Welcome to Boston, Kristaps Porzingis!

[hugepatsfan]

There is absolutely zero reason to trade Porzingis this off-season unless the Celtics get a great deal. If they don't get that deal, then Porzingis can rehab his reputation with the Celtics during a soft rebuild year and the Celtics can re-look at things at the mid-season trade deadline. Makes no sense to sell low.

If we stay over the 2nd apron this year our 2032 pick automatically gets moved to #30 and we can't trade it until then. Our 2033 pick gets frozen next year and we stay over the 2nd apron again we lose the ability to trade that along with it going to #30. Those aren't basketball penalties/restrictions worth incurring in a Tatum injury year. They just aren't. Not even financially - BASKETBALL wise that makes no sense. You're neutering your ability to trade for championship pieces around Tatum when he's back.

If you wait until the deadline to deal Porzingis, his history says he's just as likely to be hurt and worthless as he is to have rehab his reputation which would mean we have to spend a lot to dump him. It's a tremendous amount of risk. It's not really viable to rely on a Porzingis deal midyear for NEEDED savings. If you get them from other trades to where you can handle being stuck with him, it's fine. But it's too risky to leave NEEDED savings for a mid year Porzingis trade.

[Riverwalk2021]

Thanks for the first half of Game 1 against Dallas but don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

[Celts17Pride]

There is absolutely zero reason to trade Porzingis this off-season unless the Celtics get a great deal. If they don't get that deal, then Porzingis can rehab his reputation with the Celtics during a soft rebuild year and the Celtics can re-look at things at the mid-season trade deadline. Makes no sense to sell low.

If we stay over the 2nd apron this year our 2032 pick automatically gets moved to #30 and we can't trade it until then. Our 2033 pick gets frozen next year and we stay over the 2nd apron again we lose the ability to trade that along with it going to #30. Those aren't basketball penalties/restrictions worth incurring in a Tatum injury year. They just aren't. Not even financially - BASKETBALL wise that makes no sense. You're neutering your ability to trade for championship pieces around Tatum when he's back.

If you wait until the deadline to deal Porzingis, his history says he's just as likely to be hurt and worthless as he is to have rehab his reputation which would mean we have to spend a lot to dump him. It's a tremendous amount of risk. It's not really viable to rely on a Porzingis deal midyear for NEEDED savings. If you get them from other trades to where you can handle being stuck with him, it's fine. But it's too risky to leave NEEDED savings for a mid year Porzingis trade.

I think you worry about this more than the Celtics do. Celtics will be below the 2nd apron in 2026/2027. There is a chance the Celtics resign Porzingis after next season to a much lower number. Stevens is not going to give Porzingis away.

[hugepatsfan]

There is absolutely zero reason to trade Porzingis this off-season unless the Celtics get a great deal. If they don't get that deal, then Porzingis can rehab his reputation with the Celtics during a soft rebuild year and the Celtics can re-look at things at the mid-season trade deadline. Makes no sense to sell low.

If we stay over the 2nd apron this year our 2032 pick automatically gets moved to #30 and we can't trade it until then. Our 2033 pick gets frozen next year and we stay over the 2nd apron again we lose the ability to trade that along with it going to #30. Those aren't basketball penalties/restrictions worth incurring in a Tatum injury year. They just aren't. Not even financially - BASKETBALL wise that makes no sense. You're neutering your ability to trade for championship pieces around Tatum when he's back.

If you wait until the deadline to deal Porzingis, his history says he's just as likely to be hurt and worthless as he is to have rehab his reputation which would mean we have to spend a lot to dump him. It's a tremendous amount of risk. It's not really viable to rely on a Porzingis deal midyear for NEEDED savings. If you get them from other trades to where you can handle being stuck with him, it's fine. But it's too risky to leave NEEDED savings for a mid year Porzingis trade.

I think you worry about this more than the Celtics do. Celtics will be below the 2nd apron in 2026/2027. There is a chance the Celtics resign Porzingis after next season to a much lower number. Stevens is not going to give Porzingis away.

Getting below the 2nd apron in 26-27 still means our 2032 pick goes to the end of the first round and is not tradable until the pick is made (and then we can trade players' rights). Ending the 2025-26 season means the 2033 pick is frozen until the end of the 26-27 season too. If we end the year under, it becomes unfrozen, but it stays frozen for the whole year. All of that is based on 25-26. Getting under in 26-27 does diddly poo to help that.

Brad Stevens built the entire supporting cast around Tatum/Brown with trades basically. Between those restrictions and the 2029 pick we owe from the Jrue trade, you're effectively neutering his ability to make trades. Can't imagine any scenario where he stays over the 2nd apron this year. It goes against everything he's shown us about how he builds teams.

