The (Quadruple) Trade Thread, 2017 (Part 4.0)

[Ben-N1ce]

Amir and fillers for Vucevic is a no brainer. Not sure why Magic would be down for that.

[sully00]

If we're trading for a big man, I'd honestly try to trade AB for Noel.

-Were not going to pay 60M a year for a back court of AB and IT, and we clearly need to resign IT

-Noel's cap hold will be largely off-set by Bradley's salary, allowing us to still have max cap space

-The top draft prospects are guards who can largely play next to IT

-Noel would instantly both solidify our defense and improve our rebounding

I don't disagree with everything your saying here but the bold part is false and why Ainge won't make the deal. It actually does not impact our defense and rebounding at all because you make a huge hole in both aspects by trading Bradley. Bradley is 18% on the defensive glass and Noel 20%. I don't know what the numbers are but my eyeballs tell me this team's defense bottoms out without AB.

Then you factor in the difference on the offensive end and no way. I am fine with taking a flyer on Noel but no way do I deal away a core piece to acquire him expecting him to change the bottom line. I will deal with whether to pay Bradley or not when the time comes not before I even draft the guy who is supposedly going to be able to take his place.

[Captain_Caveman]

Theyre 10-4 because they've sat down Okafor for Noel. Okafor has an on/off +/- of -13, Noel is -5.8. That 7 point swing made a huge difference.

So he sucks less than a horrible player?

Yes and no. Straight +/- is a noisy statistic and heavily dependent on your peers. Noel is coming off the bench, and the sixers do not have a particularly strong bench. It'd be a shock if he was able to carry that team to a positive +/-.

Conversely, the most impressive thing about Joel Embiid is that the Sixers are outscoring their opponents with him on the court. He's a generational talent and it shows. Because of this and the fact that Noel doesn't play much with Embiid, Noel's on/off numbers will always look worse than his impact-- a +10 on/off guy playing behind a +20 guy will look like a -10 guy, when the reality is this is not an accurate reflection of who he is as a player.

Noel is significantly better than Okafor, who is straight ass. That's why the sixers are now winning.

They both suck.

[Smog]

But none of that matters! AAARGH!

If you really, really want Noel, sign him in the offseason for nothing. It makes absolutely no sense to give up anything apart from a draft pick for him now.

If Bradley's roster spot is burning a hole in your pocket and you feel like we need to get something for him before he walks, that's fine, too. Trade him. But not for a player who can leave in a few months and doesn't make you better now.

The obsession with Nerlens freaking Noel on this board is mind-blowing.

Your inability to comprehend what a restricted free agent is, despite it being explained multiple times, is as impressive a feat as I've seen on these boards.

We cannot outright sign Nerlens Noel this off-season. We can sign him to an offer sheet, but we'd have to hope that Philly doesn't match it. Given their loads of cap space, and no one really willing to take it, they're not going to let him walk. They will match it, guaranteed. After all, if a team is willing to offer him a max deal, chances are a team would be willing to trade for him on a max deal.

Nerlens Noel cannot walk this offseason from the Celtics. If they traded for him, they'd be prepared to do what it took to keep him. At a minimum, they'd be able to keep him for another year at the qualifying offer. There is no scenario where Nerlens Noel will walk away from the Celtics after 36 games if we traded for him.

If you don't think he's worth it as a player- fine. That's your opinion and you can't be swayed. But this crap about not wanting to trade for a player who can leave in 36 games doesn't apply to Noel. Nor does waiting to sign him on the offseason, because Philly will match. And this talk about trying to ban a trade topic because you disagree with it? GTFO.

[FeedReed]

bradley is always hurt anyway. his value won't get any higher than it is now. it's his time to go. noel would be much more important for the team.

[SmartWentCrazy]

If we're trading for a big man, I'd honestly try to trade AB for Noel.

-Were not going to pay 60M a year for a back court of AB and IT, and we clearly need to resign IT

-Noel's cap hold will be largely off-set by Bradley's salary, allowing us to still have max cap space

-The top draft prospects are guards who can largely play next to IT

-Noel would instantly both solidify our defense and improve our rebounding

I don't disagree with everything your saying here but the bold part is false and why Ainge won't make the deal. It actually does not impact our defense and rebounding at all because you make a huge hole in both aspects by trading Bradley. Bradley is 18% on the defensive glass and Noel 20%. I don't know what the numbers are but my eyeballs tell me this team's defense bottoms out without AB.

Then you factor in the difference on the offensive end and no way. I am fine with taking a flyer on Noel but no way do I deal away a core piece to acquire him expecting him to change the bottom line. I will deal with whether to pay Bradley or not when the time comes not before I even draft the guy who is supposedly going to be able to take his place.

I don't fully disagree with you regarding rebounds. My analysis is subjective, but is basically that the difference between Amir and Noel is greater than the difference between Smart and Bradley. I could be wrong, too, and fully acknowledge that I'm 100% basing it on opinion and not fact.

