we get under the tax in '20-21 and the go over in future years. So there's a benefit to us to NOT backload the deal since those back years are the ones we are paying tax on. Ideally we would want to front load as much as possible while still avoiding the tax. That pulls money out of future years where we would not only pay that salary, but additional tax on it.

[djFan71]

If the team is willing to do a 4 year deal, I think something will get done with Hayward. With a 4th year I think you can work out enough long term money that it's enough for him to opt out for but also a low enough '20-21 salary that we can avoid the tax. That math is tougher if we try to squeeze all the money into 3 years t set ourselves up for cap space down the line.

I could see 4 years, $107M if they want to use Jaylen's deal as a starting point. I do think the time value of money needs to be considered though. $23.8M is asking him to take a $10.4M paycut next year. That's tough. I could see a 4 year, $107M but don't think it would be structured with such a huge drop in '20-21. I think it'd be closer to straight line. $107M/4 years is $26.75M/year. We can get under the tax at that number if we make some other moves.

And there's also value to us in that as well. The idea here is that we get under the tax in '20-21 and the go over in future years. So there's a benefit to us to NOT backload the deal since those back years are the ones we are paying tax on. Ideally we would want to front load as much as possible while still avoiding the tax. That pulls money out of future years where we would not only pay that salary, but additional tax on it.

Definitely. It's a bunch of inter-related levers. But something in this area feels right.

[hugepatsfan]

Before factoring in a new Hayward deal and assuming we salary dump Kanter and Poirier:

Yabusele (Dead) 1,039,080
Jackson (Dead) 92,857
Kemba Walker 34,379,100
Jaylen Brown 23,883,929
Marcus Smart 13,446,428
Jayson Tatum 9,897,120
Daniel Theis 5,000,000
Romeo Langford 3,631,200
#14 Pick 3,458,400
Grant Williams 2,498,760
#26 2,035,800
Robert Williams 2,029,920
#30 1,936,440
Semi Ojeleye 1,752,950
Carsen Edwards 1,517,981

That would be all the dead money and 14 players we have left. It's a total of $106,599,965. The rumored tax line is $132.7M so we'd be able to give Hayward a year 1 salary of $26,100,035 on a new deal.

Now, this assumes everyone else stays. In reality, it probably takes at least one of #26 or #30 to dump Kanter and Poirier. So replace one of those spots with a minimum salary for a little more room. We could decline the option on Ojeleye and sign a vet min player who would actually count slightly less on the cap because they count as year 2 minimum for tax reasons.

Ultimately, if the team wants to "have their cake and eat it too" in terms of both making some notable veteran outside improvements and staying below the tax, I think Langford and/or the #14 pick might have to go out in trades for that vet player or for future picks to open up MLE room.

If we were to take Aleksej Pokusevski at #14 and stash him, or Leandro Bolmaro at #26/#30 and stash him, then remove those salaries off the books as well. So that plays in too.

[djFan71]

Spoiler:

Before factoring in a new Hayward deal and assuming we salary dump Kanter and Poirier:

Yabusele (Dead) 1,039,080
Jackson (Dead) 92,857
Kemba Walker 34,379,100
Jaylen Brown 23,883,929
Marcus Smart 13,446,428
Jayson Tatum 9,897,120
Daniel Theis 5,000,000
Romeo Langford 3,631,200
#14 Pick 3,458,400
Grant Williams 2,498,760
#26 2,035,800
Robert Williams 2,029,920
#30 1,936,440
Semi Ojeleye 1,752,950
Carsen Edwards 1,517,981

That would be all the dead money and 14 players we have left. It's a total of $106,599,965. The rumored tax line is $132.7M so we'd be able to give Hayward a year 1 salary of $26,100,035 on a new deal.

Now, this assumes everyone else stays. In reality, it probably takes at least one of #26 or #30 to dump Kanter and Poirier. So replace one of those spots with a minimum salary for a little more room. We could decline the option on Ojeleye and sign a vet min player who would actually count slightly less on the cap because they count as year 2 minimum for tax reasons.

Ultimately, if the team wants to "have their cake and eat it too" in terms of both making some notable veteran outside improvements and staying below the tax, I think Langford and/or the #14 pick might have to go out in trades for that vet player or for future picks to open up MLE room.

If we were to take Aleksej Pokusevski at #14 and stash him, or Leandro Bolmaro at #26/#30 and stash him, then remove those salaries off the books as well. So that plays in too.

Javonte has $100k guarantee as well.

With the 9 for 14, 26, Poirier deal and Kanter to POR TPE (which I don't think costs us a pick), you end up slightly under $106M before Hayward (assuming 2 vet mins to get to 13). So you could start at $26M as well, that way. A Bolmaro stash is great too, because I think he's a good pick even if he does come, even better if we get to stash him. So not a pick just to stash scenario like Yabu.

And who knows where the tax actually ends up. I think it'll be an interesting fight between tax paying teams that planned for increases and poorer teams wanting more tax $. We've all been rightly planning based on it being flat, but even a tiny increase makes things so much easier.

[captain green]

Kevin Knox, Mitchell Robinson and number 8 for Langford Edwards porier 14, 26, 30 and a future swap 2nd round swap. Knicks front office is dumb so I give this a legit chance

[djFan71]

Thinking more, a stash of 26 or 30 doesn't save you a ton over vet min. $0.5M. Could matter, but ideally we're not drafting based on that difference. We won't know the rest of the moves at that point anyways.

[Darthlukey]

Kevin Knox, Mitchell Robinson and number 8 for Langford Edwards porier 14, 26, 30 and a future swap 2nd round swap. Knicks front office is dumb so I give this a legit chance

I would love that deal, but no way, not even the knicks, are that bad at trades

[captain green]

Kevin Knox, Mitchell Robinson and number 8 for Langford Edwards porier 14, 26, 30 and a future swap 2nd round swap. Knicks front office is dumb so I give this a legit chance

I would love that deal, but no way, not even the knicks, are that bad at trades

Are you sure lol

[Darthlukey]

Kevin Knox, Mitchell Robinson and number 8 for Langford Edwards porier 14, 26, 30 and a future swap 2nd round swap. Knicks front office is dumb so I give this a legit chance

I would love that deal, but no way, not even the knicks, are that bad at trades

Are you sure lol

You know what, time for some optimism, make it happen!