[Celts17Pride]

If we stay over the 2nd apron this year our 2032 pick automatically gets moved to #30 and we can't trade it until then. Our 2033 pick gets frozen next year and we stay over the 2nd apron again we lose the ability to trade that along with it going to #30. Those aren't basketball penalties/restrictions worth incurring in a Tatum injury year. They just aren't. Not even financially - BASKETBALL wise that makes no sense. You're neutering your ability to trade for championship pieces around Tatum when he's back.

If you wait until the deadline to deal Porzingis, his history says he's just as likely to be hurt and worthless as he is to have rehab his reputation which would mean we have to spend a lot to dump him. It's a tremendous amount of risk. It's not really viable to rely on a Porzingis deal midyear for NEEDED savings. If you get them from other trades to where you can handle being stuck with him, it's fine. But it's too risky to leave NEEDED savings for a mid year Porzingis trade.

I think you worry about this more than the Celtics do. Celtics will be below the 2nd apron in 2026/2027. There is a chance the Celtics resign Porzingis after next season to a much lower number. Stevens is not going to give Porzingis away.

Getting below the 2nd apron in 26-27 still means our 2032 pick goes to the end of the first round and is not tradable until the pick is made (and then we can trade players' rights). Ending the 2025-26 season means the 2033 pick is frozen until the end of the 26-27 season too. If we end the year under, it becomes unfrozen, but it stays frozen for the whole year. All of that is based on 25-26. Getting under in 26-27 does diddly poo to help that.

Brad Stevens built the entire supporting cast around Tatum/Brown with trades basically. Between those restrictions and the 2029 pick we owe from the Jrue trade, you're effectively neutering his ability to make trades. Can't imagine any scenario where he stays over the 2nd apron this year. It goes against everything he's shown us about how he builds teams.

We will see. I don't think the Celtics will be below the 2nd apron this year. I think their focus is to get off of Hoilday and Hauser's future money and make sure they are below the 2nd apron in 2026/2027.

[hugepatsfan]

I think you worry about this more than the Celtics do. Celtics will be below the 2nd apron in 2026/2027. There is a chance the Celtics resign Porzingis after next season to a much lower number. Stevens is not going to give Porzingis away.

Getting below the 2nd apron in 26-27 still means our 2032 pick goes to the end of the first round and is not tradable until the pick is made (and then we can trade players' rights). Ending the 2025-26 season means the 2033 pick is frozen until the end of the 26-27 season too. If we end the year under, it becomes unfrozen, but it stays frozen for the whole year. All of that is based on 25-26. Getting under in 26-27 does diddly poo to help that.

Brad Stevens built the entire supporting cast around Tatum/Brown with trades basically. Between those restrictions and the 2029 pick we owe from the Jrue trade, you're effectively neutering his ability to make trades. Can't imagine any scenario where he stays over the 2nd apron this year. It goes against everything he's shown us about how he builds teams.

We will see. I don't think the Celtics will be below the 2nd apron this year. I think their focus is to get off of Hoilday and Hauser's future money and make sure they are below the 2nd apron in 2026/2027.

If that's their focus then they're already done. Assuming they draft/sign at #32, then WITH Jrue and Hauser on the books, they're about $17M below the 2nd apron for 26-27 with 11 players signed. Mission accomplished. No need to clear any more future money.

[Celts17Pride]

Getting below the 2nd apron in 26-27 still means our 2032 pick goes to the end of the first round and is not tradable until the pick is made (and then we can trade players' rights). Ending the 2025-26 season means the 2033 pick is frozen until the end of the 26-27 season too. If we end the year under, it becomes unfrozen, but it stays frozen for the whole year. All of that is based on 25-26. Getting under in 26-27 does diddly poo to help that.

Brad Stevens built the entire supporting cast around Tatum/Brown with trades basically. Between those restrictions and the 2029 pick we owe from the Jrue trade, you're effectively neutering his ability to make trades. Can't imagine any scenario where he stays over the 2nd apron this year. It goes against everything he's shown us about how he builds teams.

We will see. I don't think the Celtics will be below the 2nd apron this year. I think their focus is to get off of Hoilday and Hauser's future money and make sure they are below the 2nd apron in 2026/2027.

If that's their focus then they're already done. Assuming they draft/sign at #32, then WITH Jrue and Hauser on the books, they're about $17M below the 2nd apron for 26-27 with 11 players signed. Mission accomplished. No need to clear any more future money.

Celtics are not going to make bad basketball decisions so they are able to make more basketball decisions or move up 4-5 slots in 2032. That’s how you become the Hawks or the Kings in a hurry.

If the Celtics have good opportunities then they would love to move players and get below the 2nd apron and maybe out of the tax altogether. Celtics are not going to have a fire sale.

Becoming the Hawks or the Kings is not the goal

[hugepatsfan]

We will see. I don't think the Celtics will be below the 2nd apron this year. I think their focus is to get off of Hoilday and Hauser's future money and make sure they are below the 2nd apron in 2026/2027.

