ImageImageImage

2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22

Moderators: bisme37, Parliament10, canman1971, shackles10, snowman, Froob, Darthlukey, Shak_Celts

Hal14
RealGM
Posts: 22,195
And1: 21,046
Joined: Apr 05, 2019

Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1141 » by Hal14 » Fri Jun 9, 2023 10:51 pm

big-shot-ROB wrote:Nnaji is incredibly raw. No chance the BOS draft him and no chance he should come right away. I'd give him 2-3 stash years and then re-evaluate. He's a 45+ pick.

Eh, idk man. Duren was raw too but he was the 13th pick and in the pistons rotation all season - started 31 games, even though he was only 18 when the season started.

Nnaji has already shown flashes of facing up and taking dudes off the dribble, at age 18 in the EuroLeague.

Nnaji battled head to head against Edy Tavares, the best big man in Europe (7'3", 290 lbs, 7'9" wingspan, 30 yrs old) and more than held his own.

This was from a game in April where he gets the put-back, dunking it on Tavares at 2:14:


This game was in january - check out 54:55 when he bodies up Tavares, plays tough D, forces Tavares to miss the shot, then snags the rebound:


Look at this play, his defensive awareness, how locked in he is, the footwork/mobility and how he's talking on defense, pointing out where his teammate should go, etc.
Read on Twitter
?s=20

In this game, he had 18 points (7/7 FG) in a EuroLeague game - the 2nd best league in the world, after the NBA.
Read on Twitter
?s=20&t=uztnyRElVWRov8rLt-5_OQ

If you think he shouldn't go any higher than 45, we can agree to disagree. Pretty much every mock has him going quite a bit higher than that.

I think that if we do draft Nnaji, there's a good chance we stash him for a year or 2 - so we are kind of in agreement there. Knicks drafted a guy 34th a couple years ago and have stashed him since then. So certainly a possibility for us to take Nnaji at 35 and stash him.

We'll see..
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything :)
User avatar
big-shot-ROB
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,576
And1: 1,669
Joined: May 18, 2017
   

Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1142 » by big-shot-ROB » Sat Jun 10, 2023 8:35 am

Hal14 wrote:
big-shot-ROB wrote:Nnaji is incredibly raw. No chance the BOS draft him and no chance he should come right away. I'd give him 2-3 stash years and then re-evaluate. He's a 45+ pick.

Eh, idk man. Duren was raw too but he was the 13th pick and in the pistons rotation all season - started 31 games, even though he was only 18 when the season started.

Nnaji has already shown flashes of facing up and taking dudes off the dribble, at age 18 in the EuroLeague.

Nnaji battled head to head against Edy Tavares, the best big man in Europe (7'3", 290 lbs, 7'9" wingspan, 30 yrs old) and more than held his own.

This was from a game in April where he gets the put-back, dunking it on Tavares at 2:14:


This game was in january - check out 54:55 when he bodies up Tavares, plays tough D, forces Tavares to miss the shot, then snags the rebound:


Look at this play, his defensive awareness, how locked in he is, the footwork/mobility and how he's talking on defense, pointing out where his teammate should go, etc.
Read on Twitter
?s=20

In this game, he had 18 points (7/7 FG) in a EuroLeague game - the 2nd best league in the world, after the NBA.
Read on Twitter
?s=20&t=uztnyRElVWRov8rLt-5_OQ

If you think he shouldn't go any higher than 45, we can agree to disagree. Pretty much every mock has him going quite a bit higher than that.

I think that if we do draft Nnaji, there's a good chance we stash him for a year or 2 - so we are kind of in agreement there. Knicks drafted a guy 34th a couple years ago and have stashed him since then. So certainly a possibility for us to take Nnaji at 35 and stash him.

We'll see..


I'm from Barcelona, don't mean that as a rude response or as an argument to negate everything you said but I feel pretty confident having watched every Barça match every week that he's years away from contributing. He doesn't process the game either at high speed. I think he's a 2nd round stash prospect and if you're stashing him I think 40th+ seems about right.

30-40 looks like a range you might want to get you some interesting two ways. No way Nnaji is interested in rotting in the G-League while he could be playing Euroleague
Robert Horry is better than MJ, because everybody knows that 7>6.
Hal14
RealGM
Posts: 22,195
And1: 21,046
Joined: Apr 05, 2019

Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1143 » by Hal14 » Sat Jun 10, 2023 2:43 pm

Read on Twitter


Gueye has a nice balance between long term upside, while also being good/polished enough in the short term.

