I miss Fournier AOS: PHI 106, BOS 96 (25-26)

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Just a lost season. Losing Hayward sucked. I get that we have the most games lost to Covid health and safety protocols. I understand that our best guys are also under 25 too. But man, the effort has been bad. Finding new ways to lose games by big margins is also jarring to me. It seems like we are trending towards a loss in the play-in game. And if I’m going to be honest with you, at this point, I’d be satisfied with lasting 6-7 games in the first round. That’s how much I’ve lowered my expectations for this year.

I actually don't understand how this "games lost because of covid" are calculated. If Thompson and Langford are counted then that excuse can be thrown out of the window.

Why?

[jmr07019]

Boston's rebuild has often been compared to Philly's. What is not mentioned often is the age difference between the star players. Brown and Simmons are about the same age. Tatum just turned 23 while Embiid just turned 27. Last night it was clear that Embiid was the best player on the court.

Philly has not been a serious contender when Embiid was in his early twenties. The one exception was when they had 29 year old Butler leading the way. Now that Embiid has leveled up and entered his prime they are a different team.

Tatum is not ready to lead the Celtics to the title. We aren't even close to Philly let alone Brooklyn, Milwaukee or LA. Which scenario gives us a better chance at retaining Tatum on his next contract?

Scenario A - we win a title in the next 3 years but the team is old and thin as Tatum enters FA
Scenario B - no title and some struggles the next 3 years but we offer Tatum the best chance to win a title as he enters FA

For me it is scenario B easily. I also think scenario A is pretty unlikely. Patience. I think Ainge and management see this too hence trading Theis away.

[aporel18]

We are just too big, too talented, too skilled, and Doc is just a lot better coach than Opie Taylor.

[makubesu]

Romeo looked really solid out there tonight, maybe that was the silver lining. I see people complaining about turnovers, but that was just great defense by Philadelphia. When Tacko is your best weapon against Embiid, you know you’re in for a smack down.

[Lester Freamon]

It's time to move on, we'll never get it done with this core. In the offseason we gotta go get KAT (Brown, Timelord and a 1st rounder or something like that) and then resign Fournier.

Starting V: Kemba, Smart, Fournier, Tatum, KAT

Bench: a bunch of crap, gotta do something about that too

Inviato dal mio Redmi 7A utilizzando Tapatalk

If things go south this season, i’m done with Kemba and Smart. Both are one-sided players.

I hear you, and maybe DA could work something out dealing Smart, but there's no market for Kemba Walker (should've signed Rozier for half the price, **** me). I think the top priority should be acquiring an actual top 5 in his role - and KAT would be one, at least statistically - and only after that DA should concentrate on other minor moves like dealing Smart and fortifying the bench. We need a shake up at the core of this team.

[Curmudgeon]

I turned it off after the last few minutes of the second quarter. I have better things to do.

[Fantaxp7]

This team is broken. I'd be OK with a loss if Tatum and Brown played like they did earlier this season. I don't get it the rest of the team should have off/sucky nights often but those two should be looking like the all stars they are....just broken.

[CelticsLV]

Just a lost season. Losing Hayward sucked. I get that we have the most games lost to Covid health and safety protocols. I understand that our best guys are also under 25 too. But man, the effort has been bad. Finding new ways to lose games by big margins is also jarring to me. It seems like we are trending towards a loss in the play-in game. And if I’m going to be honest with you, at this point, I’d be satisfied with lasting 6-7 games in the first round. That’s how much I’ve lowered my expectations for this year.

I actually don't understand how this "games lost because of covid" are calculated. If Thompson and Langford are counted then that excuse can be thrown out of the window.

Why?

Because I would hardly count them as irreplaceable contributors without who Celtics can't win games. I understand if you count the days missed by your top players. There are probably other bums counted in.

[aussie_pride]

It's time to move on, we'll never get it done with this core. In the offseason we gotta go get KAT (Brown, Timelord and a 1st rounder or something like that) and then resign Fournier.

Starting V: Kemba, Smart, Fournier, Tatum, KAT

Bench: a bunch of crap, gotta do something about that too

Inviato dal mio Redmi 7A utilizzando Tapatalk

If things go south this season, i’m done with Kemba and Smart. Both are one-sided players.

