Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

Just glancing at their contracts for 17-18...I cant believe they have almost $50,000,000 tied up next year in 5 guys(Shump, TT, JR Swish, RJ & Frye). I went back and avg'd their Finals ppg.

its abysmal, and for the 5 games the 5 combined to score 5.4 ppg as a group. This is after the team averaged 114 ppg. LOL

[ConstableGeneva]

No way I'm helping the Cavs get out of their bind.They're a mess right now and scrambling to find a way to beat the Dubs. **** their picks. Matching Love's salary also makes us lose several key pieces from our roster. IT/Love/Horford will struggle defensively. Not worth it! Lebron will leave next season. Go hard after George ourselves and challenge them this season.

[Froob]

No way I'm helping the Cavs get out of their bind.They're a mess right now and scrambling to find a way to beat the Dubs. **** their picks. Matching Love's salary also makes us lose several key pieces from our roster. IT/Love/Horford will struggle defensively. Not worth it! Lebron will leave next season. Go hard after George ourselves and challenge them this season.

This seems to make sense for everyone.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yafxahpz

[Banks2Pierce]

More and more, I'm getting convinced the two-star acquisition (1 via trade; 1 via FA) isn't the way to go mainly due to the astronomical paycheck/tax the owners would have to pay in the next few years.

Those calculations seem to come from IT making 30m and I think that's the part where we can get off the carousel. Can make it weird for the next star acquisition depending on when they hit FA if we had let IT walk, but I think we can make it work. Important to keep Crowder on the books because of his low number. Someone needs to make a calculator to plug in this nonsense.

[jfs1000d]

More and more, I'm getting convinced the two-star acquisition (1 via trade; 1 via FA) isn't the way to go mainly due to the astronomical paycheck/tax the owners would have to pay in the next few years.

Those calculations seem to come from IT making 30m and I think that's the part where we can get off the carousel. Can make it weird for the next star acquisition depending on when they hit FA if we had let IT walk, but I think we can make it work. Important to keep Crowder on the books because of his low number. Someone needs to make a calculator to plug in this nonsense.

Don't worry about wyc and his money.

The owners of the NBA, wyc is one of the 30, decided to enact this lux tax system. The players association would do away with it.

If wyc has to go deep into lux tax to win, then he should go deep. He has the ability to change that rule if he would like. He could get together with other owners and say I am not paying that. He owns the team, and the league. That lux tax was instituted by HIM.

So, I reject the premise that we have to be worried about lux tax as a fan base. The only consideration is roster flexibility. If you are gonna cap yourself out, you should make sure you don't lock yourself into a terrible contract that doesn't produce.

So. IT at $30 million is fine. I worry about years because I don't want to pay guys more than 3 years. But, I have no problem giving him huge money in the short term, AFTER we made our big acquisitions.

But I would go 4 for $120 mil with Isaiah after we get hayward and either griffin or butler.


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[The_Ghost_of_JB]

No way I'm helping the Cavs get out of their bind.They're a mess right now and scrambling to find a way to beat the Dubs. **** their picks. Matching Love's salary also makes us lose several key pieces from our roster. IT/Love/Horford will struggle defensively. Not worth it! Lebron will leave next season. Go hard after George ourselves and challenge them this season.

Crazy that a team that has made it to the finals three years in a row is considered a mess. Personally I think Griffin as a GM is overrated. The moves he made were spearheaded by Lebron (The Love trade, signing Smith and TT) and he didn't do a great job with the bench either (not that I think it is easy creating a bench with vet min guys)

They cannot compete with the warriors and don't think Gilbert wants to keep forking over an insane amount of luxury tax money just so the cavs can lose in the finals every year. They are in salary cap hell and I don't see any moves they can make that can improve the team. James in no doubt gone unless somehow they can make a Love for George trade.

[165bows]

More and more, I'm getting convinced the two-star acquisition (1 via trade; 1 via FA) isn't the way to go mainly due to the astronomical paycheck/tax the owners would have to pay in the next few years.

Those calculations seem to come from IT making 30m and I think that's the part where we can get off the carousel. Can make it weird for the next star acquisition depending on when they hit FA if we had let IT walk, but I think we can make it work. Important to keep Crowder on the books because of his low number. Someone needs to make a calculator to plug in this nonsense.

That's why I like the 2 FA scenario. A trade/FA move is cheaper for the first year or two (one for George, two for Butler), but it's after the first year when Thomas gets his extension where it really matters.

The third year is all fairly well the same unless they just let Horford walk in his option year.

[chrisab123]

It's funny that I'm on a fan forum that has posters who care about Wyc's bottom line concerning the luxury tax. He's already on record as not giving a **** about paying it for a contender. If they trade for George I'm about 90% sure he resigns. It would mean another player is probably coming in as well. Why leave that?

[Jaqua92]

It's funny that I'm on a fan forum that has posters who care about Wyc's bottom line concerning the luxury tax. He's already on record as not giving a **** about paying it for a contender. If they trade for George I'm about 90% sure he resigns. It would mean another player is probably coming in as well. Why leave that?