Long term upside: 20 yrs old, just started playing organized basketball 3 years ago. 6'11" with an intriguing skill set and good mobility for a dude of that size

Short term production: Here's the list of all PF/C freshmen/sophomores over the past 15 years, playing in a high major conference who were 6'10" or taller and posted an assist % of 14+, attempted 2+ threes per 100 possessions, had 20+ dunks, a blocks % of 2+, a steal % of 1+ and had a turnover % of 19 or under...

Mouhamed Gueye.

That's it - that's the list.
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything :)
User avatar
Half-Full
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,408
And1: 2,321
Joined: Jul 10, 2016
       

Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1144 » by Half-Full » Sat Jun 10, 2023 4:59 pm

Hal14 wrote:
big-shot-ROB wrote:Nnaji is incredibly raw. No chance the BOS draft him and no chance he should come right away. I'd give him 2-3 stash years and then re-evaluate. He's a 45+ pick.

Eh, idk man. Duren was raw too but he was the 13th pick and in the pistons rotation all season - started 31 games, even though he was only 18 when the season started.

Nnaji has already shown flashes of facing up and taking dudes off the dribble, at age 18 in the EuroLeague.

Nnaji battled head to head against Edy Tavares, the best big man in Europe (7'3", 290 lbs, 7'9" wingspan, 30 yrs old) and more than held his own.

This was from a game in April where he gets the put-back, dunking it on Tavares at 2:14:


This game was in january - check out 54:55 when he bodies up Tavares, plays tough D, forces Tavares to miss the shot, then snags the rebound:


Look at this play, his defensive awareness, how locked in he is, the footwork/mobility and how he's talking on defense, pointing out where his teammate should go, etc.
Read on Twitter
?s=20

In this game, he had 18 points (7/7 FG) in a EuroLeague game - the 2nd best league in the world, after the NBA.
Read on Twitter
?s=20&t=uztnyRElVWRov8rLt-5_OQ

If you think he shouldn't go any higher than 45, we can agree to disagree. Pretty much every mock has him going quite a bit higher than that.

I think that if we do draft Nnaji, there's a good chance we stash him for a year or 2 - so we are kind of in agreement there. Knicks drafted a guy 34th a couple years ago and have stashed him since then. So certainly a possibility for us to take Nnaji at 35 and stash him.

We'll see..


Nnaji is one of several players at the top of my list. Based on positional need, talent, and potential, he would be a great pick IMO. Barring a trade, however, I don't see him landing with the Celtics, as he will likely be selected before our pick. Still, there is always a chance that we will luck out, and he will still be on the board when we pick. Also, a small chance that we successfully trade up, however, if Brad does so, it may be because he has eyes on someone else. In any case, Nnaji looks like a winner to me.
Hal14
RealGM
Posts: 22,195
And1: 21,046
Joined: Apr 05, 2019

Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1145 » by Hal14 » Sat Jun 10, 2023 5:57 pm

Half-Full wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
big-shot-ROB wrote:Nnaji is incredibly raw. No chance the BOS draft him and no chance he should come right away. I'd give him 2-3 stash years and then re-evaluate. He's a 45+ pick.

Eh, idk man. Duren was raw too but he was the 13th pick and in the pistons rotation all season - started 31 games, even though he was only 18 when the season started.

Nnaji has already shown flashes of facing up and taking dudes off the dribble, at age 18 in the EuroLeague.

Nnaji battled head to head against Edy Tavares, the best big man in Europe (7'3", 290 lbs, 7'9" wingspan, 30 yrs old) and more than held his own.

This was from a game in April where he gets the put-back, dunking it on Tavares at 2:14:


This game was in january - check out 54:55 when he bodies up Tavares, plays tough D, forces Tavares to miss the shot, then snags the rebound:


Look at this play, his defensive awareness, how locked in he is, the footwork/mobility and how he's talking on defense, pointing out where his teammate should go, etc.
Read on Twitter
?s=20

In this game, he had 18 points (7/7 FG) in a EuroLeague game - the 2nd best league in the world, after the NBA.
Read on Twitter
?s=20&t=uztnyRElVWRov8rLt-5_OQ

If you think he shouldn't go any higher than 45, we can agree to disagree. Pretty much every mock has him going quite a bit higher than that.

I think that if we do draft Nnaji, there's a good chance we stash him for a year or 2 - so we are kind of in agreement there. Knicks drafted a guy 34th a couple years ago and have stashed him since then. So certainly a possibility for us to take Nnaji at 35 and stash him.

We'll see..