I hear you, and maybe DA could work something out dealing Smart, but there's no market for Kemba Walker (should've signed Rozier for half the price, **** me). I think the top priority should be acquiring an actual top 5 in his role - and KAT would be one, at least statistically - and only after that DA should concentrate on other minor moves like dealing Smart and fortifying the bench. We need a shake up at the core of this team.

Is there any scenario in which we can stick with what we have and develop our existing assets? There seems to be this view around the NBA that players cannot be improved and that you need to trade your way to a championship.

[philing00]

Kornet, who can’t even get minutes with Detroit, comes straight in and looks automatically better than Semi, Grant and half our clown bench.
Why isn’t Romeo getting all of Semis minutes and more of Grants
Why is Tacko playing and not Wagner? At least Wagner can shoot the 3.

[zoyathedestroya]

Forget about being a two-way player. Kemba is currently a 0-way player. Worst he's ever looked since before he became an All-Star. He has one elite offensive skill right now -- making free throws, but doesn't get to the line nearly enough.

[aussie_pride]

I actually don't understand how this "games lost because of covid" are calculated. If Thompson and Langford are counted then that excuse can be thrown out of the window.

Why?

Because I would hardly count them as irreplaceable contributors without who Celtics can't win games. I understand if you count the days missed by your top players. There are probably other bums counted in.

Losing Gordon Hayward is a big reason why we are less successful this season. Depending on the way you want to set up your team, you can literally run your entire offence through him because he makes correct basketball plays and moves the ball. On top of that he is a natural team player without an ego.

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

Semi and Grant screwing up again in all of these. Bums.

[philing00]

Woah! Ok hovering at 25!
My point is he needs to score 40 at times if needed to win, but he somehow can’t.

Okay. Better argument.

He does. Here's my rebuttal to that. He's not as good yet now, as he will be in a couple of years. He consistently sees doubles and Danny has not provided him with the supporting cast to make other teams pay for doing so, so it will continue. It would be better if he was surrounded by more veteran players. He probably needs to get more shots. But Jaylen and Kemba syohon off some of the shots he could take.

Tatum does not see that may doubles at all! The problem with Tatum is that is he is in love with his step back and fadeaway jump shots. Teams know that these are his go to moves and defend it accordingly. It also doesn't help that he takes a lot of these shots from long range! Fadeaway and step back shots are hard enough to take when you have a bit of space let alone when they are contest and from three. He should only be really taking these shots sporadically or to catch defenders off-guard.

In terms of the supporting cast, what more could he want? Kemba is a 4 x All Star and Jaylen Brown is in the top tier of two way players in the NBA. Furthermore, Kemba has a great personality and is completely selfless in moving the ball. If anything, Kemba should probably be taking the ball out of Tatum's hands more! People on here have been mentioning Bradly Beal as a trade option. Adding him would be an unmitigated disaster as he in that category of players who is going to want and need shots or there will be locker room issues.

Yeh, Tatum craps his pants when he gets doubled. No need for the opposition to game plan for him. He is getting more success scoring on drives though. But he settles way too much for the step back. If he wasn’t such an elite shooter, he’d be an average player.
Brown is a much more rounded offensive player, but defensively half the time he looks like he’s dragging a ball and chain.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

I actually don't understand how this "games lost because of covid" are calculated. If Thompson and Langford are counted then that excuse can be thrown out of the window.

Why?

Because I would hardly count them as irreplaceable contributors without who Celtics can't win games. I understand if you count the days missed by your top players. There are probably other bums counted in.

We had Tacko playing in the first half last night. Thompson sucks, but he sucks less than Tacko.

[Lester Freamon]

If things go south this season, i’m done with Kemba and Smart. Both are one-sided players.

I hear you, and maybe DA could work something out dealing Smart, but there's no market for Kemba Walker (should've signed Rozier for half the price, **** me). I think the top priority should be acquiring an actual top 5 in his role - and KAT would be one, at least statistically - and only after that DA should concentrate on other minor moves like dealing Smart and fortifying the bench. We need a shake up at the core of this team.

Is there any scenario in which we can stick with what we have and develop our existing assets? There seems to be this view around the NBA that players cannot be improved and that you need to trade your way to a championship.