If that's their focus then they're already done. Assuming they draft/sign at #32, then WITH Jrue and Hauser on the books, they're about $17M below the 2nd apron for 26-27 with 11 players signed. Mission accomplished. No need to clear any more future money.

Celtics are not going to make bad basketball decisions so they are able to make more basketball decisions or move up 4-5 slots in 2032. That’s how you become the Hawks or the Kings in a hurry.

If the Celtics have good opportunities then they would love to move players and get below the 2nd apron and maybe out of the tax altogether. Celtics are not going to have a fire sale.

Becoming the Hawks or the Kings is not the goal

You become the Hawks or the Kings when you trade away all your future draft capital for a core that's not championship caliber. If they stay over the 2nd apron to keep Porzingis in a year Tatum is out for most of, they're basically trading a 2032 1st to do so. Sure, they'll eventually be able to make those picks but they'll remove it as a roster building tool until they can trade the draft rights to a player. You effectively remove them as assets to use during Tatum's prime. You say they won't make bad basketball moves. You also make it so you can't trade your 2033 pick next year, so again taking away tools.

You say they won't make bad basketball moves. Well, IMO, staying over the 2nd apron to keep an expiring Porzingis in his 30s and injury prone and/or Jrue into his mid 30s during a year Tatum won't play very much if at all is a bad basketball decision. Bad use of assets. Bad use of assets, tying them up and removing your ability to get better in the future is how you get locked into a middling team like ATL or SAC.

[Celts17Pride]

If that's their focus then they're already done. Assuming they draft/sign at #32, then WITH Jrue and Hauser on the books, they're about $17M below the 2nd apron for 26-27 with 11 players signed. Mission accomplished. No need to clear any more future money.

Celtics are not going to make bad basketball decisions so they are able to make more basketball decisions or move up 4-5 slots in 2032. That’s how you become the Hawks or the Kings in a hurry.

If the Celtics have good opportunities then they would love to move players and get below the 2nd apron and maybe out of the tax altogether. Celtics are not going to have a fire sale.

Becoming the Hawks or the Kings is not the goal

You become the Hawks or the Kings when you trade away all your future draft capital for a core that's not championship caliber. If they stay over the 2nd apron to keep Porzingis in a year Tatum is out for most of, they're basically trading a 2032 1st to do so. Sure, they'll eventually be able to make those picks but they'll remove it as a roster building tool until they can trade the draft rights to a player. You effectively remove them as assets to use during Tatum's prime. You say they won't make bad basketball moves. You also make it so you can't trade your 2033 pick next year, so again taking away tools.

You say they won't make bad basketball moves. Well, IMO, staying over the 2nd apron to keep an expiring Porzingis in his 30s and injury prone and/or Jrue into his mid 30s during a year Tatum won't play very much if at all is a bad basketball decision. Bad use of assets. Bad use of assets, tying them up and removing your ability to get better in the future is how you get locked into a middling team like ATL or SAC.

Celtics have plenty of time to unfreeze the assets, you know this.

[hugepatsfan]

Celtics are not going to make bad basketball decisions so they are able to make more basketball decisions or move up 4-5 slots in 2032. That’s how you become the Hawks or the Kings in a hurry.

If the Celtics have good opportunities then they would love to move players and get below the 2nd apron and maybe out of the tax altogether. Celtics are not going to have a fire sale.

Becoming the Hawks or the Kings is not the goal

You become the Hawks or the Kings when you trade away all your future draft capital for a core that's not championship caliber. If they stay over the 2nd apron to keep Porzingis in a year Tatum is out for most of, they're basically trading a 2032 1st to do so. Sure, they'll eventually be able to make those picks but they'll remove it as a roster building tool until they can trade the draft rights to a player. You effectively remove them as assets to use during Tatum's prime. You say they won't make bad basketball moves. You also make it so you can't trade your 2033 pick next year, so again taking away tools.

You say they won't make bad basketball moves. Well, IMO, staying over the 2nd apron to keep an expiring Porzingis in his 30s and injury prone and/or Jrue into his mid 30s during a year Tatum won't play very much if at all is a bad basketball decision. Bad use of assets. Bad use of assets, tying them up and removing your ability to get better in the future is how you get locked into a middling team like ATL or SAC.

Celtics have plenty of time to unfreeze the assets, you know this.

I do know that they have until the end of this year to do it. But I also know how injury prone Porzingis is. I also know that players at Jrue's age are high risk of their play dropping off a cliff at anytime. I think relying on a midseason trade for either of them to duck the 2nd apron would be irresponsibly risky. Too high a probability that the cost of making those cost savings move goes up exponentially. Right now I think you can move Porzingis and/or Jrue to get below the 2nd apron without giving anything up - maybe not get anything back besides the value you get from losing the 2nd apron restrictions for next year when Tatum is back, but not give anything up. Another Porzingis injury or Jrue showing real signs of age and now you probably have to give up a ton. IMO, that's too high a probability compared for them rebuilding their value by playing great and staying healthy for me to feel comfortable waiting on a midyear move to duck the 2nd apron.