Nnaji is one of several players at the top of my list. Based on positional need, talent, and potential, he would be a great pick IMO. Barring a trade, however, I don't see him landing with the Celtics, as he will likely be selected before our pick. Still, there is always a chance that we will luck out, and he will still be on the board when we pick. Also, a small chance that we successfully trade up, however, if Brad does so, it may be because he has eyes on someone else. In any case, Nnaji looks like a winner to me.

Yup. The upside is very intriguing - especially with the size, physique, mobility, athleticism, footwork & being a contributor for a team like FC Barcelona at such a young age.

Really think there's a decent chance that Nnaji eventually becomes an all-defense player and/or a top 10 big man in the NBA.
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything :)
Hal14
RealGM
Posts: 22,195
And1: 21,046
Joined: Apr 05, 2019

Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1146 » by Hal14 » Sat Jun 10, 2023 7:48 pm

Digging a little deeper into Jordan Walsh.

Scouting report vid:


The vid says he's 6'6" but at the combine he measured 6'6.75". The NBA rounds that up, so he would officially be listed at 6'7".

The combination of 7'2" wingspan with age (just turned 19, won't turn 20 till next march) gives him some intriguing upside.

The defense you see in the vid is VERY impressive - especially considering he was only 18 during the season and was facing tough competition in the SEC.

Some of the weaknesses the vid talks about are off the dribble creation, finishing at the rim, outside shooting and lack touch on shooting in the mid range.

But in this vid, we see a strong take and finish at the rim on the break:


In this vid, we see a catch and shoot 3 as well as a couple of shots in the mid range area:
Read on Twitter


At the combine, he showed the ability to hit the open 3 and had a few nice drives + finishes at the rim:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/o6A15yA9-F0

Showed good improvement as a shooter as the season went on. The improvement is probably due to hard work, getting more comfortable with the college game, getting used to the deeper 3 pt line. May have made some tweaks to his shot during the season too.

From 3, First 17 games: 22.5%
From 3, Last 19 games: 34.4%

FT's, first 21 games: 69%
FTs, last 15 games: 74%

He also shot the ball pretty well in the drills at the combine. And the shooting form doesn't look bad.

Lastly, I like this interview clip. Does a nice job of selling himself to NBA teams. Talks about what he brings: defensive versatility, shutting down the guy he's defending. Bringing the energy. And untapped potential on offense.

I also like how serious his demeanor is in this clip. Kind of like how he's not all smiles. He's got his game face on - like he's ready to just end the interview, run out onto the court and go to war :)

Read on Twitter
?s=20

The Celtics had him in for a workout. If they liked what they saw, would not be surprised at all if we took him with the 35th pick.

I wouldn't hate the pick at all. Perhaps you draft him at 35, snag a big man like Bediako as an UDFA and call it a day. That'd be a good draft, imo.
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything :)
User avatar
Celts17Pride
RealGM
Posts: 68,441
And1: 70,214
Joined: Nov 27, 2005

Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1147 » by Celts17Pride » Sat Jun 10, 2023 7:51 pm

I’ll be so disappointed if the Celtics take Jordan Walsh. He won’t get on the floor unless his shot improves dramatically. Celtics have enough guys who are a very little threat offensively.

Not to mention they already have a wing they drafted a few years ago that can’t shoot named Juhann Begarin
bigfoot_cryptozoology
Head Coach
Posts: 6,369
And1: 5,696
Joined: Jun 21, 2002

Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1148 » by bigfoot_cryptozoology » Sat Jun 10, 2023 11:26 pm

Read on Twitter


Jaime Jaquez Jr., UCLA
22 years old, 6-foot-6 wing, 226 pounds. 2022-23 stats: 17.8 points, 8.2 rebounds, 2.4 assists in 33.2 minutes per game.

Jaquez is one of those college players who contributed to winning but it’s unclear how his game will translate to the NBA. At 22, he likely won’t have huge strides to his game. But he’s a physical player who can find himself as part of an NBA rotation down the line.

He’ll need to improve on his shooting (career 32.8% 3-point shooter) if he wants to stick around the league. Jaquez also isn’t the most athletic player, and there are question marks about his defense going into the next level. But he could be one of those hard-nosed wings that works hard, which the Celtics can appreciate as part of their team building.


Emoni Bates, Eastern Michigan
19 years old, 6-foot-8 wing, 179 pounds. 2022-23 stats: 19.2 points, 5.8 rebounds, 1.4 assists in 33.5 minutes per game.

Here’s an interesting name in that even casual fans will at least recognize who Bates is because of the hype coming out of college. The former top prospect tumbled after his lone season at Memphis, but he scored well after building his draft stock up somewhat at his hometown school in Eastern Michigan. There are still flaws, but the talent and potential are also still there.