Would love to, if they were actually developing rather than the opposite. That said, I don't believe there's a scenario in which the Jays bring you a championship, no matter how further they develop or how you tweak the roster around them. I think Tatum needs a top 5 center alonside him - and a few other minor roster tweaks, yes - an then we can really talk championship.

[aussie_pride]

Okay. Better argument.

He does. Here's my rebuttal to that. He's not as good yet now, as he will be in a couple of years. He consistently sees doubles and Danny has not provided him with the supporting cast to make other teams pay for doing so, so it will continue. It would be better if he was surrounded by more veteran players. He probably needs to get more shots. But Jaylen and Kemba syohon off some of the shots he could take.

Tatum does not see that may doubles at all! The problem with Tatum is that is he is in love with his step back and fadeaway jump shots. Teams know that these are his go to moves and defend it accordingly. It also doesn't help that he takes a lot of these shots from long range! Fadeaway and step back shots are hard enough to take when you have a bit of space let alone when they are contest and from three. He should only be really taking these shots sporadically or to catch defenders off-guard.

In terms of the supporting cast, what more could he want? Kemba is a 4 x All Star and Jaylen Brown is in the top tier of two way players in the NBA. Furthermore, Kemba has a great personality and is completely selfless in moving the ball. If anything, Kemba should probably be taking the ball out of Tatum's hands more! People on here have been mentioning Bradly Beal as a trade option. Adding him would be an unmitigated disaster as he in that category of players who is going to want and need shots or there will be locker room issues.

Yeh, Tatum craps his pants when he gets doubled. No need for the opposition to game plan for him. He is getting more success scoring on drives though. But he settles way too much for the step back. If he wasn’t such an elite shooter, he’d be an average player.
Brown is a much more rounded offensive player, but defensively half the time he looks like he’s dragging a ball and chain.

Bang on the money with the comment about his drives. I seriously do not understand why he does not do that more. He is actually excellent at finishing through contact; his strength is really underrated.

The shooting side of the game is really frustrating. Unfortunately, the blame has to lie with Brad Stevens on this. I cannot for the life of me figure why he does not run more offensive sets that result in spot up shots for the team, especially considering we like to play three ball and we have technically proficient shooters. At present we are 8th in the league for spot up shot FG% but we are 24th in the league for spot up shot frequency. Can you imagine how many more points we would score and results we would get if continued to run offense that generated that shot type? Its ridiculous!

[aussie_pride]

I hear you, and maybe DA could work something out dealing Smart, but there's no market for Kemba Walker (should've signed Rozier for half the price, **** me). I think the top priority should be acquiring an actual top 5 in his role - and KAT would be one, at least statistically - and only after that DA should concentrate on other minor moves like dealing Smart and fortifying the bench. We need a shake up at the core of this team.

Is there any scenario in which we can stick with what we have and develop our existing assets? There seems to be this view around the NBA that players cannot be improved and that you need to trade your way to a championship.

Would love to, if they were actually developing rather than the opposite. That said, I don't believe there's a scenario in which the Jays bring you a championship, no matter how further they develop or how you tweak the roster around them. I think Tatum needs a top 5 center alonside him - and a few other minor roster tweaks, yes - an then we can really talk championship.

This season has been particularly bad but to be fair to Brad, he does have a reputation of making players better. Robert Williams, Tatum, Brown, Rozier, Isaiah Thomas and Al Horford just to name a few have all improved under him. Hayward didn't exactly regress; he became maligned because of Tatum and Brown. I do not think Kemba has declined either, despite the hate that he seems to get around here. Remember, the guy is still not playing back to backs after recovering from knee surgery.

[BK_2020]

All I saw of Kornet was a tall dude with no leg strength literally getting moved around by Embiid. No idea what makes him so good in people's eyes.

[aussie_pride]

All I saw of Kornet was a tall dude with no leg strength literally getting moved around by Embiid. No idea what makes people so good in people's eyes.

I do agree the guy has the physique of an accountant and needs to hit the gym. However, if you look at his shot his mechanics are fundamentally sound. The other thing is that he does put himself about in terms of hustle and positioning for rebounds.