All Things 2017 Draft

[31to6]

I'm selfishly intrigued to see Ball on tis team. If he could basically be a Rondo that an shoot from deep, and not be ball dominant like Rondo was, then that could be an awesome addition to our team. And he's tall, so can play with both IT and AB...

A Rondo that can shoot, and not be ball-dominant... is that a 6-6 Chris Paul?

PGs so rarely carry teams to titles. I take Jackson over Ball every time.

That doesn't mean Jackson will be offensively dominant enough to carry us either though.

Didn't say he would -- his defense is pretty awesome too -- but if I'm building a team to win titles PG isn't where I want to invest most heavily. Jackson and Brown on the wings could really be something -- you put Lonzo out there as a 3 and he's going to get snapped in half.

[Tiny ball]

I'm selfishly intrigued to see Ball on tis team. If he could basically be a Rondo that an shoot from deep, and not be ball dominant like Rondo was, then that could be an awesome addition to our team. And he's tall, so can play with both IT and AB...

A Rondo that can shoot, and not be ball-dominant... is that a 6-6 Chris Paul?

For some reason I don't like him. His shooting scares me away.

[AlCelticFan]

I leave the talent assessment to Ainge, because I clearly don't know what I'm doing I think whoever we get is going to be great. I was only momentarily excited about Ball simply because of how selflessly he plays -- he'd fit in really well in that way with our guys. But whether he's an overall better talent etc etc, I can't say.

Also having another guy that can drain em from deep would be great for the back court. Always having 2 guards shooting well from 3 at all times.

[31to6]

I leave the talent assessment to Ainge, because I clearly don't know what I'm doing I think whoever we get is going to be great. I was only momentarily excited about Ball simply because of how selflessly he plays -- he'd fit in really well in that way with our guys. But whether he's an overall better talent etc etc, I can't say.

I know the feeling -- if we draft Ball I'll be one of his biggest fans in about two seconds (and start pondering who we should trade). Last couple months I've staked a claim on the Jackson bandwackson, but the main thing is what an awesome year to have a top 4 pick*.

*dear god right, Nets?? lose more you bastards

Edit to add: in a way, though we could obviously use a big, it's enjoyable that any of the top 4 is someone to get almost equally pumped about, and therefore it takes the stress out of it. As long as we don't shock the world and draft Frank the Ntilitank or something, I can imagine nothing but good things coming from this pick.

The Ayton-in-18 campaign, by contrast, promises to be a bit more stressful (though I also like Carter and Bamba).

[sully00]

Who's 4th you guys think in Danny's board? assuming he has Fultz, JJ and Ball as top3, because the pick can fall to 4th, so at the very least you gotta have an idea there...

I'd guess Isaac or Tatum probably, although Monk or DSJ wouldn't surprise me one bit, heck even Bridges.

Tatum for sure, on talent Isaac looks great. I am not super excited about small guards for obvious reasons but I am not Danny Ainge.

The piece I wonder about is Giles how will front offices view him and how Duke utilized him.

[sully00]

I don't get why people are so eager to build pseudo "win now" super teams that likely aren't winning a title. George is a great player, but he's not even top 7-8 in the league. If he's top 10, he probably just barely gets in. You need one of those top 5 guys to win a title, especially with how much talent the best players have around them in this league (Lebron, KD, Curry, Kawhi). Giving up Brown/Nets '18 is too big of a price. That's basically two our of three most valuable assets and potentially two of the top 3 players of our future core. I'd give that up only for a move that makes us the favorites to win a title.

I am fine with adding Paul George but I actually disagree with premise that you need a top 5 guy. You need 3 top 25 guys. George is worth trading for but not giving up 3 or 4 possible top 25 guys to get it done.

I think once the pick is in hand the value of having the number 1 pick in a talented draft will start to bring all of this talk into focus.