I feel I just can see the writing on the wall and that Ainge will get ahead of it. You cannot commit 60% of your cap to IT and AB, AB is about to enter the 'rental' zone and lose trade value and the top of the draft is very guard heavy. I believe we should look into dealing AB for a big man (maybe Noel isn't the best target, I'm not locked in on him), and, given Ainge's past with Rondo and Perkins, I wouldn't be shocked if a trade involving AB comes out of no where.

[Smog]

But none of that matters! AAARGH!

If you really, really want Noel, sign him in the offseason for nothing. It makes absolutely no sense to give up anything apart from a draft pick for him now.

If Bradley's roster spot is burning a hole in your pocket and you feel like we need to get something for him before he walks, that's fine, too. Trade him. But not for a player who can leave in a few months and doesn't make you better now.

The obsession with Nerlens freaking Noel on this board is mind-blowing.

Your inability to comprehend what a restricted free agent is, despite it being explained multiple times, is as impressive a feat as I've seen on these boards.

We cannot outright sign Nerlens Noel this off-season. We can sign him to an offer sheet, but we'd have to hope that Philly doesn't match it. Given their loads of cap space, and no one really willing to take it, they're not going to let him walk. They will match it, guaranteed. After all, if a team is willing to offer him a max deal, chances are a team would be willing to trade for him on a max deal.

NOTE: apologies for the double-post, I just tried to edit this, mods, I'm sorry.

Nerlens Noel cannot walk this offseason from the Celtics. If they traded for him, they'd be prepared to do what it took to keep him. At a minimum, they'd be able to keep him for another year at the qualifying offer. There is no scenario where Nerlens Noel will walk away from the Celtics after 36 games if we traded for him.

If you don't think he's worth it as a player- fine. That's your opinion and you can't be swayed. But this crap about not wanting to trade for a player who can leave in 36 games doesn't apply to Noel. Nor does waiting to sign him on the offseason, because Philly will match. And this talk about trying to ban a trade topic because you disagree with it? GTFO.

I absolutely understand how the RFA rules work. They would matter a lot more if this were a true indispensable star player. Noel is not that and therefore he can be had this summer, and it's mind-boggling that you don't see this.

If you seriously think that Philly is going to match a max offer for what would be a backup center behind Embiid, you're nuts. They'd end up paying two max contracts at the same position. And even if by some miracle they did value him that much, then that would mean they're not trading him for Avery Bradley. (And it goes without saying that if they value Noel as a max player, they're not giving us both Noel AND a lottery pick for a year and a half of Avery Bradley, who also needs to be paid huge money soon).

Moreover Noel has some say in this. He does not want to be behind Embiid. He has said so publicly. So if he has indications that Philly will match, he will sign his one-year tender and get the hell out in 2018. Philly knows this. The player and his agent will have explained this to the team long ago. That is why every reporter on the NBA beat is telling us the team is trying to trade him now, so they can get something for him before he walks this summer.

And if somehow they do trade him to us, there absolutely is a scenario where Noel walks after 36 games. It's if we don't value him as a max player. And the entire point is that if we do value him as a max player, we might as well just wait until summer and give him the max then.

However, let's say your worst fears are true. Philly feels like having two maxed-out centers and shells out the money this summer! Noel agrees to sign long term to be a backup! In that insanely unlikely set of circumstances, we shrug, go home, and run with Ante Zizic at center next year. The guy, Noel, is not Bill Russell.

[Captain_Caveman]

We aren't trading Bradley for Noel, and the Sixers aren't trading the Lakers pick for Bradley.

Get a hold of yourselves, men.

[GoCeltics123]

Nvm

[aim2please]

Spoiler:

From Stein

But sources say Boston's talks with Orlando to date on the Vucevic front haven't progressed past the exploratory stage ...

Like I wrote earlier, it really seems like Orlando is the one making the calls and shopping him rather than Boston wanting him. This is the same as Wolves leaking about Jackson - Rubio swap hoping to create a market for him.

Both players can play, in vacuum, but unfortunately for them, their skill set doesn't help you win games in 2017. If your PG can't shot and/or your center can't defend pick and rolls / protect the paint, you're in trouble.

For all of you thinking that Vuc would be a good addition, show me a team with a starting center like him that's winning games. *crickets*

He's in a Kanter, B.Lopez, Monroe, Jefferson, Okafor mold. Putting up stats on a losing team, or gets relegated to a bench role.

What is a starting C like him mean? He is nothing like Lopez or Okafor to start with. Monroe is a fair comparison Vucevic has a little more range to his game and is a little bit better defensively. Kanter is terrible defensively.

Boston is so bad rebounding the ball that adding a guy like Vucevic would vastly improve their defense by stopping the endless flow of offensive rebounds. That said every team has an identity and this team's particular trademark isn't defense it is offense. This guy could help offensively a ton.

The one thing I really like about Vucevic is that he is 26 and making 11.75 mil dollars and he is under contract for 2 more years. If you end up bringing him off the bench or only playing him part time mins he is only making what is back up big man money in the NBA now.

I respect you as a poster but I disagree with almost everything you just wrote, so lets just leave it there.
-------------------------------------

I don't wanna be toxic so I'll just stop posting in this thread, but it's laughable that people are arguing that Amir is not a def. center.