Bates has played the last two seasons in college, but he reclassified so he doesn’t turn 20 until next January. If the Celtics are looking to take a swing on a wing, then Bates could be that option. Realistically, he’ll need to add weight and some seasoning once he gets to the pros. But at this point in his career, he’s an intriguing prospect.


Julian Phillips, Tennessee
19 years old, 6-foot-7 wing, 197 pounds. 2022-23 stats: 8.3 points, 4.7 rebounds, 1.4 assists in 24.1 minutes per game.

Phillips, the former five-star prospect, elected to stay in the 2023 draft right at the deadline instead of returning to college. The stats don’t pop out the page, but he was a solid contributor for a Vols team that made it to the Sweet 16 last season. There’s a lot to like about his frame and athleticism projecting to the next level.

At this point, Phillips looks like a player who can be a solid defender. The offense will need to come around and his shooting is a question mark at his point. He shot just 23.9% from 3 in college, but he also only took 46 attempts. His 82.2% on free throws shows that there could be a good shooter in his future, though. But at his frame and age, Phillips projects as a potential development player who could become a solid contributor.


Andre Jackson Jr., Connecticut
21 years old, 6-foot-5, 198 pounds. 2022-23 stats: 6.7 points, 6.2 rebounds and 4.7 assists in 29.1 minutes per game.

Another prospect who decided to stay in the draft, Jackson’s athleticism and intangibles impressed as he was a key part of UConn’s run to the national title. He’s a good slasher and that’s someone the Celtics could use as part of their offense. His playmaking is also a plus even though he wasn’t relied upon to score throughout the season.

While Jackson’s counting stats — particularly the scoring — don’t pop off the page, he was an important piece of the Huskies elsewhere. His defensive versatility is also a plus for a switch-heavy team like the Celtics. Jackson’s shooting will need to improve as that’s been a weakness in his game. But as an athlete who can make an impact seemingly everywhere else on the court, Jackson stands out at near the end of the first round or the beginning of the second round.


Marcus Sasser, Houston
22 years old, 6-foot-1 guard, 196 pounds. 2022-23 stats: 16.8 points, 2.8 rebounds, 3.1 assists in 30.8 minutes per game.

Sasser was plenty productive in college, but the Celtics could shy away from a scoring guard who was listed at just 6-foot-1 at the draft combine. Still, he won in college and worked on his game season after season. Sasser also hit 3-pointers later in his career and the 84.8% mark on free throws is a positive sign when it comes to shooting translating to the next level.

If the Celtics do end up picking Sasser, that could signal trades down the line. The C’s are currently stacked at point guard as a guy like Payton Pritchard couldn’t even get consistent minutes. But if there are some draft night moves and the front office likes Sasser’s game, that could be the direction they go.
Hal14
RealGM
Posts: 22,195
And1: 21,046
Joined: Apr 05, 2019

Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1149 » by Hal14 » Sun Jun 11, 2023 1:55 am

Celts17Pride wrote:I’ll be so disappointed if the Celtics take Jordan Walsh. He won’t get on the floor unless his shot improves dramatically. Celtics have enough guys who are a very little threat offensively.

Not to mention they already have a wing they drafted a few years ago that can’t shoot named Juhann Begarin

First of all, Walsh just turned 19. If a title contender like the Celtics drafts him, it's for the long term upside - not necessarily to play right away in year 1. By the time he's ready (in year 2 or year 3) the Celtics roster could look vastly different than it does today.

Secondly, pretty much everyone on our roster is a threat offensively. Tatum and brown are 2 of the best scorers in the league. When you have 2 guys averaging 27+ PPG, you only need a little more firepower - and we have that. Smart is a good passer, can score in iso situations pretty well when he picks his pots, especially when he backs down smaller guards in the post. Brogdon shoots lights out and can create off the dribble pretty well. White has improved a lot as a shooter, good passer, decent at driving and scoring off his drives. Grant can shoot (and improved quite a bit this season attacking off the bounce), Hauser and Pritchard can shoot, Al can shoot (and is a good passer). Rob is the best lob finisher in the league, good finisher out of dunker's spot, on put-backs, good passer. Muscala shoots lights out, we'll get Gallo back healthy who can post up, make good passes, can shoot, drive.