[jfs1000d]

I don't get why people are so eager to build pseudo "win now" super teams that likely aren't winning a title. George is a great player, but he's not even top 7-8 in the league. If he's top 10, he probably just barely gets in. You need one of those top 5 guys to win a title, especially with how much talent the best players have around them in this league (Lebron, KD, Curry, Kawhi). Giving up Brown/Nets '18 is too big of a price. That's basically two our of three most valuable assets and potentially two of the top 3 players of our future core. I'd give that up only for a move that makes us the favorites to win a title.

We are already close to cleveland. We add george and add some more size inside, not neccessarily a star, and this team is legit. We are second best team in east as is and we have been hurt most of year. Sometimes, you gotta rralize your window and take a shot. George is legit major win scorer. Add him here, i go to war with that team against anyone in nba.

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[AlCelticFan]

I don't get why people are so eager to build pseudo "win now" super teams that likely aren't winning a title. George is a great player, but he's not even top 7-8 in the league. If he's top 10, he probably just barely gets in. You need one of those top 5 guys to win a title, especially with how much talent the best players have around them in this league (Lebron, KD, Curry, Kawhi). Giving up Brown/Nets '18 is too big of a price. That's basically two our of three most valuable assets and potentially two of the top 3 players of our future core. I'd give that up only for a move that makes us the favorites to win a title.

We are already close to cleveland. We add george and add some more size inside, not neccessarily a star, and this team is legit. We are second best team in east as is and we have been hurt most of year. Sometimes, you gotta rralize your window and take a shot. George is legit major win scorer. Add him here, i go to war with that team against anyone in nba.

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The man yawns his way to 30 points.

[Jingles]

Well, Ainge will be picking high enough so that they will all be in for workouts. This will be interesting.

Heh, I'm guessing LaVar won't let Lonzo workout against the other guards.

[London2Boston]

Well, Ainge will be picking high enough so that they will all be in for workouts. This will be interesting.

Heh, I'm guessing LaVar won't let Lonzo workout against the other guards.

Why not? Doesn't he think his son would beat Curry 1v1? He will probably believe Lonzo would destroy them all and push him to do it.

[Jingles]

Well, Ainge will be picking high enough so that they will all be in for workouts. This will be interesting.

Heh, I'm guessing LaVar won't let Lonzo workout against the other guards.

Who not? Doesn't he think his son would beat Curry 1v1? He will probably believe Lonzo would destroy them all and push him to do it.

We'll see. Big mouths have a habit of backing down before they have the chance to be proven wrong.

Hate that I even have to talk about a player's dad like this, but he's going to be a massive pain even if Lonzo has his head on straight, which in itself would say a lot about the kid.

[KumaJG]

Didn't you do a thread in December mockingly congratulating Ainge for passing on Giannis? Pick one side of the argument at least.

It's a decent little debate if it's framed without snark. Seems half of the All Stars have built off of questionable shots and half have obviously been good shooters from early on. Almost as if there's a bit of nuance to the draft.

Pick a side in what argument?

Danny Ainge as a type of player. De'Aaron Fox & Josh Jackson fits that mold. Players that does a little bit of every thing except shoot.I would be fine with these type of players if we had a shooting coach.

Just a because a player can learn how to shoot don't mean he will develop into a shooter.. Only a handful of players actually fixed their jumpshot.

Josh Jackson can shoot though so I don't understand this argument

No he can't. People just look at the numbers and be like "He is a good shooter". Numbers are the last thing you look at because you are dealing with inferior competition. Jackson have Smart old funky ass mechanics(Big dips, variable landing).


I wiped out Johnathan Isaac off my list. Hes too soft for my liking.


My top 4 are

Fultz
Ball
Tatum
Jackson

Anyone else not worth talking about

[KumaJG]

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[Kolkmania]

I know folks are fretting about ending up with the 4th pick - a worst case situation to be sure, particularly if you believe there are only 3 tier-one players. But there is a HUGE silver lining if that happens. For us to get stuck at 4th necessarily means that the Lakers will lose their pick this year, as well as a first rounder in 2019. So hopefully the Nets don't choke this huge lead they have and we can all relax on Lottery Day.

