Draft Lottery Reform & Resting Player Fines, Approved by B of Gov's. 09-28-17 ~ Woj

[ViperGTS]

Brilliant. I think it affects the Lakers pick more than the Nets pick because they will be worse than the Nets anyways.

Danny I think made the right move.

[ParticleMan]

good, flattening the odds helps. but doesn't fully solve the issue.

still like the rule of 7 idea. if you get the #1 pick, next year the highest you can pick is 6. if you get #2, then its 5. #3 is 4. and so on. prevents the multi-year tank strategy like the sixers and several other teams have employed.
the main catch for that is, how do you count picks that you traded for? or traded away?

[Darthlukey]

good, flattening the odds helps. but doesn't fully solve the issue.

still like the rule of 7 idea. if you get the #1 pick, next year the highest you can pick is 6. if you get #2, then its 5. #3 is 4. and so on. prevents the multi-year tank strategy like the sixers and several other teams have employed.
the main catch for that is, how do you count picks that you traded for? or traded away?

Personally, whether the pick is traded or not, the rule should apply. Could make pick swaps more confusing though

[captain green]

So basically we need Lakers to be bad enough this year. Or we get lost in the new lottery. Or will it be better next year? I'm still confused.

[Bar Fight]

Brilliant. I think it affects the Lakers pick more than the Nets pick because they will be worse than the Nets anyways.

Danny I think made the right move.

It doesn't affect the Lakers or Nets pick at all because the new odds don't come into effect until 2019.

[Taget]

It some ways it makes tanking worse. The problem with tanking always has been just how much competition you have to get down to the bottom. Now you don't have to worry about being THE worst team. The bottom is more accessible. It provides more of an incentive for middling teams to tank since you now don't have to fear you won't be able to "keep up" with the next 76ers.

[LuckyLeprechaun]

It some ways it makes tanking worse. The problem with tanking always has been just how much competition you have to get down to the bottom. Now you don't have to worry about being THE worst team. The bottom is more accessible. It provides more of an incentive for middling teams to tank since you now don't have to fear you won't be able to "keep up" with the next 76ers.

Often middling teams aren't eliminated from the playoffs until late March or early April. It's ually too late to tank by then.

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[sully00]

It some ways it makes tanking worse. The problem with tanking always has been just how much competition you have to get down to the bottom. Now you don't have to worry about being THE worst team. The bottom is more accessible. It provides more of an incentive for middling teams to tank since you now don't have to fear you won't be able to "keep up" with the next 76ers.

Tanking is losing on purpose. I have never understood what is so hard to understand about this. You field your team, if it sucks so be it but you field your team. Tanking is deciding to not play a guy or guys because they may cause your team win a game a you are trying to lose on purpose. That is totally unacceptable. What the Sixers did was offensive, they would trade for players better than anyone on their roster and waive them, not because they would take mins from their young players, they were all hurt and they were fielding undrafted FA's, but to lose on purpose. Anything that stops teams from that is a good thing it is essentially the opposite of what sports is all about.

[Captain_Caveman]

So instead of 2-3 teams tanking all year and 4-5 more joining them in the last couple of weeks, it will be 2-3 teams tanking all year and 8-10 more joining them in the last couple of weeks.

[Captain_Caveman]

It got approved today. Nice!!

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An important footnote here is that for the teams 6th and later, the "top 5" odds are actually top 4 odds, as they mathematically cannot move up to 5th (the lottery is now for the top 4 spots, as I understand it). So once you get to 8th-9th worst, you actually have pretty decent odds to move up into the top 4.

[Froob]

I would have shot down all lottery reform unless there’s changes to make the CBA better for small market teams if I were a small market team. That was very dumb of those guys for all voting yes (except for OKC).

[Froob]

So instead of 2-3 teams tanking all year and 4-5 more joining them in the last couple of weeks, it will be 2-3 teams tanking all year and 8-10 more joining them in the last couple of weeks.

Who aside from Philly tanked all last year? That was basically it.

[ParticleMan]

tbh i don't actually mind strategic tanking at the end of the year. it gives bottom teams something to play for, and at least the fans retain interest in the team even if it's to see them lose.

the thing i have trouble with is the multi-year tanking-as-franchise-development strategy. hinkie and philly were the most open about it but far from the first or only team to do this. post-MJ chicago was at least as shameless, but they didn't go around trumpeting about it. there have been many teams since that basically give up on making the playoffs even before the season begins.

i have no problem with a team strategically tanking in the last month or two to get a top-3 pick. but then they shouldn't be allowed to get another top-3 pick the next year.

[Kolkmania]

It some ways it makes tanking worse. The problem with tanking always has been just how much competition you have to get down to the bottom. Now you don't have to worry about being THE worst team. The bottom is more accessible. It provides more of an incentive for middling teams to tank since you now don't have to fear you won't be able to "keep up" with the next 76ers.

Tanking is losing on purpose. I have never understood what is so hard to understand about this. You field your team, if it sucks so be it but you field your team. Tanking is deciding to not play a guy or guys because they may cause your team win a game a you are trying to lose on purpose. That is totally unacceptable. What the Sixers did was offensive, they would trade for players better than anyone on their roster and waive them, not because they would take mins from their young players, they were all hurt and they were fielding undrafted FA's, but to lose on purpose. Anything that stops teams from that is a good thing it is essentially the opposite of what sports is all about.