Thirdly, between the scouting report vid I posted and the other stuff I posted, you can see that while Walsh is a little bit limited offensively, he shows good flashes with shooting off the catch, battling/hustling for offensive boards and put-backs, does a good job of pushing the ball in transition which leads to easy baskets for his team, shows flashes of some good drives and finishes at the rim and is a really good/smart/unselfish passer. There's a lot there to work with (along with elite defense and really high motor) and considering he's so young (just turned 19) there's a lot of room for development. 2 years from now, he could be a beast on both ends of the floor.

Fourthly, as I pointed out in my post, he showed good improvement in his shooting as the season went on. Last 19 games of the season he shot 34% from 3 (not too far below NBA league average which is 36%) and also keep in mind, most of the guys in the NBA who shoot 36% or higher are vets who have been in the league for awhile. The average 3 pt % among guys in this draft class is actually 31%. So Walsh (relative to others in this draft class) really isn't that bad of a shooter, especially considering he's younger than most of the guys in the draft class. Plus, his shooting form is decent, he shot pretty well at the draft combine and his 71% FT (74% over his last 15 games) is respectable.

Fifthly, I don't really think Begarin is factoring in much to who we draft with this pick. If Begarin ends up working out and contributing for the C's eventually, great. But at this point it seems like a long shot - which is no big deal. He was the 45th pick - most guys picked that late in the draft don't make it in the league.

Begarin and Walsh are different players. They're different people. Just because Begarin is a wing we drafted who has struggled with his outside shooting and hasn't played for us yet, that has nothing to do with Walsh or how Walsh projects as an NBA player.

Lastly, Begarin is still only 20 yrs old. He's still so young - still developing - who knows, he could end up being a good shooter and having a good career with the C's. And if he does, there's still room for Walsh to contribute - you can never have enough good, 2-way wings in the modern NBA.

Look, I get it. Drafting a guy who's not a very good shooter might not be ideal - especially with our shooting coach Ben Sullivan headed to Houston. But I feel like with Walsh being so young (and other factors mentioned above) that there's a pretty good chance he eventually ends up being a decent shooter. I also feel like any guy who is still available with the 35th pick is gonna have some serious flaws - if a dude is still available then and is a really good shooter, he's probably got some other flaws that are really bad that will scare you away..no prospect is perfect - especially this late in the draft.

You take a guy like this, knowing that even if he doesn't become a great shooter, he could still be a decent role player, with everything else that he does well (the rebounding, the defense, the passing, the length, the athleticism, strength, motor, flashes of driving to the rim). And if he does develop into a good shooter, he could be a REALLY good role player - or even a star (like he was in HS just a year ago), which would be a steal with the 35th pick.
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything :)
return2glory
RealGM
Posts: 17,040
And1: 10,796
Joined: Feb 24, 2005

Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1150 » by return2glory » Sun Jun 11, 2023 3:50 am





He is in my top 7 of who I want at with the 35th pick, if he is available at that spot. Wish we had to early second round picks.
User avatar
Celts17Pride
RealGM
Posts: 68,441
And1: 70,214
Joined: Nov 27, 2005

Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1151 » by Celts17Pride » Sun Jun 11, 2023 12:43 pm

Hal14 wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:I’ll be so disappointed if the Celtics take Jordan Walsh. He won’t get on the floor unless his shot improves dramatically. Celtics have enough guys who are a very little threat offensively.

Not to mention they already have a wing they drafted a few years ago that can’t shoot named Juhann Begarin

First of all, Walsh just turned 19. If a title contender like the Celtics drafts him, it's for the long term upside - not necessarily to play right away in year 1. By the time he's ready (in year 2 or year 3) the Celtics roster could look vastly different than it does today.

Secondly, pretty much everyone on our roster is a threat offensively. Tatum and brown are 2 of the best scorers in the league. When you have 2 guys averaging 27+ PPG, you only need a little more firepower - and we have that. Smart is a good passer, can score in iso situations pretty well when he picks his pots, especially when he backs down smaller guards in the post. Brogdon shoots lights out and can create off the dribble pretty well. White has improved a lot as a shooter, good passer, decent at driving and scoring off his drives. Grant can shoot (and improved quite a bit this season attacking off the bounce), Hauser and Pritchard can shoot, Al can shoot (and is a good passer). Rob is the best lob finisher in the league, good finisher out of dunker's spot, on put-backs, good passer. Muscala shoots lights out, we'll get Gallo back healthy who can post up, make good passes, can shoot, drive.