How so? Lakers and two other teams could jump the Nets' pick, not that likely though.

In my opinion Markelle Fultz is the only player with superstar potential in this draft class. If the Celtics are unable to draft him, they should seriously consider the option to trade the pick for an established top 20 player imo. Josh Jackson and Lonzo Ball could become elite role players, but they don't have the upside to become the franchise player the Celtics are looking for, too many flaws.

Is a young core of Jaylen Brown/'17 2-4 pick/Ante Zizic/Geurschon Yabusele/Terry Rozier worth investing in? That's a legitimate question, because you can't develop all these ~20 year olds, giving them 20 MPG and expect the team to compete at the same time. Next year could be an extraordinary situation because it's the last year of IT/Bradley/Smart contracts. Adding an established player like Paul George or Jimmy Butler would make this team crazy deep and flexible next year. Tough decision to make.

[greenroom31]

In my opinion Markelle Fultz is the only player with superstar potential in this draft class. If the Celtics are unable to draft him, they should seriously consider the option to trade the pick for an established top 20 player imo. Josh Jackson and Lonzo Ball could become elite role players, but they don't have the upside to become the franchise player the Celtics are looking for, too many flaws.

Sorry but that's crazy to say... you could make the case that he has the HIGHEST superstar potential, but there are guys littered throughout the league who became superstars who got drafted outside the top 5 or even lottery. Look at Steve Nash (#15), Steph Curry (#7), Jimmy Butler (#30), Ginobili (#57) and even Isaiah Thomas (#60). There is always the chance to pick a superstar, the risk is just much higher. Jackson, Tatum, Fox, Monk, and more all have superstar POTENTIAL -- the problem is that they have a lower likelihood of achieving that potential relative to Fultz.

[Kolkmania]

In my opinion Markelle Fultz is the only player with superstar potential in this draft class. If the Celtics are unable to draft him, they should seriously consider the option to trade the pick for an established top 20 player imo. Josh Jackson and Lonzo Ball could become elite role players, but they don't have the upside to become the franchise player the Celtics are looking for, too many flaws.

Sorry but that's crazy to say... you could make the case that he has the HIGHEST superstar potential, but there are guys littered throughout the league who became superstars who got drafted outside the top 5 or even lottery. Look at Steve Nash (#15), Steph Curry (#7), Jimmy Butler (#30), Ginobili (#57) and even Isaiah Thomas (#60). There is always the chance to pick a superstar, the risk is just much higher. Jackson, Tatum, Fox, Monk, and more all have superstar POTENTIAL -- the problem is that they have a lower likelihood of achieving that potential relative to Fultz.

Yeah of course, becoming a superstar within a reasonable likelihood.

I guess Bam Adebayo could become a superstar if he grew another 3 inches, adds the three to his offensive arsenal, learns how to dribble, rebound and defend.

[31to6]

In my opinion Markelle Fultz is the only player with superstar potential in this draft class. If the Celtics are unable to draft him, they should seriously consider the option to trade the pick for an established top 20 player imo. Josh Jackson and Lonzo Ball could become elite role players, but they don't have the upside to become the franchise player the Celtics are looking for, too many flaws.

Sorry but that's crazy to say... you could make the case that he has the HIGHEST superstar potential, but there are guys littered throughout the league who became superstars who got drafted outside the top 5 or even lottery. Look at Steve Nash (#15), Steph Curry (#7), Jimmy Butler (#30), Ginobili (#57) and even Isaiah Thomas (#60). There is always the chance to pick a superstar, the risk is just much higher. Jackson, Tatum, Fox, Monk, and more all have superstar POTENTIAL -- the problem is that they have a lower likelihood of achieving that potential relative to Fultz.

Yeah of course, becoming a superstar within a reasonable likelihood.