Which players are you referring to? Also, what is the point of acquiring an aging vet when you're aiming for a championships years down the road? With all those roster opportunities the Sixers actually acquired young and talented FA's in Robert Covington and TJ McConnell, but for every capable player in FA there are 10 players like JaKarr Sampson, Hollis Thompson, Tony Wroten, etc who never took the leap. So those roster spots did provide opportunities for others. The Sixers were bad on purpose, but they had to pay for it which ultimately lead to the interference of Adam Silver.

I don't understand why you think what the Sixers did was unacceptable, but disagree with Taget on the other hand. Personally I think it was just as disgusting what the Suns and Lakers did by sitting down players like Eric Bledsoe and playing Tyler Ennis more minutes than De'Angelo Russell. With the new draft concept more teams will evaluate in March and decide to join the race for the bottom since the odds are really good.

[Kolkmania]

So instead of 2-3 teams tanking all year and 4-5 more joining them in the last couple of weeks, it will be 2-3 teams tanking all year and 8-10 more joining them in the last couple of weeks.

Who aside from Philly tanked all last year? That was basically it.

Wait what, Philly tanked last year?

I would have shot down all lottery reform unless there’s changes to make the CBA better for small market teams if I were a small market team. That was very dumb of those guys for all voting yes (except for OKC).

Agree. The biggest problem in the NBA is the difficulty of acquiring a superstar. Basketball is a 5-on-5 game and thus quality is far more superior than quantity, thus superstar are required to win a championship.

The problem is not the lottery or tanking itself, it's the impossibility of acquiring a superstar otherwise. If OKC loses Westbrook, George and Anthony this summer than they HAVE to get to the bottom of the league to have a shot at a top 10 player.

RFA, super-max extensions and 25, 30 and 35% contracts make a top 10 player immensely valuable and easily to retain.

[Froob]

So instead of 2-3 teams tanking all year and 4-5 more joining them in the last couple of weeks, it will be 2-3 teams tanking all year and 8-10 more joining them in the last couple of weeks.

Who aside from Philly tanked all last year? That was basically it.

Wait what, Philly tanked last year?

I would have shot down all lottery reform unless there’s changes to make the CBA better for small market teams if I were a small market team. That was very dumb of those guys for all voting yes (except for OKC).

Agree. The biggest problem in the NBA is the difficulty of acquiring a superstar. Basketball is a 5-on-5 game and thus quality is far more superior than quantity, thus superstar are required to win a championship.

The problem is not the lottery or tanking itself, it's the impossibility of acquiring a superstar otherwise. If OKC loses Westbrook, George and Anthony this summer than they HAVE to get to the bottom of the league to have a shot at a top 10 player.

RFA, super-max extensions and 25, 30 and 35% contracts make a top 10 player immensely valuable and easily to retain.

Philly sorta did, they didn’t add any vets but it wasn’t their biggest tank job. All this talk about all these teams tanking but, I can’t point to any blantant tank jobs from day one. Phoenix didn’t, LA didn't, Orlando didn't, Brooklyn didn't.

Nailed the second part there, hard cap with no max is the best solution but, the non superstars in the union won’t go for it because they are the majority and they’d lose a lot of dough but, something like you suggested is what should be in play.

It’s not like this change is a big deal and I get flattening the odds so top 3-4 are about the same but, why blow all your leverage and get nothing in return? Good luck trying to get something back later when you have nothing to negotiate with. I bet they can ban together to get lottery reform shot down, but they certainly can’t all ban together to get a reform to help themselves.

[radcot]

So if Sac finishes in the bottom 3 in 2019, they now have less of a chance of getting the number 1. That's a good thing for us since the pick is top 1 protected. On the other hand, they have considerably greater odds of finishing with a lower -- even much lower -- pick than they might have before. That's obviously not so good for us. Here's hoping LA finishes 2-5!

[Banks2Pierce]

So if Sac finishes in the bottom 3 in 2019, they now have less of a chance of getting the number 1. That's a good thing for us since the pick is top 1 protected. On the other hand, they have considerably greater odds of finishing with a lower -- even much lower -- pick than they might have before. That's obviously not so good for us. Here's hoping LA finishes 2-5!

Think you'd have to put them as just as likely for 4-8 as 1-3 so it is still up in the air whether this is good or bad for the Sacramento pick. I see the Memphis pick as even more cloudy now.

[Gant]

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[Crossy2008]

The only thing that will matter is the results of the lottery. There are going to be a lot of unhappy people no matter what happens. Plus there are essentially two lotteries every year. One is with the ping pong balls and the other is with the talent available in the draft. There has never been a draft where the players were selected in order of their success in the league.

Also, players don't generally tank. If Philly had a healthy Embiid over the past few seasons they probably win a lot more games. Had Philly drafted two studs instead of Noel and Okafor they probably don't tank. It's hard to build a good team, and it requires a great deal of skill and preparation in upper management, as well as a great deal of luck.

The most important thing to happen this offseason was stretching the season out. I like the lottery changes because it makes it more interesting. Adding that fourth lottery slot is a massive change. Still, there are going to be drafts where the best player taken was selected outside the top 5. There are going to be second and third round picks (eventually) that become a top 3 player from their draft.

The most important change to come will be when teams can draft top players and stash them in the G-League for a year or two. A true farm system will open more roster spots for polished vets, and create a better overall product.