What is he? Offensive center? Big man that can pass and space the floor? Why is he in the NBA if not for his ability to switch on smaller guys and protect the paint from the PF spot. It doesn't mean that he is Russell but that's his skill set.

[Homerclease]

We aren't trading Bradley for Noel, and the Sixers aren't trading the Lakers pick for Bradley.

Get a hold of yourselves, men.

Who said anything about the lakers pick? Their own pick isn't even going to be top 10 this year

[Homerclease]

Can we now and forever ban all trade proposals built around Bradley for Noel? Or that don't take contract length into account as a factor?

The Cs would be trading about 120 games of Bradley for about 38 of Noel (not including playoffs). Given that Bradley is currently far more productive than Noel, on what planet does that make sense?

Noel may eventually prove to be a terrific player. Possibly even a difference-maker. But the Cs aren't capped out and don't need to trade for his Bird rights to get that future payoff. They can sign him for money only this summer and retain Bradley.

If they trade Bradley for him now, you're surely worsening the team this year. If they are trading for his future - why? Just sign him a few months from now.

Meanwhile Philly would never trade that pick for Bradley.

Trading Bradley is not a bad idea. If the choice is between paying him or trading him, trading isn't the worst option. But they need to get back a controllable asset. It makes zero sense to trade Bradley in the short term if you're not getting someone back who is better than he is.

Yeah that's not how message boards work. You don't just ban ideas that you disagree with. And either your being willfully dense or your reading comprehension sucks because my trade proposal wasn't a straight up swap. Noel and a top 14 pick for a guy we don't need and who's likely going to walk is pretty damn good return

And you clearly didn't read the part where I said Philly would never part with that pick for Bradley. You've cooked up a deal that is irrational for both sides.

If you want Noel, sign him as a free agent.

Philly, if it wants a quality guard -- perhaps even Avery Bradley -- will have plenty of time and money to sign one in free agency in the time that remains between now and when they get serious about contending. They don't have to give up lottery picks to a division rival to pull it off.

And for God's sake, I'm not seriously suggesting banning anyone's ideas. I'm just imploring you to stop on your own. It feels like there's a new Bradley-for-Noel proposal in here once a day.

I'll post what I want, when I want. Don't like it? Don't read it. It's clear we're talking to a wall here anyway seeing as you don't even understand how restricted free agency works.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Windhorst is reporting that the Cavs would be willing to part with Love for Melo if New York adds more, preferably another big man. Hmmmmm.......

O'Quinn. I feel like LeBron is about to play himself. Both Love and Melo aren't good defenders, but Love is a lot more skilled and efficient when it comes to offensive skills- rebounding, passing and scoring. I'd sneak in to get Love somehow, would be really foolish to keep both Love and Porzingis for the Knicks as their frontcourt will be softer than a tissue.

FFS kids I mapped this out two weeks ago - Noah and Melo to Cleveland, Love to Boston, expirings to New York and as little else as you can give because they'll be thrilled to dump 100 million in committed salary to two aging players on a lottery team. We might give them Zizic and be sad about it if he Marc Gasol-s the deal.

[Celts17Pride]

bradley is always hurt anyway. his value won't get any higher than it is now. it's his time to go. noel would be much more important for the team.

Like IT was hurt and missed 5 games, like Smart has been hurt multiple years and missed a ton of games, like Crowder has been hurt and missed a ton of games........

Pretty poor argument

[Captain_Caveman]

We aren't trading Bradley for Noel, and the Sixers aren't trading the Lakers pick for Bradley.

Get a hold of yourselves, men.

Who said anything about the lakers pick? Their own pick isn't even going to be top 10 this year

Was a post two pages ago.

You even responded to it.

[Celts17Pride]

We aren't trading Bradley for Noel, and the Sixers aren't trading the Lakers pick for Bradley.

Get a hold of yourselves, men.

It's just silly. Don't waste your time

[truth18]

Get a hold of yourselves, men.

RealGM Celtics trade thread motto 2014-???

[Captain_Caveman]

Get a hold of yourselves, men.

RealGM Celtics trade thread motto 2014-???

I hope we get an actual rumor soon. These media/poster driven speculation discussions are just getting worse and worse.

I feel like I haven't seen a rumor in months that would actually benefit our team in the long run.

Keep. The. Picks.

[Darth Celtic]

Noel is restricted. This offseason, some team will offer him a max contract which is something like 4 years at 21m per or more. And the sixers would not match if they had any sense. So, its the sixers so who knows if they have sense or not.

What I do know, a year or 2 later it will be considered a terrible franchise killing contract and that team will wish they could trade him.

[Smog]

Noel is restricted. This offseason, some team will offer him a max contract which is something like 4 years at 21m per or more. And the sixers would not match if they had any sense. So, its the sixers so who knows if they have sense or not.

Beyond that Noel is not signing any deal that ends with him backing up Embiid for four years. Even if Philly was crazy enough to want to max him out, it's not all up to them. He can pull a Greg Monroe if he feels like it.

They pretty much have to trade Noel now.