I guess Bam Adebayo could become a superstar if he grew another 3 inches, adds the three to his offensive arsenal, learns how to dribble, rebound and defend.

Josh Jackson sure looks like he has a ton of upside -- even reasonable likelihood of superstar potential -- to me.

[Kolkmania]

Sorry but that's crazy to say... you could make the case that he has the HIGHEST superstar potential, but there are guys littered throughout the league who became superstars who got drafted outside the top 5 or even lottery. Look at Steve Nash (#15), Steph Curry (#7), Jimmy Butler (#30), Ginobili (#57) and even Isaiah Thomas (#60). There is always the chance to pick a superstar, the risk is just much higher. Jackson, Tatum, Fox, Monk, and more all have superstar POTENTIAL -- the problem is that they have a lower likelihood of achieving that potential relative to Fultz.

Yeah of course, becoming a superstar within a reasonable likelihood.

I guess Bam Adebayo could become a superstar if he grew another 3 inches, adds the three to his offensive arsenal, learns how to dribble, rebound and defend.

Josh Jackson sure looks like he has a ton of upside -- even reasonable likelihood of superstar potential -- to me.

A lot of people around here do and that's fine. I just have a different opinion.

I think Jackson is a good defender, but not elite. He's not laterally quick enough to defend quick guards, I doubt he'll be able to add enough weight to defend the 4 consistently and his relatively small wingspan limits him in contesting shots and offer weakside help.

He's shooting great from three this season, but I don't buy it all. His shooting form contains so many moving parts, has a low release point, footwork isn't there and his FT% is historically low for a non-big. He's a good dribbler and passer, but he's not good enough to warrant a role as a lead ballhandler.

He does do many little things terrific, so I think he'll become an excellent role player who has a positive impact on both sides on the floor. That's great, but nowhere near superstar category.

[DarkAzcura]

I can't deny that Fultz and Ball are very deserving of the 1 and 2 picks, but part of me is hoping we come away with Tatum or Jackson. You need an elite wing to win championships in the NBA, or at least one that can get you 20 PPG efficiently and in isolation when need be. Between Brown, Tatum or Jackson, and maybe even Hayward in FA, you are giving yourself a good shot at getting that type of player.

I'm really intrigued by Fultz and Ball's talent, but I can't help but think it's not really going to get us much closer to a championship over the next five years. If they pan out, at best it gives us a sideways move and replacement for IT a few years down the road when he declines, which isn't a bad thing at all, but then we would be really depending on Brown to become that 20 PPG type of wing to get us over the top.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Yeah of course, becoming a superstar within a reasonable likelihood.

I guess Bam Adebayo could become a superstar if he grew another 3 inches, adds the three to his offensive arsenal, learns how to dribble, rebound and defend.

Josh Jackson sure looks like he has a ton of upside -- even reasonable likelihood of superstar potential -- to me.

A lot of people around here do and that's fine. I just have a different opinion.

I think Jackson is a good defender, but not elite. He's not laterally quick enough to defend quick guards, I doubt he'll be able to add enough weight to defend the 4 consistently and his relatively small wingspan limits him in contesting shots and offer weakside help.

He's shooting great from three this season, but I don't buy it all. His shooting form contains so many moving parts, has a low release point, footwork isn't there and his FT% is historically low for a non-big. He's a good dribbler and passer, but he's not good enough to warrant a role as a lead ballhandler.

He does do many little things terrific, so I think he'll become an excellent role player who has a positive impact on both sides on the floor. That's great, but nowhere near superstar category.

His jump shot statistically is no worse than Tatum's. His soft touch around the rim is elite.

His FT shot is poor, but it has a hitch in it that he's working through. He's worked with a shooting coach to change his form, and the early returns are promising-- he went from low 50's to start the year to low 60's over the past month and a half. Given an entire offseason to further refine his mechanics, I'm confident he can boost that to the 70's. The critique on his shooting is far overblown.