Thirdly, between the scouting report vid I posted and the other stuff I posted, you can see that while Walsh is a little bit limited offensively, he shows good flashes with shooting off the catch, battling/hustling for offensive boards and put-backs, does a good job of pushing the ball in transition which leads to easy baskets for his team, shows flashes of some good drives and finishes at the rim and is a really good/smart/unselfish passer. There's a lot there to work with (along with elite defense and really high motor) and considering he's so young (just turned 19) there's a lot of room for development. 2 years from now, he could be a beast on both ends of the floor.

Fourthly, as I pointed out in my post, he showed good improvement in his shooting as the season went on. Last 19 games of the season he shot 34% from 3 (not too far below NBA league average which is 36%) and also keep in mind, most of the guys in the NBA who shoot 36% or higher are vets who have been in the league for awhile. The average 3 pt % among guys in this draft class is actually 31%. So Walsh (relative to others in this draft class) really isn't that bad of a shooter, especially considering he's younger than most of the guys in the draft class. Plus, his shooting form is decent, he shot pretty well at the draft combine and his 71% FT (74% over his last 15 games) is respectable.

Fifthly, I don't really think Begarin is factoring in much to who we draft with this pick. If Begarin ends up working out and contributing for the C's eventually, great. But at this point it seems like a long shot - which is no big deal. He was the 45th pick - most guys picked that late in the draft don't make it in the league.

Begarin and Walsh are different players. They're different people. Just because Begarin is a wing we drafted who has struggled with his outside shooting and hasn't played for us yet, that has nothing to do with Walsh or how Walsh projects as an NBA player.

Lastly, Begarin is still only 20 yrs old. He's still so young - still developing - who knows, he could end up being a good shooter and having a good career with the C's. And if he does, there's still room for Walsh to contribute - you can never have enough good, 2-way wings in the modern NBA.

Look, I get it. Drafting a guy who's not a very good shooter might not be ideal - especially with our shooting coach Ben Sullivan headed to Houston. But I feel like with Walsh being so young (and other factors mentioned above) that there's a pretty good chance he eventually ends up being a decent shooter. I also feel like any guy who is still available with the 35th pick is gonna have some serious flaws - if a dude is still available then and is a really good shooter, he's probably got some other flaws that are really bad that will scare you away..no prospect is perfect - especially this late in the draft.

You take a guy like this, knowing that even if he doesn't become a great shooter, he could still be a decent role player, with everything else that he does well (the rebounding, the defense, the passing, the length, the athleticism, strength, motor, flashes of driving to the rim). And if he does develop into a good shooter, he could be a REALLY good role player - or even a star (like he was in HS just a year ago), which would be a steal with the 35th pick.

Type as many words as you want. Langford and Neismith couldn’t get consistent minutes and stick around because they couldn’t put the ball in the hoop consistently. Begarin and Walsh would just be more of the same.
Hal14
RealGM
Posts: 22,195
And1: 21,046
Joined: Apr 05, 2019

Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1152 » by Hal14 » Sun Jun 11, 2023 5:58 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:I’ll be so disappointed if the Celtics take Jordan Walsh. He won’t get on the floor unless his shot improves dramatically. Celtics have enough guys who are a very little threat offensively.

Not to mention they already have a wing they drafted a few years ago that can’t shoot named Juhann Begarin

First of all, Walsh just turned 19. If a title contender like the Celtics drafts him, it's for the long term upside - not necessarily to play right away in year 1. By the time he's ready (in year 2 or year 3) the Celtics roster could look vastly different than it does today.

Secondly, pretty much everyone on our roster is a threat offensively. Tatum and brown are 2 of the best scorers in the league. When you have 2 guys averaging 27+ PPG, you only need a little more firepower - and we have that. Smart is a good passer, can score in iso situations pretty well when he picks his pots, especially when he backs down smaller guards in the post. Brogdon shoots lights out and can create off the dribble pretty well. White has improved a lot as a shooter, good passer, decent at driving and scoring off his drives. Grant can shoot (and improved quite a bit this season attacking off the bounce), Hauser and Pritchard can shoot, Al can shoot (and is a good passer). Rob is the best lob finisher in the league, good finisher out of dunker's spot, on put-backs, good passer. Muscala shoots lights out, we'll get Gallo back healthy who can post up, make good passes, can shoot, drive.

Thirdly, between the scouting report vid I posted and the other stuff I posted, you can see that while Walsh is a little bit limited offensively, he shows good flashes with shooting off the catch, battling/hustling for offensive boards and put-backs, does a good job of pushing the ball in transition which leads to easy baskets for his team, shows flashes of some good drives and finishes at the rim and is a really good/smart/unselfish passer. There's a lot there to work with (along with elite defense and really high motor) and considering he's so young (just turned 19) there's a lot of room for development. 2 years from now, he could be a beast on both ends of the floor.