Wyc already came out and said that the basketball penalties (not financial) of the 2nd apron are too restrictive to build with. He pretty much told us they view ducking the 2nd apron as something they need to do this year. Delaying dealing a 35 year old making $32.4M and $104M over 3 years and arguably the most injury prone player in the league making $30.7M this year in hopes of doing it later just makes no sense to me.

[Celts17Pride]

You become the Hawks or the Kings when you trade away all your future draft capital for a core that's not championship caliber. If they stay over the 2nd apron to keep Porzingis in a year Tatum is out for most of, they're basically trading a 2032 1st to do so. Sure, they'll eventually be able to make those picks but they'll remove it as a roster building tool until they can trade the draft rights to a player. You effectively remove them as assets to use during Tatum's prime. You say they won't make bad basketball moves. You also make it so you can't trade your 2033 pick next year, so again taking away tools.

You say they won't make bad basketball moves. Well, IMO, staying over the 2nd apron to keep an expiring Porzingis in his 30s and injury prone and/or Jrue into his mid 30s during a year Tatum won't play very much if at all is a bad basketball decision. Bad use of assets. Bad use of assets, tying them up and removing your ability to get better in the future is how you get locked into a middling team like ATL or SAC.

Celtics have plenty of time to unfreeze the assets, you know this.

I do know that they have until the end of this year to do it. But I also know how injury prone Porzingis is. I also know that players at Jrue's age are high risk of their play dropping off a cliff at anytime. I think relying on a midseason trade for either of them to duck the 2nd apron would be irresponsibly risky. Too high a probability that the cost of making those cost savings move goes up exponentially. Right now I think you can move Porzingis and/or Jrue to get below the 2nd apron without giving anything up - maybe not get anything back besides the value you get from losing the 2nd apron restrictions for next year when Tatum is back, but not give anything up. Another Porzingis injury or Jrue showing real signs of age and now you probably have to give up a ton. IMO, that's too high a probability compared for them rebuilding their value by playing great and staying healthy for me to feel comfortable waiting on a midyear move to duck the 2nd apron.

Wyc already came out and said that the basketball penalties (not financial) of the 2nd apron are too restrictive to build with. He pretty much told us they view ducking the 2nd apron as something they need to do this year. Delaying dealing a 35 year old making $32.4M and $104M over 3 years and arguably the most injury prone player in the league making $30.7M this year in hopes of doing it later just makes no sense to me.

Holiday is gone, mainly because of the future money

[hugepatsfan]

Celtics have plenty of time to unfreeze the assets, you know this.

I do know that they have until the end of this year to do it. But I also know how injury prone Porzingis is. I also know that players at Jrue's age are high risk of their play dropping off a cliff at anytime. I think relying on a midseason trade for either of them to duck the 2nd apron would be irresponsibly risky. Too high a probability that the cost of making those cost savings move goes up exponentially. Right now I think you can move Porzingis and/or Jrue to get below the 2nd apron without giving anything up - maybe not get anything back besides the value you get from losing the 2nd apron restrictions for next year when Tatum is back, but not give anything up. Another Porzingis injury or Jrue showing real signs of age and now you probably have to give up a ton. IMO, that's too high a probability compared for them rebuilding their value by playing great and staying healthy for me to feel comfortable waiting on a midyear move to duck the 2nd apron.

Wyc already came out and said that the basketball penalties (not financial) of the 2nd apron are too restrictive to build with. He pretty much told us they view ducking the 2nd apron as something they need to do this year. Delaying dealing a 35 year old making $32.4M and $104M over 3 years and arguably the most injury prone player in the league making $30.7M this year in hopes of doing it later just makes no sense to me.

Holiday is gone, mainly because of the future money

I think that's an aggressive presumption because of exactly that - the future money. The reason you want to get off of that is the reason other teams would be hesitant to take it on. And considering we really don't need to clear future money at all, I don't want to pay a premium to dump it. We need savings this year, not in the future. Heck, I'd almost rather keep Jrue's money on the books so I can attach picks to it for pieces that fit the next iteration of a Tatum/Brown/White core.

But if they clear Jrue's money to the point that they're below the 2nd apron or reasonably so that midseason moves are easy even if Porzingis is hurt, then for sure I'm ok with keeping him to the deadline and seeing what happens. But that's a VERY material change from our current situation. I don't think moving Jrue and clearing that much money is really feasible with the future years on it. Teams will want to send back multi year money to make up for what they're taking on and that's hard to clear.