Yup, a lot of people here enjoy playing gm.

Gimmie George. To predict that anyone in this or next draft is that quality of talent is fruitless

[Banks2Pierce]

Don't worry about wyc and his money.

Could be talking a $100m tax bill before we even hit repeater tax territory. Comes into play in a lot of these scenarios so it is something to consider here with our expectations. That gets beyond Wyc's money, I'm guessing.

[CollegeToPros]

No way I'm helping the Cavs get out of their bind.They're a mess right now and scrambling to find a way to beat the Dubs. **** their picks. Matching Love's salary also makes us lose several key pieces from our roster. IT/Love/Horford will struggle defensively. Not worth it! Lebron will leave next season. Go hard after George ourselves and challenge them this season.

AND 1,000.

If Lebron leaves Cleveland, the Celtics become the power in the East.

[24istheLAW]

It's funny that I'm on a fan forum that has posters who care about Wyc's bottom line concerning the luxury tax. He's already on record as not giving a **** about paying it for a contender. If they trade for George I'm about 90% sure he resigns. It would mean another player is probably coming in as well. Why leave that?

Yup, a lot of people here enjoy playing gm.

Gimmie George. To predict that anyone in this or next draft is that quality of talent is fruitless

It's not so much "playing GM", as it is acknowledging that the NBA is a business. Wyc has gone into the tax before, but there's still a line somewhere. We just don't know what it is for him.

[tombattor]

It's funny that I'm on a fan forum that has posters who care about Wyc's bottom line concerning the luxury tax. He's already on record as not giving a **** about paying it for a contender. If they trade for George I'm about 90% sure he resigns. It would mean another player is probably coming in as well. Why leave that?

Yup, a lot of people here enjoy playing gm.

Gimmie George. To predict that anyone in this or next draft is that quality of talent is fruitless

As do you. But risk of him leaving after 1 year is real vs drafting a guy who will be under your control for 5v years at relatively cheap price. Of course if it's straight player for player, George will most likely better than any rookie. But you can't operate on nothing but best case scenario.

[Stadium5]

It's funny that I'm on a fan forum that has posters who care about Wyc's bottom line concerning the luxury tax. He's already on record as not giving a **** about paying it for a contender. If they trade for George I'm about 90% sure he resigns. It would mean another player is probably coming in as well. Why leave that?

Yup, a lot of people here enjoy playing gm.

Gimmie George. To predict that anyone in this or next draft is that quality of talent is fruitless

It's not so much "playing GM", as it is acknowledging that the NBA is a business. Wyc has gone into the tax before, but there's still a line somewhere. We just don't know what it is for him.

Exactly. You could be a contender and come up short 2-3 years in a row after catching some tough breaks...does the owner whose hemorrhaging money from the luxury tax just keep on willingly burning dollars for the sake of coming up short year after year? Could lead him to start getting cheap and we'll find ourselves trading away a Harden for the sake of saving some extra money. It matters

[ConstableGeneva]

More and more, I'm getting convinced the two-star acquisition (1 via trade; 1 via FA) isn't the way to go mainly due to the astronomical paycheck/tax the owners would have to pay in the next few years.

Those calculations seem to come from IT making 30m and I think that's the part where we can get off the carousel. Can make it weird for the next star acquisition depending on when they hit FA if we had let IT walk, but I think we can make it work. Important to keep Crowder on the books because of his low number. Someone needs to make a calculator to plug in this nonsense.

Even at a very generous hometown discount of $20M for IT in his 1st year, the salary between four guys would be $111,973,710.00 with the cap at $102M and lux tax threshold at $124M. Add in Brown, Smart (ex. $12M), BKN 2018 (3rd pick), #3, and Zizic = $32,269,080. Fill in the roster with four five-year vets at minimum = $6,838,152.

Total salary is at $151,080,942.00. Using old CBA tax comp (if it hasn't changed), luxury tax would be $115,094,003.50.
Total bill: $266,174,945.50.

I could be wrong with my math/assumptions, but I don't think I'm far off (someone please check my homework). I'm sure Zarren has already made several of these scenarios/salary computations and have shown them to the owners. If a two-star acquisition happens, then it indicates they're willing to pay for it. Good for us fans! But that cost is huge and will only go up every year.

[ConstableGeneva]

Don't worry about wyc and his money.

Could be talking a $100m tax bill before we even hit repeater tax territory. Comes into play in a lot of these scenarios so it is something to consider here with our expectations. That gets beyond Wyc's money, I'm guessing.

Did the "math". See above. You're close. It gets worse esp when repeater tax kicks in.

[Homerclease]

3 + Crowder + Bradley and some lesser picks for Butler. Get it done and let's get our free agent

[chrisab123]

It's funny that I'm on a fan forum that has posters who care about Wyc's bottom line concerning the luxury tax. He's already on record as not giving a **** about paying it for a contender. If they trade for George I'm about 90% sure he resigns. It would mean another player is probably coming in as well. Why leave that?