Fourthly, as I pointed out in my post, he showed good improvement in his shooting as the season went on. Last 19 games of the season he shot 34% from 3 (not too far below NBA league average which is 36%) and also keep in mind, most of the guys in the NBA who shoot 36% or higher are vets who have been in the league for awhile. The average 3 pt % among guys in this draft class is actually 31%. So Walsh (relative to others in this draft class) really isn't that bad of a shooter, especially considering he's younger than most of the guys in the draft class. Plus, his shooting form is decent, he shot pretty well at the draft combine and his 71% FT (74% over his last 15 games) is respectable.

Fifthly, I don't really think Begarin is factoring in much to who we draft with this pick. If Begarin ends up working out and contributing for the C's eventually, great. But at this point it seems like a long shot - which is no big deal. He was the 45th pick - most guys picked that late in the draft don't make it in the league.

Begarin and Walsh are different players. They're different people. Just because Begarin is a wing we drafted who has struggled with his outside shooting and hasn't played for us yet, that has nothing to do with Walsh or how Walsh projects as an NBA player.

Lastly, Begarin is still only 20 yrs old. He's still so young - still developing - who knows, he could end up being a good shooter and having a good career with the C's. And if he does, there's still room for Walsh to contribute - you can never have enough good, 2-way wings in the modern NBA.

Look, I get it. Drafting a guy who's not a very good shooter might not be ideal - especially with our shooting coach Ben Sullivan headed to Houston. But I feel like with Walsh being so young (and other factors mentioned above) that there's a pretty good chance he eventually ends up being a decent shooter. I also feel like any guy who is still available with the 35th pick is gonna have some serious flaws - if a dude is still available then and is a really good shooter, he's probably got some other flaws that are really bad that will scare you away..no prospect is perfect - especially this late in the draft.

You take a guy like this, knowing that even if he doesn't become a great shooter, he could still be a decent role player, with everything else that he does well (the rebounding, the defense, the passing, the length, the athleticism, strength, motor, flashes of driving to the rim). And if he does develop into a good shooter, he could be a REALLY good role player - or even a star (like he was in HS just a year ago), which would be a steal with the 35th pick.

Type as many words as you want. Langford and Neismith couldn’t get consistent minutes and stick around because they couldn’t put the ball in the hoop consistently. Begarin and Walsh would just be more of the same.

Ok. You know they're not all the same person, right? All 4 of them are different people. All very different players, with different backgrounds, different development paths. The Celtics have a different roster now, different coaches, etc. Just because 2 of them didn't pan out, definitely does not mean the others won't either. So you think they should just give up and never draft another wing ever again?

Also, Nesmith was considered an elite shooter coming out of college. So I'm not following your logic when you bring Nesmith up as a reason to not draft a wing who has shooting concerns.

Walsh is much bigger and stronger than both Nesmith and Langford..Walsh isn't injury prone like Langford.

Hauser can shoot (so can Pritchard) but neither is a good enough defender to get playoff minutes. Walsh is arguably the best defender in the draft, besides Wemby - especially considering that since Walsh is so young - the defense will keep getting better.
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything :)
Hal14
RealGM
Posts: 22,195
And1: 21,046
Joined: Apr 05, 2019

Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1153 » by Hal14 » Sun Jun 11, 2023 6:19 pm

Dude is a freak.

18 yrs old, doing this in the ACB (2nd best domestic league in the world, after the NBA) playoffs.

Read on Twitter


Potentially, long term replacement for Rob. Or, at least a solid backup for Rob..
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything :)
Kalela
RealGM
Posts: 13,538
And1: 12,404
Joined: May 16, 2011
Location: Northern Kentucky
   

Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1154 » by Kalela » Sun Jun 11, 2023 6:30 pm

Hal14 wrote:Dude is a freak.

18 yrs old, doing this in the ACB (2nd best domestic league in the world, after the NBA) playoffs.
Potentially, long term replacement for Rob. Or, at least a solid backup for Rob..


#77 on the other team in this video looks like a giant. I feel like even if Nnaji is still on the board by the time the Celtics draft, they will still pass on him. The Celtics are obsessed with stretch forwards and centers.
Edit: Extend Mazzulla
Hal14
RealGM
Posts: 22,195
And1: 21,046
Joined: Apr 05, 2019

Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1155 » by Hal14 » Sun Jun 11, 2023 6:35 pm

Kalela wrote:
Hal14 wrote:Dude is a freak.