Yup, a lot of people here enjoy playing gm.

Gimmie George. To predict that anyone in this or next draft is that quality of talent is fruitless

As do you. But risk of him leaving after 1 year is real vs drafting a guy who will be under your control for 5v years at relatively cheap price. Of course if it's straight player for player, George will most likely better than any rookie. But you can't operate on nothing but best case scenario.

The #3 for him is a non starter. But would I trade the Memphis pick and or Bostons own first this year. Yup. But Wyc wants a winner. Did Yankee fans care when Steinbrenner went over the luxury tax? The Celtics have a golden opportunity with LeBron most likely leaving next year.

[soxfan2003]

It's funny that I'm on a fan forum that has posters who care about Wyc's bottom line concerning the luxury tax. He's already on record as not giving a **** about paying it for a contender. If they trade for George I'm about 90% sure he resigns. It would mean another player is probably coming in as well. Why leave that?

Has Wyc gone on record saying he is willing to lose 50-100 million a year? Maybe he has but I never saw him say that.... Wyc went on record a long time ago about the tax when it was a slap on the wrist compared to today's tax. Celtics were still pretty much break even when they were contending for championships with PP/KG/RA and paying some fairly modest luxury tax.

The Celtics under Wyc's ownership according to what I see with Forbes have never lost significant money in any year I can see. Operating income was just low during the relatively high spending days with a luxury tax that was absolutely nothing compared to today. Operating income seem very good nowadays but that quickly disappears with any significant amount of tax.

I think people are wrong if they think Wyc/his partners are going to sign up to be taking a huge loss. I could see losing around 30-40 million in a year as like a one time thing if a key contract was expiring the next year but I will believe a much bigger loss than that when I see it.

I have never seen it under Wyc and I don't blame the guy for it. He isn't Ballmer or anywhere close and C's don't have Lakers revenue stream. Celtics are a business after all....

There is a chance even the Warriors with a higher revenue stream and their great team lose Iggy and they obviously really want to keep him. But what if some non contender offers him 3-4 years at 20 million a year. Becomes hard to justify so its a game of chicken if Iggy isn't willing to play for a discount/realistic price with Golden State. Warriors can't afford to get into a bidding war for their entire bench.

Luxury tax nowadays is flat out devastating and financially crippling to nearly every team. Most owners don't like to throw money into the toilet but they won't say that to fans.

There is a huge, huge difference between paying a small/modest amount of tax -- I have no doubt that Wyc would pay that for the right team.

[chrisab123]

It's funny that I'm on a fan forum that has posters who care about Wyc's bottom line concerning the luxury tax. He's already on record as not giving a **** about paying it for a contender. If they trade for George I'm about 90% sure he resigns. It would mean another player is probably coming in as well. Why leave that?

Has Wyc gone on record saying he is willing to lose 50-100 million a year? Maybe he has but I never saw him say that.... Wyc went on record a long time ago about the tax when it was a slap on the wrist compared to today's tax. Celtics were still pretty much break even when they were contending for championships with PP/KG/RA and paying some fairly modest luxury tax.

The Celtics under Wyc's ownership according to what I see with Forbes have never lost significant money in any year I can see. Operating income was just low during the relatively high spending days with a luxury tax that was absolutely nothing compared to today. Operating income seem very good nowadays but that quickly disappears with any significant amount of tax.

I think people are wrong if they think Wyc/his partners are going to sign up to be taking a huge loss. I could see losing around 30-40 million in a year as like a one time thing if a key contract was expiring the next year but I will believe a much bigger loss than that when I see it.

I have never seen it under Wyc and I don't blame the guy for it. He isn't Ballmer or anywhere close and C's don't have Lakers revenue stream. Celtics are a business after all....

There is a chance even the Warriors with a higher revenue stream and their great team lose Iggy and they obviously really want to keep him. But what if some non contender offers him 3-4 years at 20 million a year. Becomes hard to justify so its a game of chicken if Iggy isn't willing to play for a discount/realistic price with Golden State. Warriors can't afford to get into a bidding war for their entire bench.

Luxury tax nowadays is flat out devastating and financially crippling to nearly every team. Most owners don't like to throw money into the toilet but they won't say that to fans.

There is a huge, huge difference between paying a small/modest amount of tax -- I have no doubt that Wyc would pay that for the right team.

He told KD in his meeting that he was willing to spend whatever it took for a sustained winner. That's enough for me to draw the conclusion that he really doesn't care provided the team can win.

So I'll say this again. Why is this a big deal? Why should we tell him what he frankly can and cannot spend. If Wyc wants to spend then whatever. Besides you claim going over is cripping. Losing 100 million dollars is misleading. What you're leaving out is the added revenue of playoff games, NBA finals appearances, merchandise, ticket sales concessions etc...so the number becomes more favorable taking that into consideration as well. 100 million is a worst case scenario. One that you're also assuming the Celtics max out IT. They aren't going to be rolling with 4 max guys on this team.