18 yrs old, doing this in the ACB (2nd best domestic league in the world, after the NBA) playoffs.
Potentially, long term replacement for Rob. Or, at least a solid backup for Rob..


#77 on the other team in this video looks like a giant. I feel like even if Nnaji is still on the board by the time the Celtics draft, they will still pass on him. The Celtics are obsessed with stretch forwards and centers.

Maybe. But you never know - the last time we drafted a big, it was a non-shooting big (Rob).

Kornet, Griffin and Vonleh weren't very good shooters when we acquired them either.
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything :)
User avatar
Half-Full
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,408
And1: 2,321
Joined: Jul 10, 2016
       

Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1156 » by Half-Full » Sun Jun 11, 2023 6:49 pm

Hal14 wrote:Digging a little deeper into Jordan Walsh.

Scouting report vid:


The vid says he's 6'6" but at the combine he measured 6'6.75". The NBA rounds that up, so he would officially be listed at 6'7".

The combination of 7'2" wingspan with age (just turned 19, won't turn 20 till next march) gives him some intriguing upside.

The defense you see in the vid is VERY impressive - especially considering he was only 18 during the season and was facing tough competition in the SEC.

Some of the weaknesses the vid talks about are off the dribble creation, finishing at the rim, outside shooting and lack touch on shooting in the mid range.

But in this vid, we see a strong take and finish at the rim on the break:


In this vid, we see a catch and shoot 3 as well as a couple of shots in the mid range area:
Read on Twitter


At the combine, he showed the ability to hit the open 3 and had a few nice drives + finishes at the rim:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/o6A15yA9-F0

Showed good improvement as a shooter as the season went on. The improvement is probably due to hard work, getting more comfortable with the college game, getting used to the deeper 3 pt line. May have made some tweaks to his shot during the season too.

From 3, First 17 games: 22.5%
From 3, Last 19 games: 34.4%

FT's, first 21 games: 69%
FTs, last 15 games: 74%

He also shot the ball pretty well in the drills at the combine. And the shooting form doesn't look bad.

Lastly, I like this interview clip. Does a nice job of selling himself to NBA teams. Talks about what he brings: defensive versatility, shutting down the guy he's defending. Bringing the energy. And untapped potential on offense.

I also like how serious his demeanor is in this clip. Kind of like how he's not all smiles. He's got his game face on - like he's ready to just end the interview, run out onto the court and go to war :)

Read on Twitter
?s=20

The Celtics had him in for a workout. If they liked what they saw, would not be surprised at all if we took him with the 35th pick.

I wouldn't hate the pick at all. Perhaps you draft him at 35, snag a big man like Bediako as an UDFA and call it a day. That'd be a good draft, imo.


Jordan Walsh brings a lot to the table that I like. While his shooting is a concern, he is young, and his mechanics don't look that bad. With work, he can improve there. I too like his serious demeanor, and that he plays hard. He gets high marks for attitude. Let's face it, any player available at pick #35 will likely have flaws. Too old, too short, poor shooting, weak defender, etc., etc. Some flaws are more correctable than others. Jordan Walsh has some game. I would not have a problem if he is our pick. A rough diamond, yes, but with a little polishing...
User avatar
Parliament10
Forum Mod - Celtics
Forum Mod - Celtics
Posts: 51,720
And1: 60,894
Joined: Jul 24, 2009
       

Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1157 » by Parliament10 » Sun Jun 11, 2023 10:58 pm

Read on Twitter
"You have to put the work in.
Nothing is given."

~ Jayson Tatum
User avatar
Parliament10
Forum Mod - Celtics
Forum Mod - Celtics
Posts: 51,720
And1: 60,894
Joined: Jul 24, 2009
       

Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1158 » by Parliament10 » Sun Jun 11, 2023 11:10 pm

Who are Ausar and Amen Thompson?

Read on Twitter



Read on Twitter



What is the Overtime Elite (OTE)?

"You have to put the work in.
Nothing is given."

~ Jayson Tatum
User avatar
165bows
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 22,174
And1: 15,038
Joined: Jan 03, 2013
Location: The land of incremental improvement.

Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1159 » by 165bows » Sun Jun 11, 2023 11:51 pm

return2glory
RealGM
Posts: 17,040
And1: 10,796
Joined: Feb 24, 2005

Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1160 » by return2glory » Mon Jun 12, 2023 12:00 am



Jordan Miller is another player I like for us at 35.

TJD, Jaime Jaquez, Drew Peterson, Ben Sheppard, Brandin Podziemski, Adama Sanogo, James Nnaji and Jordan Miller in no particular order.

Return to Boston Celtics